[new-nickname-zanovo]

It is hard to read things so unfortunate in a forum.

Tell me, can I build a Christian church in Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia or Nigeria ...? Can a European Christian walk with a gold cross on the neck or clothes or Christian symbols in the streets of Algeria, Egypt, Syria or Iraq? Can a Christian eat pork or drink scotch in a bar of a Muslim country? It is very easy to come illegally to Europe and when you're here ask for your religion the same rights enjoyed by Christians. Where is the reciprocity? Muslims in Europe can not ask what they deny other religions in their country of origin.

btw, there are thousands of Christian churches (alongside cathedrals, convents and monasteries) in Islamic countries, please just check this thread out, it's pretty eye-opening. Theyre not all like Saudi Arabia (that forbids them - though the Saudi king did recently meet with the Pope to discuss building a major church there):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=970006



.

[K0aM7urg]

Some highlights of churches in Muslim countries of over 90 percent

Coptic Cathedral Cairo



St Mark's Cathedral, Cairo



All Saint's Anglican, Cairo



Orthodox cathedral, Cairo



Orthodox Easter at the Holy See of Cairo





St Michael Aswan Cathedral



St Bishoy Monastery



St Catherine Monastery



Moqattan Coptic Church of the Rocks




St Mark Cathedral, Alexandria



Church of the Annunciation, Alexandria



Alexandria Cathedral, and other major Alexandrine churches

,


Algiers Cathedral



Cathedrale Notre Dame d'Afrique, Algiers



Cathedrale de Sacre Couer, Algiers





Basilica of St Augustin d'Hippone, Annaba, Algeria





Basilica of Santa Cruz, Oran, Algeria



Church of Mostaganem, Algeria







St Stephanos Cathedral, Jolffa, Iran



Vank Cathedral, Esfahan, Iran






St Sarkis Cathedral, Tehran





St Thaddeus, Markku, Iran





Christmas in Tehran








main Christian Churches of Iran are:
Armenian Apostolic Church of Iran
Assyrian Church of the East of Iran
Chaldean Catholic Church of Iran
various Protestant denominations, most important of which are:
Presbyterian, including the Assyrian Evangelical Church
Jama'at-e Rabbani (the Iranian Assemblies of God churches)
and the Anglican Church of Iran.


our Lady of the Rosary, Doha, Qatar





Orthodox Coptic Church, Abu Dhabi, UAE



Catholic Cathedral, Kuwait





St Paul Cathedral, Rabat, Morocco





Sacre Couer Cathedral, Casablanca



Notre Dame Cathedral, Casablanca



Tangier Cathedral



Tangier Catholic Church



San Bartoleme, Asilah, Morocco



St Patrick's Cathedral, Pakistan



Catholic Cathedral, Jakarta



Church of Yogjakarta, Indonesia



Mogadishu RC Cathedral, Somalia



Basilica of St Paul, Beirut





Armenian catholic Cathedral, Beirut



Our Lady of Lebanon Shrine and Basilica, Harissa





St Anthony of Padua, Istanbul



St Stephen Bulgarian Church, Istanbul





Holy Trinity, Istanbul

[gMUVgw71]

Syria


















Malloula shrine


Monastery of Saidnaya

...

Jordan

Iraq

$

[mygalinasoo]

^ These photos can give a false image that all is well for Christians in these countries. It is often not. Look into Ahmadinejad's Iran for starters.

Oh.... and those Churches in Cairo are particularly lovely:

"While the Egyptian government does not have a policy to persecute Christians, it discriminates against them and hampers their freedom of worship. Its agencies sporadically persecute Muslim converts to Christianity. The government enforces Hamayouni Decree restrictions on building or repairing churches. These same restrictions, however, do not apply to mosques.

"The government has effectively restricted Christians from senior government, diplomatic, military, and educational positions, and there has been increasing discrimination in the private sector. The government subsidizes media which attack Christianity and restricts Christians access to the state-controlled media."

"In Egypt the government does not officially recognize conversions from Islam to Christianity; because certain interfaith marriages are not allowed either, this prevents marriages between converts to Christianity and those born in Christian communities, and also results in the children of Christian converts being classified as Muslims and given a Muslim education. The government also applies religiously-discriminatory laws and practices concerning clergy salaries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

--

[johnteriz]

btw, there are thousands of Christian churches (alongside cathedrals, convents and monasteries) in Islamic countries, please just check this thread out, it's pretty eye-opening. Theyre not all like Saudi Arabia (that forbids them):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=970006

Happy New Year Zupermaus. It is always a pleasure to meet you again in WNY-F. You're a great BULLFIGHTER to me,... the best in this BULLRING called WNY-F !!!

