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Old 07-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #21
sasaderesada

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But Ninjahedge, the Indians weren't killed...they were "resettled."

Taking two or more massive genocides, and trying to justify one by ordering the level of their brutality is really ridiculous.

The US was not alone in this. Native societies were destroyed throughout the Western Hemisphere.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:20 PM   #22
epPtsDno

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Where do you see it as your quote?
You had it inside my quote.

You can still see the space where you removed it.

Don't jerk me around.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #23
FelicitaJ

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Ah, I get it now Zip!!!


You need a good PR agent/Historian for your genocide to be considered progress rather than...um...."Socioeconomic cultural restructuring on a national scale"......
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:25 PM   #24
Derrida

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You had it inside my quote.

You can still see the space where you removed it.

Don't jerk me around.
As an illustration, notice that when you quote someone and get their title up at the top, noone else's quotes are nested inside.

So either you did your own cut and paste after quoting OR you know the code for putting the top tag on a quote.

Neither describes ignorance.

Take this to PM if you have anything more to talk about. Arguing with a mod just ain't smart out in public (especially on someone else's thread!)
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:26 PM   #25
JonDopl

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You had it inside my quote.

You can still see the space where you removed it.

Don't jerk me around.
I told you it was a mistake, I corrected monkey.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:28 PM   #26
KinicsBonee

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If you're trying to insult me, it's just a User ID. But it's not really smart of you to provoke a moderator, especially since I know you have more than one ID.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:32 PM   #27
maks_holi

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Irony being he does not even realize who that chimp really represents or the political satire it expouses...


CCOB! TAKE IT TO PM'S!


Give GT his thread back!
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:41 PM   #28
Ekrbcbvh

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Mind your own business.

It is the topic.

Or should I apply a strict rule and edit all you childish attempts to steer everything to UK bashing?
The topic is about Karadzic.

As a member of this board, it is my business when you or anyone starts hollering all over the thread.

If you want to have a fight with someone about which genocide is the biggest, thats for another thread.

I thought that everyone here knew that. And I never thought that you extort respect by shouting down others, you have to earn it.

Anyway Zip, the article about the Hague having a kitchen for cooking Balkan cuisine was from the Times in London, and was quite interesting - I recommend it.

And the second link that was posted contained an Englishmans comment from a well known English paper, the Guardian, which happened to not restrict that persons right to comment. I would expect you to allow me the same courtesy.

Anyway, theyve found Karadzic after all this time - who would have thought.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:34 PM   #29
Mjypksun

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If you want to have a fight with someone about which genocide is the biggest, thats for another thread.

I thought that everyone here knew that. And I never thought that you extort respect by shouting down others, you have to earn it.
I told you twice, once on this thread, and again in a PM, to mind your own business, that I was dealing with a troll with multiple IDs. All the mods were aware of it. I don't remember thinking it was necessary to clue you in.

It's moderator business, not yours. If you want to be a moderator, apply for the job.

The "innocent " CCob is banned.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:14 PM   #30
ttiokjbnhjjillp

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At the risk of going astray from the central topic (but too curious not to try): Does a Banned Member disappear from the "Members List"?
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:19 PM   #31
DoctorDeryOne

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Mass-murdering despots and banned members do not appear on the Members List.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:57 AM   #32
SawbasyWrab

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Zip, keep your demonstration of your awesome, powerful and respect inducing mod powers to the "The Power of the Zippy PM" like your last threatening and abusive one that you sent me.

Chest beating or shouting down others doesnt benefit the thread or the board. Yes, I know, you will try to issue another admonition in an attempt to extort respect - well save it for a PM.
The Times reports violence in Belgrade:

"Demonstrators were brought into Belgrade from across Serbia and the autonomous Serb area of Bosnia — one of Dr Karadzic’s divisive legacies — hours after seven Serb soldiers in Bosnia were convicted of genocide for their part in the Srebrenica massacre."
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:01 AM   #33
corsar-caribean

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How fascinating to watch a fellow crash and burn.

