[AALee]

The Double Life of an Infamous Serbian Fugitive


“For an older person, he had very many interests,” said Maja Djelic, 28, a Belgrade resident who, like Mr. Karadzic, wrote for the magazine Healthy Life. She said they also met for coffee and conversations, about acupuncture and the Internet, at a cafe called Biblioteka in downtown Belgrade. Mr. Karadzic, she recalled, was very interested in improving his Web site."

From the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/wo...=1&oref=slogin

[FEti0TUI]

The immediate reaction of the British press was one of interest, and touted the arrest of Karadzic important on the basis that he is alleged to be responsible for the most significant war crimes committed after WWII.

Here is the reaction of one Englishman to the story, from The Guardian's Comment is Free

"I have just been watching a BBC news cast that declares the massacres in Bosnia as the worst incidence of mass murder since Hitler.

Africans, and particularly Kenyans, know that this claim is just not true.

The brutal, wanton killings, maimings, rape and torture of the Kikuyu in Kenya by the British in the 1950s rank 2nd to Nazi Germanys efforts in number only. (The British authorities deliberately destroyed most of the records in an attempt to conceal the truth. By their own admission the British Government acknowledges 11,000 deaths. This already is in excess of the 8,000 reported to have been killed in Bosnia. But even this number is hotly disputed by many historians who submit that this number is highly implausible and that many tens of thousands were killed. One researcher, Caroline Elkins puts it this way :

There are demographic figures. The British Colonial government undertook a census of the Africans in Kenya in 1948 and 1962, years on either end of the Emergency. The population figures reveal that the growth rate of the Kikuyu was notably below that of the neighbouring Kamba, Luo, and Luhya populations, something that should not have been the case. If the Kikuyu population figure is adjusted using the growth rates comparable to the other Africans, we find that somewhere between 130,000 and 300,000 Kikuyu are unaccounted for. ...

As to the methods used, it is hard, if not impossible, to find more depraved examples of systematic barbarity

Here are a few examples of eye witness and survivor accounts as recorded by the researcher, Caroline Elkins

All that time, some people … were being put in sacks, one covering the lower part of the bodies, while the other covered the upper part. Then petrol …would be poured over the sacks, and those in charge and ordered them to be lit. The people inside would die writhing in flames. Many people were dying every day.

Sexual violence was clearly a recurring theme in the detainee camps …Sexually abusing the detainees - whether from sodomy with foreign objects (animals, insects, bottles(including broken ones) hot-boiled eggs) into womens vaginas, cavity searches, the imposition of a filthy toilet-bucket the system, or forced penetrative sex - was one part of the broader dehumanisation process…

:

Indeed, how better to assert British male domination then to demasculate, literally, the enemy? The most grotesque form of this tactic was castration. Accounts of men's testicles being forcibly removed are widespread…Apparently, this was an instrument or device to crush the men's testicles before they were eventually ripped off.

When they still couldn't get information from the they decided to put paprika pepper inside my private parts.. we were ordered to ..with our knees raised. ....then the bottle full of a mixture of pepper and water was put inside it into my birth canal and the contents emptied inside me. As the bottle was being emptied, it was held in place After the pepper was inside me, it is impossible for anyone to imagine the torment. The burning can be found everywhere, in the eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and . It happened at a previous day, the day we were arrested to ...a lady ... had been given the same treatment, only her mixture had been made from pepper and petrol.

There were aslo many thousnads who died slow and painfull deaths through starvation deliberatley imposed upon thme by the colonial authorities.

Here are some links that will provide a starting point for anyone interested in understanding the true nature of the horrors perpetrated against innocent Africans.

Similar events happened elsewhere in Africa as Britain struggled to maintain its empire.

http://www.metacritic.com/books/auth...iesofthehanged

http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/03/1...ets-gulag.html

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....icle408636.ece

As the victims were Black Africans and the perpetrators were civilised white westerners, I dont think that many readers of this newspaper, and also many responsible journalists, will be clamouring for justice to be done"

[Gaxiciverfere]

George W. Bush is responsible for an equal amount of deaths in Iraq.

