[dodsCooggipsedebt]

I'm probably overreacting to this. In reading about J.B.Hehman's (TLOZ Link5) death, and how there had been a rash of robberies in a part of Harlem undergoing gentrification and the like, I'm wondering if New York is seeing a wider trend, wider than just this one incident. If city-wide crime is going up, it should not be surprising, as crime is going up in most big cities. What has been remarkable in this decade, given the country's economic state and NYC's post-9/11 economy, is that NYC did not revert back to the "bad old days," where from the mid 1970's to early 1990's, where it was infected and infested with crime and racial tension. Although for most of my life I do not have a palpable memory of what it was like in New York at this time (I'm only two years younger than TLOZ) there is no way in hell that I would ever want to live in or travel to a New York that was like the '70s-early '90s NYC, despite how some bemoan the city for being "sanitized" today. Even if the overall crime-rate in NY is not climbing, is it possible that it's climbing in select areas?

[Louthcoombutt]

I’ve always been interested in criminal activity and what fuels it! Demographic changes, gentrification social policies, political and governmental breakdowns etc.

NYC has gone through the biggest change since the 1950’s no doubt the tapestry of the city will be affected hence tension within the fabric.

I’d like to see numbers in terms of crime and compare, even though the NYPD cooks the books we’d get an idea. If you look at current high crime areas they were not always like this IE: Mott Haven Bed Stuy, ENY. Alphabet City one of the worst crimeinfested areas in NYC over the past 30 years has now become trendy and hip.

Media coverage of these incidents might taint reality and present a perception of rising crime. I must admit that I hear much more gunplay in the Bronx then I’ve ever heard. Quality of life compared to 1985 in the South Bronx might be better today but I believe it’s a much more violent place to be in today then back then.

m.

[Ornamiviant]

While crime fluctuates a bit, I don't think long term that crime is going back up again in NYC. We've had years in the last decade where crime has gone up from the year before, but overall it has gone down over those ten years.

A lot of the places you're hearing about crime going up is suburban communities. Typically suburbs that are pretty close to big cities. NBC did a story on this, and the FBI is trying to crack down on it early.

While some act dumb as to why crime is rising in surrounding suburbs, the reason seems simple to me --- rejuvenation in the cities.

With City neighborhoods being rejuvenated, and rents going up drastically, low-income people are being forced out of most big cities and into nearby suburbs that are more affordable.

With violent crime statistically higher among low-income residents, this would make sense as to why crime is rising in the 'burbs and going down in the City.

So, why are there still every so often clashes in places like the Lower East Side, Harlem and spots in Brooklyn where rejuvenation has taken place nearby? Simple --- housing projects. Projects are artificially retaining many low-income people who now find themselves in a neighborhood they can't afford and with people that have very different means than them.

Don't take me wrong people --- I am not hating on the poor. Many low-income people are perfectly humble and law-abiding but we have to look at statistics that show the trends. Corporate money laundering is more likely with white-collar workers. That's just statistically true.

[loyalgagora]

The less you have to lose, the more you are willing to risk.

Violent (obvious) crime is similar in that respct to desperation crime (addiction, terrorism).

Unfortunately, since we do everything by demographic, we seem to ignore the fact that it is poverty that motivates many of these people to do this, and instead focus on race. While race does act as a channel for the acts, it is rarely the primary motivator.

Now add to it the whole demographic differential (such as posh next to poverty) and you get additional hatred and tension, also similar to what we see in other areas in the world.

If not havnig something irritates you, then seeing someone that does, that is different than you, in a way that you have been programmed is somehow wrong, then you will get more "motivated" to "balance the scales".

What they have to do in these areas is promote the kind of living that does not strain so much at demographic strata. You get a bunch of hard working poor in an area, who are proud of what they have been able to get through their labors, and you will get less reaction than from a bunch of people who have been handed stuff just because they had none. Humans are like that.

There will still be resentment (The Blue Collar members of my family still scorn the "pieces of paper" others in my family, myself included, have gotten from school, but that has not lead to them, or anyone else in their neighborhood, to go out yuppie-bashing). But there will not be as much outright disrespect and aggression.

Just my thoughts...

[Queueftof]

I'm probably overreacting to this. In reading about J.B.Hehman's (TLOZ Link5) death, and how there had been a rash of robberies in a part of Harlem undergoing gentrification and the like, I'm wondering if New York is seeing a wider trend, wider than just this one incident.

The gentrification that is going on in Harlem does not affect that much the poor housing projects that still breed crime and poverty. The income levels among residents of many of those housing projects is way below the poverty live and new developments often means that prices go up in the neighborhood stores and the cost of life goes up. That's a problem that can only be solved by better education and changes in the way we view the subsidized housing, I believe.

[Domovoy]

The less you have to lose, the more you are willing to risk.

Violent (obvious) crime is similar in that respct to desperation crime (addiction, terrorism).

Unfortunately, since we do everything by demographic, we seem to ignore the fact that it is poverty that motivates many of these people to do this, and instead focus on race. While race does act as a channel for the acts, it is rarely the primary motivator.

Now add to it the whole demographic differential (such as posh next to poverty) and you get additional hatred and tension, also similar to what we see in other areas in the world.

If not havnig something irritates you, then seeing someone that does, that is different than you, in a way that you have been programmed is somehow wrong, then you will get more "motivated" to "balance the scales".