Karadzic, of course
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:08 AM   #34
furillo

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Enjoy your week off, Tenenbaum.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:28 AM   #35
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Karadic has already been pronounced guilty, although in my view it is no means certain that he personally ordered the civilian prisoners shot at Srebrenica. That order could have been down to local commanders or Mladic, the military commander.

Some media sources are accusing Karadic of being responsible for 200,000 dead. But that figure refers to the total number of dead in the Bosnian war, including Serbs. Most casualties were military.

His family says that the Dayton Peace accord guaranteed immunity for all Serb, Croat and Muslim war leaders, a promise which was later withdrawn. It certainly seems strange that Karadic was willing to sign up to Dayton if he knew it implied he would spend the rest of his life in a prison cell thousands of miles from home.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:21 PM   #36
anenselog

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Karadzic hasn't been pronounced guilty; he's been indicted. Regardless of what some media states, the indictment doesn't charge 200,000 deaths.

He's been charged under the rule of command responsibility, first codified at the Hague Convention 1907.


July 31, 2008

Karadzic Arrives in Hague for Trial Despite Violent Protest by Loyalists

By MARLISE SIMONS and DAN BILEFSKY

THE HAGUE — Long one of the most-wanted fugitives in the world, Radovan Karadzic, the Bosnian Serb leader blamed for inciting his followers to join him in a brutal ethnic war, was delivered Wednesday to a prison cell in The Hague for eventual trial by a United Nations war crimes tribunal.

Mr. Karadzic, who was arrested in Serbia last week, was taken from the Belgrade war crimes court at roughly 3:45 a.m., escorted by masked Serbian security officers, according to the Serbian war crimes prosecutor, Vladimir Vukcevic. Mr. Karadzic’s plane landed in Rotterdam, not far from The Hague, about two hours later. He was then transferred by helicopter to the Scheveningen penitentiary in The Hague, where the United Nations has its own modern cellblock.

He is the highest-level politician to be transferred to the court dealing with war crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia since Slobodan Milosevic, the former Serbian president, who was arrested in 2001 and died in his cell there in 2006 while awaiting a verdict.

The indictment of Mr. Karadzic charges that as president of the Bosnian Serb republic in the early 1990s, he helped orchestrate a 43-month siege of the city of Sarajevo, devised a systematic campaign to kill or drive out tens of thousands of non-Serbs from Serbian towns and villages, set up concentration camps and was an engineer of the massacre of nearly 8,000 unarmed men and boys captured at the United Nations-protected enclave of Srebrenica, in Europe’s worst mass execution since World War II.

To avoid too much commotion at the prison, Mr. Karadzic may be kept separate from the other inmates for a few days, a court official said. Ahead of his arrival, the cellblock had held 37 men, among them former foes, allies and even subordinates of the former Bosnian warlord.

Before his transfer to The Hague, about 15,000 of his supporters, some bused in from across Serbia and Bosnia by the far-right Radical Party, gathered in Belgrade on Tuesday to protest the new government that arrested him on July 21.

Loyalists wearing T-shirts emblazoned with Mr. Karadzic’s image waved Serbian flags and chanted “Long Live Radovan!” and “Uprising! Uprising!” About 100 ultranationalists wearing masks, who had separated from the group, burned flares, attacked traffic lights with clubs and hurled stones at storefront windows. The police responded with tear gas, and the Serbian news media said more than 45 people suffered minor injuries.

“Karadzic is a hero because he defended Serb lives during the terrible wars of the 1990s,” said Elena Pavovski, 24, a supporter of the Radical Party, whose members sang patriotic songs next to a banner on Republic Square that threatened Serbia’s pro-Western president, Boris Tadic. “Everyone knows that the war crimes tribunal in The Hague was designed to try Serbs while the war criminals who killed Serbs are set free.”

The rally was seen as a test of the new government, which is made up of Mr. Tadic’s Democrats and the Socialist Party of the former Serbian strongman, Mr. Milosevic, which controls the Interior Ministry and the police.

