[gortusbig]

Just saw this powerful movie and wanted to discuss race in South Africa after watching it. For those who have not seen it nor are familiar with the story, here's what it's about:

Skin is a British-South African 2008 biographical film directed by Anthony Fabian, about Sandra Laing, a South African woman born to white parents who was classified as "Coloured" during the apartheid era. The year is 1965, and 10 year-old Sandra has distinctly African-looking features. Her parents, Abraham and Sannie, are white Afrikaaners, unaware of their black ancestry. They are shopkeepers in a remote area of the Eastern Transvaal and, despite Sandra's mixed-race appearance, have lovingly brought her up as their white little girl. Sandra is sent to a boarding school in the neighbouring town of Piet Retief, where her (white) brother Leon is also studying, but parents and teachers complain that she does not belong. She is examined by State officials, reclassified as coloured, and expelled from the school. Sandra's parents are shocked, but Abraham fights through the courts to have the classification reversed. The story becomes an international scandal and media pressure forces the law to change, so that Sandra becomes officially white again.
By the time she is 17, Sandra realises she is never going to be accepted by the white community. She falls in love with Petrus, a black man and the local vegetable seller, and begins an illicit love affair. Abraham threatens to shoot Petrus and disown Sandra. Sannie is torn between her husband's rage and her daughter's predicament. Sandra elopes with Petrus to Swaziland. Abraham alerts the police, and has them arrested and put in prison. Sandra is told by the local magistrate to go home, but she refuses.
Now Sandra must live her life as a black woman in South Africa for the first time, with no running water, no sanitation and little income. She and Petrus have two children, and although she feels more at home in this community, she desperately misses her parents and yearns for a reunion. After many more years of hardship and struggle, the chances of that reunion ever happening seem remote. So her parents were oblivious to any Black ancestry and in this time and age the field of genetics was not so advanced were to they could test themselves. I was unaware that there was also 'racial passing' in South Africa. One of or both of Sandra Laing's parents had to have some Black African ancestry for their daughter to come out 'coloured' in the South African perspective. Her father fought for her to be recognized as legally white, since him and his wife were both "white". Later in her life she fought to get reclassified as coloured as she had her identity formed. Life in South Africa taught her she could not pass as white and she then embraced a colured identity, which her parents really disliked.

How many stories do we have like this in South Africa? I'm sure many more Afrikaaners had Black ancestry and produced 'coloured' children.

[itititit]

In the case of her parents, I am sure they were indeed predominately European. But with a considerable amount of SSA admixture shared between the both of them and carried through generations and recombined, it was only an eventuality that a child would be born with a phenotype that reflected the admixture. This is what I was trying to explain to the other New Worlders before. Sure, you might not notice anything this generation or in the next one. But if the admixture is still cycling around, eventually someone may pop up looking a bit different. It's a mistake to think that one given admixture level will universally result in one given look. There are averages and possibilities, but these can be quite tricky over the course of many generations should the admixture still be constant -- multigenerational mixing. The Laing example is case in point.

[preachadaq]

In the case of her parents, I am sure they were indeed predominately European. But with a considerable amount of SSA admixture shared between the both of them and carried through generations and recombined, it was only an eventuality that a child would be born with a phenotype that reflected the admixture. This is what I was trying to explain to the other New Worlders before. Sure, you might not notice anything this generation or in the next one. But if the admixture is still cycling around, eventually someone may pop up looking a bit different. It's a mistake to think that one given admixture level will universally result in one given look. There are averages and possibilities, but these can be quite tricky over the course of many generations should the admixture still be constant -- multigenerational mixing. The Laing example is case in point.

It is quite surprising how they were just totally oblivious to the Black ancestry though. That was never the case for my family, not even my father's family and his parents looked predominantly European. I had to question him a couple times about his SSA admixed look but he finally admitted his grandmother was a Black woman. I feel like my father was like a Sandra Laing in a way, growing up as an admixed SSA looking person in a family who was seen as white. He was always called "el negro" /"the black" by his siblings and mother.

[giftplas]

It is quite surprising how they were just totally oblivious to the Black ancestry though. That was never the case for my family, not even my father's family and his parents looked predominantly European. I had to question him a couple times about his SSA admixed look but he finally admitted his grandmother was a Black woman. I feel like my father was like a Sandra Laing in a way, growing up as an admixed SSA looking person in a family who was seen as white. He was always called "el negro" /"the black" by his siblings and mother.

Well, you have to remember the white population they came from was genetically bottlenecked. The Laings probably came from a group of select white families, all having some SSA admixture from the colonial days. That they would forget is understandable given that their ancestors only married "white" people after the initial settlement. What they forgot was that these "white" ancestors also carried the admixture as well as they all came from the same bottlenecked population. I doubt either parent could point to a grandparent and say, "There is the blackness." They were all white to them because they looked white. But they were not purely European. Two different things.