[GinaIsWild]

Adolf Hitler to his Army commanders, August 22, 1939:
"Thus for the time being I have sent to the East only my 'Death's Head Units' with the orders to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish race or language. Only in such a way will we win the vital space that we need. Who still talks nowadays about the Armenians?"
The term 'Genocide' was coined by a jurist named Raphael Lemkin in 1944 by combining the Greek word 'genos' (race) with the Latin word 'cide' (killing). Genocide as defined by the United Nations in 1948 means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, including: (a) killing members of the group (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Recent to Past Occurrences

• Bosnia-Herzegovina: 1992-1995 - 200,000 Deaths
• Rwanda: 1994 - 800,000 Deaths
• Pol Pot in Cambodia: 1975-1979 - 2,000,000 Deaths
• Nazi Holocaust: 1938-1945 - 6,000,000 Deaths
• Rape of Nanking: 1937-1938 - 300,000 Deaths
• Stalin's Forced Famine: 1932-1933 - 7,000,000 Deaths
• Armenians in Turkey: 1915-1918 - 1,500,000 Deaths

[lammaredder]

You forgot the Great Leap Forward. With a name like that, War is Peace.

And 50 Million dead Indians is nothing, if you're English. Historians put the death toll in the subcontinent at something like that.

Shocking isnt it?

But at least they've found Karadzic.

[whimpykid]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

[bubbachew14]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4407140.ece

Karadzic’s home for the foreseeable future is already waiting. At the detention centre at the Hague they have prepared an en-suite cell, about 18 metres square, with a television, facilities to cook Balkan specialities with fellow war criminals and a ping-pong table.

[largonioulurI]

Recent to Past Occurrences[/b]

• Bosnia-Herzegovina: 1992-1995 - 200,000 Deaths
• Rwanda: 1994 - 800,000 Deaths
• Pol Pot in Cambodia: 1975-1979 - 2,000,000 Deaths
• Nazi Holocaust: 1938-1945 - 6,000,000 Deaths
• Rape of Nanking: 1937-1938 - 300,000 Deaths
• Stalin's Forced Famine: 1932-1933 - 7,000,000 Deaths
• Armenians in Turkey: 1915-1918 - 1,500,000 Deaths

Not to forget our own contribution to this list, the almost complete destruction of the American Indians. From a population of approximately 12 million in 1500 to just 237,000 in 1900. This has been described as ''a vast genocide, the most sustained on record'' by Ward Churchill (professor of ethnic studies, university of Colorado). David E Stannard (university of Hawaii) adds that ''native American Indians had undergone the worst holocaust the world has ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people''. Funny how some genocides are forgotten - to put this in context twice as many Indians were murdered and their land stolen than the European Jews in the 1940's.

Land of the free??

http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1...americans.html

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/aiholocaust.html

[Sensbachtal]

Not to forget our own contribution to this list, the almost complete destruction of the American Indians. From a population of approximately 12 million in 1500 to just 237,000 in 1900. This has been described as ''a vast genocide, the most sustained on record'' by Ward Churchill (professor of ethnic studies, university of Colorado). David E Stannard (university of Hawaii) adds that ''native American Indians had undergone the worst holocaust the world has ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people''. Funny how some genocides are forgotten - to put this in context twice as many Indians were murdered and their land stolen than the European Jews in the 1940's.

Land of the free??

http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1...americans.html

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/aiholocaust.html

Sounds like another liberal attempt to re-write history. If you don't believe America is the Land of the Free, perhaps you should look for another country more suitable.

[ArrichMer]

Sounds like another liberal attempt to re-write history.

Explain.

If you don't believe America is the Land of the Free, perhaps you should look for another country more suitable. Tired. Worn. Pointless.

