[deermealec]

I quite agree - this guy is is very confussed!

Let's leave it here and move on.

How can we leave it though when in the previous sentence you note me as being "confused" when clearly I have a larger grasp over the socio-political-economic factors within the UK and have clearly deconstructed all your points systematically without hesitation or requirement to fabricate points to somehow uphold my idea.

I didn't study several years of Government & Politics to listen to tripe from individuals like yourself that claim to be liberal but act in their own interests.

[Golotop]

Press Centre-Transport for London
Press release
18 February 2005

Two years on - congestion cut, more reliable buses, and £170million to invest in London’s transport system

Congestion has been cut, buses are quicker and more reliable and the West End continues to do well since the introduction of the congestion charge two years ago.

At the start of the scheme the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, called on commentators and detractors to give the scheme two years before deciding whether the scheme was a success or failure.

The Mayor said: “Two years on and the congestion charge continues to be a success and prove the cynics wrong. Congestion in the zone is down by 30 per cent, bus services are improved and pollution has been cut. London’s West End is doing well, with figures from the Society of London Theatre showing that theatres took their best ever revenue in 2004 and achieved their second best audience numbers since records began in the 1980s.

“After years of chronic congestion, central London is moving again. The scheme is clearly working and the majority of Londoners now support it.”

Michèle Dix, Director of the Congestion Charge, said,

“The scheme’s detractors predicted chaos and confusion, and that London would be turned into a ghost town. Two years on and the reality is that congestion has been cut, buses are quicker and far more reliable, businesses are doing well, more people are entering the zone, and London is a far nicer place to work, live and visit.”

Within the charging zone conditions have remained stable since the start of the scheme:

traffic has been reduced by 15%
congestion has been reduced by 30%
accident rates have fallen by up to 5% due to congestion charging
reduction of 12% in emissions of NOx and PM10 from road traffic within the zone
increased traffic speeds
excess waiting time for buses reduced by 45% within the zone
60% reduction in disruption to bus services
retail footfall is now outperforming the rest of the UK and is returning to a pattern of year-on-year growth
the charge has had no identifiable effect on the number of business starting up or closing down within the zone compared to the rest of London
no effect on property prices
the Society of London Theatre has indicated that the congestion charge does not seem to have affected businesses in the West End area generally
£170 million pounds will be raised by the end of the financial year to invest in London’s transport system (2003/4 - £80million, 2004/5 - projected net revenue of £90million).


Many improvements have been made to the scheme since its introduction including:

lowering the threshold of the congestion charging fleet schemes from 25 vehicles to 10
making the three charging days that fall between Christmas Day and New Year's Day 'non-charging' days
extending the SMS text messaging facility
allowing payment by additional credit and debit card types; revising the definition of resident's vehicles
removing the financial criteria for the National Health Service patients' reimbursement scheme
improvements to the 100 percent discount for registered holders of Blue Badges.


TfL is also currently consulting on the following changes:

to raise the charge from £5 per charging day to £8 per charging day for those not on fleet schemes;
to raise the charge from £5.50 per charging day to £7 for vehicles on the automated fleet scheme; and from £5 per charging day to £7 for vehicles on the notification fleet scheme;
to discount monthly and annual charges by 15 percent;
to reduce a number of administrative charges.


TfL is also progressing further measures to make the charge easier to pay, including:

an enhanced website
more petrol stations accepting payment
an enhanced public information on payment by SMS
an information leaflet to be sent to 36 million households across the UK as part of DVLA correspondence.

* * *

Seems like a natural for Manhattan, which has fewer than 20 automobile access points.

[Borrinas]

individuals like yourself that claim to be liberal but act in their own interests.

And whose interest do true liberals act in?

[OccumCymn]

It doesn't matter what ideology it is, power is always the goal. All ideologies have different pathways towards achieving or attaining this goal, individually or collectively.

In other words a bad liberal can be as bad as a bad socialist or bad conservative. You can also have though good liberals, good socialists and good conservatives. Marksix is a bad liberal who is almost giving the impression of making liberals in Britain look like deluded crazed individuals. He also doesn't seem capable of grasping the workings of British politics, as is evident from all the posts here which have torn apart his factless and foundless argument.

[BriKevin]

sorry for being a bad liberal - i do try

here's another "fact" for you; Dr John Reid, minister that WAS in charge of road policy/road charging scheme is now head of the discredited home office and more to the point, responsible for implementing the sinsiter ID card and database state which he enthusiastically promotes.