Viva ZUPERMAUS !!!,
oOOOoooleeee!!!, oOOOOoooleeee !!!


Yes, I Know about these churchs. I've written about of many churchs in Muslim countries in WNY-F, in the thread of "Religious Architecture".

But now the question is different to me: we are talking about Marseille and the problems of muslims in the Southern of Europe.

I think MidtownGuy don't know what he says, because he's the tipycal american boy that talk about this problems without intelligence.

For example, this is the latest project to build a Great Mosque in Spain. It has a tiny minaret of 330 meters high,... you Know: a small store with a dirty chimney, isn't it?,... because Spaniards (we are Europeans, aren't we?...) are most racists (maybe not multiculturals) than americans,... like says the "unforgettable" MidtownGuy.

[Knqzjbmf]

^yep, London's also doing something major - currently in plans to build the 'Mega Mosque' for 40,000, and capacity up to 70,000 with surrounding buildings during religious festivals. Its right next to the Olympic site, and the new CBD at Stratford. Its controversial of course, not just the fact it will supplant all the major cathedrals as the religious centre of the city, but mostly due to the increased volume of traffic/ people etc in the area (many of the areas residents, many of whom are Muslim, are against it due to this).

Of course a mega-cathedral is also in the plans for the mostly Anglican African community, so this too may be supplanted in turn.

[valiumcheepval]

okie dokey ...

Since i started this thread I'm requesting that we get back on track -- which can include discussion of the Grand Mosque or other mosques in Europe (but not so much the other stuff).

Cordoba has an incredible mosque -- the Great Mosque of Cordoba -- which dates back to ~ 785 AD.

When I saw it back in the early 90s I had the place to myself (but then I had all sorts of fantastic places to myself, as I was traveling during the midst of the World Cup and wherever I went -- whether in Italy, Spain or Portugal -- everyone seemed to be sitting in front of a television set).





More photos at the ArchNet Digital Library - Great Mosque of Cordoba

Since 1236 is a Catholic Cathedral. The owner is Catholic Church (Diocese of Córdoba). Muslims are forbidden to pray inside. Today the former Great Mosque of Cordoba and the Cathedral of Santa María (built inside) are a World Heritage Site (UNESCO).

[neirty]

^yep, London's also doing something major - currently in plans to build the 'Mega Mosque' for 40,000, and capacity up to 70,000 with surrounding buildings during religious festivals. Its right next to the Olympic site, and the new CBD at Stratford. Its controversial of course, not just the fact it will supplant all the major cathedrals as the religious centre of the city, but mostly due to the increased volume of traffic/ people etc in the area (many of the areas residents, many of whom are Muslim, are against it due to this).

Of course a mega-cathedral is also in the plans for the mostly Anglican African community, so this too may be supplanted in turn.

In Spain there have been problems in building large mosques. The reason is always the same: Muslims in Spain are mostly people from Morocco and Algeria for training low (they often work in greenhouse collecting tomato crops, lettuce or flowers) and many are marginal (dedicated to crime).

The Spanish when the City Council tells them in his district wants to build a mosque, they do not want it because they know that then the district could become a Muslim ghetto.

It's a eternal problem.

[Greapyjeory]

Since 1236 is a Catholic Cathedral. The owner is Catholic Church (Diocese of Córdoba).

I didn't know that. No wonder it was empty when I went there.

[KkJvrG4d]

In London its not so much a problem as its very hard to build any kind of 'ghetto' due to vertiginous house prices and speculating (not for want of trying Im sure Londoners would create them if given half a chance), and traditional mixing of income types in housing - to this day all new developments, even the luxury ones have by law to devote 30-50% of itself to affordable homes. Meanwhile poor rundown areas are now being colonised by the middle classes unable to afford the rip-off prices demanded for in the city.

Also the Muslims in London have relatively low crime rates, even though some are very poor- some areas of the city such as Brick Lane and Whitechapel are some of the poorest, but adversely some of the safest. The word on the street for property buyers keen to get on the ladder is to try and move into areas mixed with traditional Muslim or West African communities, as the prices are cheap and the crime is low - the kind of areas attracting artists and creatives, and thus regeneration. Neighbourhoods such as Whitechapel, Hoxton (both with large Bangladeshi and Somali communities), Deptford (West African), Hackney (West African), Dalston (Turkish, Kurdish), are all now the coolest areas in the capital.

Nb In cairo its also a phenomenon, the Old City, Islamic Cairo is one of the worlds poorest areas, yet strangely one of the safest. Urbanists studying the phenomenon point toward the proximity of housing (any crime will almost always have a witness), combined with traditional values. A plan to build a new park nearby has even led to calls that this will increase the crime rate as it will open up the area.

...anyway Im a bit off track again, back to topic...