[viagracheapest]

Explain.





Tired. Worn. Pointless.

Conquest and the taking over of others lands is something that has occurred since the beginni9ng of time. I just find it ludicrous to put the re-settlement of the indians on the same level as the holocausts of the 20th century.

Your opinion.

[DeilMikina]

Empires.

British and French Crown exercising their respective imperial policies. Spanish and Portuguese too.

They were the times.

The US and some of its WWII Allies (not necessarily England if you look at Northern Ireland and India) has been the sole major force since WWII in assisting independence movements around the world.

The 19th Century policy vs the Indian peoples was merely what it was. A huge land grab with devastating consequences. But compared to the earlier Imperial ventures of the European powers, it looked a lot better (social policies of reservation etc) and its a lot better today but certainly not perfect.

Anyway Karadzic is an interesting figure for this thread. Lets leave those other things for another thread.

After all, in the Continent of Europe that prides itself on being civilized, if the allegations are true, obviously the lessons of WWII havent been learned by everyone.

[BalaGire]

@CCob:

Asking you to explain is my opinion?

And this Conquest and the taking over of lands is something that has occurred since the beginning of man's time on earth. I just find it ludicrous to put the re-settlement of the indians on the same level as the holocausts of the 20th century. is not my quote.

Since you had to cut and paste it from someone else's post into "my quote," it was deliberate.

Do it again, and you're gone.

[JonnTEN]

Explain.

Tired. Worn. Pointless.

No there is a point.

Go to China to see how minorities are treated today. Go to parts of Europe.

The US isnt all that bad. And you have the choice to leave without getting an exit visa, unlike some people around the world.

[teewHettive]

Stick to the topic and stop harrassing him on a matter that was an innocent error.

[Coollabioto]

Mind your own business.

It is the topic.

Or should I apply a strict rule and edit all you childish attempts to steer everything to UK bashing?

[DenisLevvin]

Conquest and the taking over of others lands is something that has occurred since the beginni9ng of time. I just find it ludicrous to put the re-settlement of the Indians on the same level as the holocausts of the 20th century.

Your opinion.

1. When starting a controversial emotional argument with no real standings or facts. Try not to make egregious spelling errors like "beginni9ng".

2. The killing of the Indians, while NOT an equitable reason for some of the privileges they are being given now (my own opinion) was WORSE that the Holocaust in terms of sheer numbers on two fronts. First, it was simply MORE PEOPLE KILLED. Second? Look at the time frame, the # compared to the global population of the time is staggering.

3. While some tribes were definitely war-like in nature and posed threats to early colonists, many were not. Even more were not at the very start and only became so after hostilities arose.

AAMOF, WE started the whole scalping deal (I believe it was started to prove head count when certain forces hired the natives as mercenaries. They paid per scalp retrieved/obtained).

We killed far more than were EVER threatening us and liken killing every nation in the middle east as if they were all one and the same rather than different nomadic tribes each with their own positions and leadership.

So, rather than the simple "Liberal left blah blah where are my matches" comment. Try doing a bit of research first and produce something salient.

[tramadoldiscountes]

Stick to the topic and stop harrassing him on a matter that was an innocent error.

It wasn't innocent.

Read around GT.

[EzekelEnzino]

Mind your own business.

It is the topic.

Or should I apply a strict rule and edit all your childish attempts to steer everything to UK bashing?

But Zip! This is different! This is HIS post! You should not be coming in here and changing the subject about something he wants to talk about to something he disagrees with!

I mean, who would do something like that?

[bestbyV]

@CCob:

Asking you to explain is my opinion?

And thisis not my quote.

Since you had to cut and paste it from someone else's post into "my quote," it was deliberate.

Do it again, and you're gone.

Where do you see it as your quote? When I first answered, I had it below your word "explain" and it did show up as your quote, but I edited and corrected it.

No "your opinion" referred to your "Tired. Worn. Pointless." phrase.