In 1973 Dr John Reid, a former trade union leader, at the height of the cold war, little more than ten years after the Cuban missile crisis and witnessing the crushing of the Hungarian uprising by soviet forces, three years after Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was awared the Nobel literature prize for such works as "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" and "Gulag Archipelago" joined the communist party.

When he tells us there is no sinister intent behind the Labour Party's ID card and surveillence state and that "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" one might ponder if the fellow inmates of Solzhenitsyn and all of the current inmates of Britain's and America's gulags had anything to hide and anything to fear.

[Uciaucrx]

I think you'll find that a gulag is a forced labour camp; Britain has no such thing.

[Misebeita]

I think you'll find that a gulag is a forced labour camp; Britain has no such thing.

Literally, the word GULAG is an acronym, meaning Glavnoe Upravlenie Lagerei, or Main Camp Administration. Over time, the word "Gulag" has also come to signify not only the administration of the concentration camps but also the system of Soviet slave labour itself, in all its forms and varieties. It was the branch of the State Security that operated the penal system of forced labour camps and associated detention and transit camps and prisons. While these camps housed criminals of all types, the Gulag system is primarily known as a place for political prisoners and as a mechanism for repressing political opposition to the Soviet state. It imprisoned millions. Dr John Reid MP was fully aware of all of this when in 1973 he decided that this was the ideology for him and he joined the communist party. He is now the second most powerful politician in the UK and responsible for imposing ID cards and the database state.

More broadly, "Gulag" has come to mean the Soviet repressive system itself, the set of procedures that prisoners once called the "meat-grinder": the arrests, the interrogations, the transport in unheated cattle cars, the forced labour, the destruction of families, the years spent in exile, the early and unnecessary deaths. This for me, has resonances with the current “extraordinary rendition” and the series of named and suspected “detention” camps operated by the UK and US scattered, archipelago like, throughout the world.

The connection between soviet gulags and congestion charging may seem a tenuous one; license plates on UK vehicles are to be equipped with RFID chips which can be read by sensors from a distance of 100 metres http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...getchipped.htm
But then so will each and every individual via ID cards. Behind both are vast government databases monitoring in minute detail, every aspect of the individuals life of which their vehicle movements are but one component. From these databases, government is able to surveil and control individuals. On TV there are government adverts which subtly threatens us with dark images and sinister music, giving the impression that even if you simply forget to renew your license or tax you are counted among the criminals and you will be treated as one. Taking their cue from stasi like operations, they even encourage us to shop each other in if we have any suspicions. "Turn in your friends and family, great prizes to be won!" The government maintains a database on who owns a TV, soon that will include computers and mobile telephones. Retailers are already required to furnish this information to the government.

If you guys in America think this far-fetched, last week the United Kingdom Identity and Passport Service (UKIPS) announced the location of the 69 interrogation centres around the country that will be used to interview first time passport applicants and later enrol people onto the National Identity Register(NIR). Government is looking all the time at what other kinds of data can be included to serveil us on top of the 40 data publicly announced including:-

# Medical records
# Tax details
# Details of your children - to assist “tracing” them
# Council tax debt
# Confirming whether or not you have voted

There was a 1960's cult series “The Prisoner”, in which a newly designated authority figure demand the character of Patrick McGoohan hand over information. The program was an attempt at forewarning against the accelerating relationship between science, technology, and tyranny, and how it would be used to enslave a docile population concerned only with mindlessness and convenience.

The Village was a beautiful yet sinister enclave where residents were forcibly placed, kept and watched 24 hours a day by camera surveillance systems. The hierarchy of power was represented by a glowing pyramid with an all-seeing eye (check your dollar bill! lol) in the centre of The Village control room.

Just as McGoohan was referred to as a number (six) and not a man in the village, so too will we get our own number with our ID card.

The climax of the series saw McGoohan escape the prison of The Village and re-enter society only to discover that society itself was the prison and that, in his words, "freedom is a myth." Here we are 40 years on and it seems fiction has been surpassed by reality. A “virtual gulag”.

[enentique]

Just as McGoohan was referred to as a number (six) and not a man in the village, so too will we get our own number with our ID card.
A “virtual gulag”.