What they have to do in these areas is promote the kind of living that does not strain so much at demographic strata. You get a bunch of hard working poor in an area, who are proud of what they have been able to get through their labors, and you will get less reaction than from a bunch of people who have been handed stuff just because they had none. Humans are like that.

There will still be resentment (The Blue Collar members of my family still scorn the "pieces of paper" others in my family, myself included, have gotten from school, but that has not lead to them, or anyone else in their neighborhood, to go out yuppie-bashing). But there will not be as much outright disrespect and aggression.

Just my thoughts...

Ninjahead- I have to agree w/you. I think crime has more to do w/socioeconomics, than it does race. People living in poverty, and below the poverty level, for that matter, simply do not have the same opportunities that those w/financial means do. People don't commit crimes because they are black, white, aisian, hispanic, or whatever... most crimes are committed out of desperation (I'm not talking about out & out sicko's - murderers, etc); I'm talking about people that feel that they don't have other options, not that they don't have other options, but that are made to feel that they don't. Maybe it's b/c we have a school system that would rather put their money into installing metal detectors in the schools, instead of making sure that all kids in all schools, not just the privileged ones have computers, current text books, decent facilities, etc...Until we as a society begin to value all citizens equally, via education, opportunity, etc... we will continue to have crime. Just my opinon...

[BoattyGonm]

The gentrification that is going on in Harlem does not affect that much the poor housing projects that still breed crime and poverty. The income levels among residents of many of those housing projects is way below the poverty live and new developments often means that prices go up in the neighborhood stores and the cost of life goes up. That's a problem that can only be solved by better education and changes in the way we view the subsidized housing, I believe.

The city should destroy those ugly and segragated housing projects and built some that have more interaction to the neighborhoods they are in. Maybe the people then will feel that they will be part of the community, not part of an underclass. An example might be what they are doing in Chicago... just check the video on this website.

http://www.thecha.org/housingdev/cab...een_homes.html

[blackjackblax]

Still sterile. Still segregated, still zoned by use. Where are the shops? Oh there they are in the strip mall with the parking lot. Do the residents get in their cars and drive there?

When the newness wears off will anyone still think it's great?

[Metalhead]

Ok I agree about the shops. In NYC that won't work. But I like how these new buildings have larger windows and the size makes them ideal for places like Harlem.. Also they are suppose to be mixed for all incomes.

[Jon Woodgate]

Ok I agree about the shops. In NYC that won't work.

Why would it work in Chicago?

But I like how these new buildings have larger windows and the size makes them ideal for places like Harlem.. Also they are suppose to be mixed for all incomes. True, the big windows are nice (and the glossy hardwood floors). But when I look at this as a whole, I see projects. Right down to the unassigned open space and the iron fencing. I see standardized landscape and future dead grass. Once the pushers move in, the middle class will move out, and we'll be right back where we started.

[gogFloark]

Well I am not sure if that will work in Chicago neither. But I assume that most people in Chicago drive more than people in NYC?

Anyway... I agree that the fencing is a give way that they are just projects. That I will do with out aswell. I say something similar shown on the video but without those fences. and ofcourse shops on every corner and on the big avenues. Just like you find on every NYC streets, but lack on those big ugly housing projects.

[nAKMzyBN]

Well I am not sure if that will work in Chicago neither. But I assume that most people in Chicago drive more than people in NYC?

Anyway... I agree that the fencing is a give way that they are just projects. That I will do with out aswell. I say something similar shown on the video but without those fences. and ofcourse shops on every corner and on the big avenues.

In other words, a different approach...

One that isn't a project.

[GitaraMoya]

Crime will go up, it's cyclical. I wouldn't believe anything the NYPD says, since it's in their best interest to lie and cook the books, as Marty mentioned above. Shootings have increased over the past couple years, along with rape. I see people get robbed all the time, but it isn't reported. When you increase the amount of people with middle-high incomes, it also increases the number of potential victims.

[Gmvkgkmn]

I see people get robbed all the time.

Where do you see this?

[sydramySweame]

To say that the NYPD cooks the books and that crime is really going up, you have to assume that they didn't cook the books in the past.

[iouiyyut]

^ Maybe they do it always, as a matter of course.

[evammaUselp]

Where do you see this?

Did you want a specific neighborhood(s) or area?

To say that the NYPD cooks the books and that crime is really going up, you have to assume that they didn't cook the books in the past.

Yes, but now that it is an important issue for Mayor Bloomberg and the NYPD in their marketing for tourism and attracting people to move into the city, they have to do it to a more extreme level to supress any notion of a rise.

[Annewsded]

Did you want a specific neighborhood(s) or area?

Yes. Where do you see this?

[primaveraloler]

It was an important issue for the same reasons last year, the year before, etc. If all the data is faulty, then you can't pick and choose what you will accept as true fact, and draw any conclusions.

It is ridiculous to think that anyone without access to data can have a feel for whether crime rates rise or fall year-to-year. You can only make that assessment over the long term.

[Qdcqxffs]

It was an important issue for the same reasons last year, the year before, etc. If all the data is faulty, then you can't pick and choose what you will accept as true fact, and draw any conclusions.

This may be the Age of Information, but that makes it also the age of disinformation.