Before the rally began, Mr. Tadic implored the protesters to remain peaceful. He was determined to avoid a repeat of demonstrations in February, when thousands of radicals rampaged through Belgrade to protest Kosovo’s declaration of independence, looting shops and setting part of the United States Embassy on fire.

The embassy warned Americans to stay away from central Belgrade on Tuesday night, while the embassy itself was guarded by troops with machine guns.

Mr. Karadzic, a former psychiatrist, evaded arrest for more than a decade, living openly in Belgrade for at least part of that time as an ascetic New Age guru with an assumed name, a bushy beard, a mistress and a fake family in the United States.

Belgrade had made clear it was determined to send Mr. Karadzic to The Hague as swiftly as possible to prevent an escalation in tensions and to satisfy the European Union, which considers handing over war crimes suspects a prerequisite for Serbia to join the union. Diplomats for the European Union said Brussels postponed a trade deal with Serbia on Tuesday to wait for Mr. Karadzic’s transfer to take place.

Serbian analysts said the emotional and violent outpouring of support for Mr. Karadzic showed that Serbia had yet to reckon with its role in Srebrenica, 13 years after the massacre.

“Our elites refuse to confront openly what Serbia did, for fear of being branded as traitors,” Brankica Stankovic, one of the country’s leading television journalists, said Tuesday.

The demonstration coincided with an announcement by Bosnia’s war crimes court that it had sentenced seven Bosnian Serbs to prison terms ranging from 38 to 42 years for taking part in the mass killing of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica.

Ms. Pavovski, the Radical Party supporter, said she was unmoved by what had happened at Srebrenica.

“Nobody has proved that a massacre took place,” she said. “Srebrenica is the product of a media war against Serbia and the Serbian people. Karadzic was fighting to defend Serbia.”

An opinion poll published three years ago by Strategic Marketing Research in Belgrade found that more than half of 1,200 respondents either did not know about war crimes in Bosnia, or did not believe they had taken place..

The failure to grapple with the past, analysts said, has been exacerbated by the belief of some Serbs that the United Nations tribunal in The Hague is an unjust entity meant to prosecute Serbs.

According to legal experts, as of early this year, 45 Serbs, 12 Croats and 4 Muslims were convicted of war crimes in connection with the Balkan wars of the 1990s. More Croats than Muslims have been indicted on war crime charges, but several were acquitted because of insufficient evidence, the experts said.

Mr. Karadzic’s supporters said they were incensed by the recent release of high-profile suspects accused of war crimes against Serbs, including Naser Oric, a Bosnian Muslim, and Ramush Haradinaj, an ethnic-Albanian former commander of the Kosovo Liberation Army.

Western diplomats said public perceptions of war crimes in Serbia would be critical to the country’s drive to rejoin the Western fold by demonstrating a willingness to cooperate with the court.

Natasa Kandic, director of the Humanitarian Law Center in Belgrade, said the Serbian public had been graphically confronted with the facts of Srebrenica for the first time in June 2005, when Serbian television broadcast a video of the killing of six Muslim men by members of a Serbian paramilitary unit.

But while the video showed irrefutable proof that Serbia’s police had taken part in the massacre, she said there remained public amnesia about the killings.

“Srebrenica is not taught in our history books in schools, it is not widely shown in popular culture,” Ms. Kandic said. “This country needs to have a historical reckoning about the past.”

Dan Bilefsky reported from Belgrade, Serbia.


Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #37
janeseymore09092

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Sorry, I should have said "Karadic has already been pronounced guilty by many media outlets".

Thanks for that - interesting stuff.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:56 AM   #38
Viafdrear

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Enjoy your week off, Tenenbaum.
lol. Zippy = the master of pawnage!
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:07 AM   #39
Asianunta

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Yeah, nice one.

Any news on Karadzic?

"Oh yes - he'll hang - but at least he will get a fair trial first"
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