Permit me to digress for a brief question! Is the McGoohan charactor the reason for the (six) in 'Marksix' ............ and peharpe a play on Marxism!

P.S. You have spurred my interest in watching the TV series "the prisoner"; as well as raising many other thought provoking ideas....thanks I greatly enjoy reading you posts. As also does - I would guess - Noam Chomsky.

cheers mate

[Snweyuag]

Permit me to digress for a brief question! Is the McGoohan charactor the reason for the (six) in 'Marksix' ............ and peharpe a play on Marxism!

P.S. You have spurred my interest in watching this series; as well as raising many other thought provoking ideas....thanks I greatly enjoy reading you posts. As also does - I would guess - Noam Chomsky.

cheers mate

Doh! ya got me!

I only wish I were that bright; in fact Marks one to five were mere prototypes but you have given me an idea - I shall adopt "I am not a number - I am a free man!" as my new signature and drop Michelangelo's "...I have never found salvation in nature. I love cities above all" forthwith. Or even sixthwith.





Actually - that village really exists. It's Port Merrion in Wales near to Port Madoc (Porthmadoc) and one of the most beautiful places you can imagine. I have even stayed there for a weekend with my g/f and it is anything but free - almost £600 for two nights!!!!

Remind me again who Naom Chomsky is...

It was built by the famous architect Clough Williams-Ellis- looks like Italy - in reality is Wales

http://www.portmeirion-village.com/en/index.php

I just googled it - try this site if yoou are interested in the cult TV series:- http://www.portmeiricon.com/

Also - you might like to see how the UK government's TV ads create the kind of environment the Stasi would be proud of in which they encourage each of us to report on our neighbours:-

http://www.visit4info.com/details.cfm?adid=30640

[mymnarorump]

Marksix - Indeed if you did you research about Reid, you'd know that he made a comment along the lines of: "I used to be a Communist. I used to believe in Santa Claus". The fact that you dismiss the fact that he left after two years after being disillusioned with the whole idea of the implementation of marxism highlights your flawed approach in trying degrade someone who probably is one of the more credible MP's around.

Using the term gulag when describing the likes of Belmarsh is so flawed that it makes me laugh. The fact that you try to make a connection between one which forced people and their families to work to their death with a small selection of people that have security concerns is absolutely diabolical.

And to top it off, you come up with a statement like this:
"The connection between soviet gulags and congestion charging may seem a tenuous one"

The reason there is a deadline to pay your taxes, tv licence, etc is so that government can function. If there wasn't people wouldn't bother paying their taxes, there wouldn't be the money for health, education, etc... Also you'd either have to be insanely stupid to 'forget' to pay taxes, considering you have all the documentation at hand - its up to you as an individual to pay those taxes and if you fail or forget then that is your fault: not that of the state who has given warning via adverts in the media to the exact date. So basically you're trying to say that its wrong to snitch on someone who isn't paying their taxes but is getting all the benefits that those taxes bring?

I think you'll find that thats a far less intrusive procedure of being able to monitor those who pay their TV licence. If they didn't do that, we'd either have no BBC or every so often people would have to come around to check our TV and ensure that we have documentation to prove that we have paid: that would not only be inefficient but far more intrusive.

Interrogation Centres? Again totally off the spot; you'll find that the reason for interview centres that is to stop fraud. Currently you could post for a passport with phoney pictures: you can't do that if you have to go through an interview to clarify that you are the person applying for the passport. This is how a lot of identity fraud takes place, this would go forward in reducing it.

The irony is that you claim these to be part of some sort of police state: yet everyone knows about them: they are obvious, they aren't secretive.

And now you refer to The Prisoner - I guess Star Wars will be next right?

Also I think you'll find that the reason we have numbers for things like our credit cards, NI cards is because our names aren't unique. You couldn't for example have a list of people who have paid their NI by name, otherwise you'd have a problem with Mr John Smiths', confusing people and chasing those who may have paid and not chasing up those who haven't. We have our name, but numbers help identify us - not blank us out.

I think the most troubling problem with you is not the fact that you seem to be blurting quotes from websites and others (and seem incapable of thinking for yourself), but the fact that you twist it all around to be something that it isn't. That is how totalitarianism takes hold: you spread fear that something is happening when it isn't, to fool the electorate into believing you and then ensuring that you cement your position in politics. You go on about Blair and others, but I'd actually fear more for my liberities if someone like you ever came to power.