[WeightWatchyshow]

Well, you have to remember the white population they came from was genetically bottlenecked. The Laings probably came from a group of select white families, all having some SSA admixture from the colonial days. That they would forget is understandable given that their ancestors only married "white" people after the initial settlement. What they forgot was that these "white" ancestors also carried the admixture as well as they all came from the same bottlenecked population. I doubt either parent could point to a grandparent and say, "There is the blackness." They were all white to them because they looked white. But they were not purely European. Two different things.

After watching this movie I am happy I look SSA admixed instead of looking white with hidden SSA genes running through my veins. That way there isn't any surprises with my children coming out brown and SSA admixed looking. It is expected, if I ever had a white woman she would know what's up.

[awagsFare]

Caine is another Example. Although it was more direct in his case so to speak, because his mom was mixed.

[squicscor]

In the case of her parents, I am sure they were indeed predominately European. But with a considerable amount of SSA admixture shared between the both of them and carried through generations and recombined, it was only an eventuality that a child would be born with a phenotype that reflected the admixture. This is what I was trying to explain to the other New Worlders before. Sure, you might not notice anything this generation or in the next one. But if the admixture is still cycling around, eventually someone may pop up looking a bit different. It's a mistake to think that one given admixture level will universally result in one given look. There are averages and possibilities, but these can be quite tricky over the course of many generations should the admixture still be constant -- multigenerational mixing. The Laing example is case in point.

But it's so unusual it's worthy of a documentary because Afrikaner/Boer are noted for endogamy and self-segragation, reminds me of the case where a black couple gave birth to a white kid. SSA admixture is very low among Afrikaner/Boer Between you and me I think there is another reason the kid looks African
Expect to see alot more of this stuff flogging the slightest African thing in them.

[Clielldub]

Some years ago, there were an interracial couple who gave birth to twins. One came out black and the other white.

[qikolax]

Years ago, there were an interracial couple who gave birth to twins. One came out black and the other white.

That couple had known European and African genes so that shouldn't be a surprise at all.

[ebBPxIai]

This is one of the reasons for the One Drop Rule in the US. White American society did not want throwbacks like Sandra Laing popping up in the White American population. Thats why phenotypically White people with SSA ancestry were put into the Afram ethnic group.

[pkopwqzsdcvbn]

Sandra Laing and her Parents.


Sandra Laing and her Mom.

[johnstylet]

This is one of the reasons for the One Drop Rule in the US. White American society did not want throwbacks like Sandra Laing popping up in the White American popilation. Thats why phenotypically White people with SSA ancestry were put into the Afram ethnic group.

I think in Spanish colonial society there wasn't such organization so they just perpetuated self-hate among the SSA and/or Indigenous admixed population and basically made them believe to try to whiten ("progress") each generation.

[ENCOSEARRALIA]

This is one of the reasons for the One Drop Rule in the US. White American society did not want throwbacks like Sandra Laing popping up in the White American population. Thats why phenotypically White people with SSA ancestry were put into the Afram ethnic group.

Yup. Hit on it. And throwbacks are still born anyway! Only Aframs have to deal with them instead of white people.

"You sure you're Afram?"
"Yes."
"Really?"
"Yes."
*incredulous look*
"But how's that possible?"
"Ask great-great-great-great...."

[FsQGF1Mp]

I think in Spanish colonial society there wasn't such organization so they just perpetuated self-hate among the SSA and/or Indigenous admixed population and basically made them believe to try to whiten ("progress") each generation.

Isnt being Black a social stigma in Latin America?

[weO1bVp1]

Sandra Laing and her Parents.


Sandra Laing and her Mom.

You can see she looks like her parents. Such a brave woman. She went through a lot just to exist.

[somozasayre]

Yup. Hit on it. And throwbacks are still born anyway! Only Aframs have to deal with them instead of white people.

"You sure you're Afram?"
"Yes."
"Really?"
"Yes."
*incredulous look*
"But how's that possible?"
"Ask great-great-great-great...."

True, Aframs get white throwback people but I do not consider you one, because both of your parents look mixed to me and you look like your parents, so that does not qualify you as a throwback.

[Asianunta]

Actually in South Africa you could have Black ancestry but as long you looked White you'd be treated as such. Many "Colored" family had many member classified differently. Quite interesting!

[stoneeZef]

True, Aframs get white throwback people but I do not consider you one, because both of your parents look mixed to me and you look like your parents, so that does not qualify you as a throwback.

I know. I look a lot like my parents, especially my father. Yet everyone calls me a throwback. More like a synthetic phenotype rather than a true throwback.

[Adeniinteme]

Isnt being Black a social stigma in Latin America?

I am not trying to take away from the topic at hand and this can be answered in so many ways. I am going to leave this one alone for now.

[mrPronmaker]

Actually in South Africa you could have Black ancestry but as long you looked White you'd be treated as such. Many "Colored" family had many member classified differently. Quite interesting!

Also agreed. Families were split up. This created terribly awkward and unfortunate social and legal situations as whole families were carved up into white, coloured, and black.