[easypokergonj]

We have a small number of Italians but they blend in without any issue. They have generally been here for 3 or 4 generations. They don't have an enclave. They are usually mixed with Northern Euros and their phenotypes are diluted to the point that they aren't distinguishable. The only noticeable difference about them is they tend to be Catholic, but not always. Also some families have been in the restaurant and liquor distribution businesses for multiple generations. The "New Jersey Italian" stereotype of guidos and mafia doesn't exist here. Maybe it existed 50-100 years ago, but not for the past 30 years.

Yes. Some Italians do, and some remain within the ethnicity, when it comes to dating and marrying.

[r7rGOhvd]

We have a small number of Italians but they blend in without any issue. They have generally been here for 3 or 4 generations. They don't have an enclave. They are usually mixed with Northern Euros and their phenotypes are diluted to the point that they aren't distinguishable. The only noticeable difference about them is they tend to be Catholic, but not always. Also some families have been in the restaurant and liquor distribution businesses for multiple generations. The "New Jersey Italian" stereotype of guidos and mafia doesn't exist here. Maybe it existed 50-100 years ago, but not for the past 30 years.

This holds untrue for much of the northeast. I live in an Italian American enclave myself. Most Italian Americans in my city do not have non-Italian admixture. This is not uncommon among Italian Americans from Boston, NYNY, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Chicago.

Although, they are considered just as mainstream as any other white American, here.

[xanaxist]

Right. We also have very few Jews, but they do have an enclave, with synagogues, private practice doctor's offices, jewelers, etc. Italians have no enclave. They are spread out all over town, as are our Catholic churches. I suppose they are more likely to marry Catholic Irish or Poles than local white Protestant Baptists or whatever, but you see those couples as well. Not unusual at all. Also growing up the kids with Italian last names were never singled out and bullied for being wops or whatever. They were just usual kids at school or in the neighborhood.

[Poohoppesmase]

Right. We also have very few Jews, but they do have an enclave, with synagogues, private practice doctor's offices, jewelers, etc. Italians have no enclave. They are spread out all over town, as are our Catholic churches. I suppose they are more likely to marry Catholic Irish or Poles than local white Protestant Baptists or whatever, but you see those couples as well. Not unusual at all. Also growing up the kids with Italian last names were never singled out and bullied for being wops or whatever. They were just usual kids at school or in the neighborhood.

When they arrived here, they had to changed their names to be Americanized. Other reasons why is being from a fascist country and having allied with Germany. I realized than even Italians keep their last names, they are pronounced differently, to be easily pronounced. Like, Marone (Maron but its really Ma-ron-ne) or Genovese (Genovez,but its really Ge-no-ve-ze).

[carlsberg21]

They may have anglicized their names a bit, and they may not be pronounced in an Italian way, but they are still easily recognizable as Italian surnames, and they don't deny their Italian ancestry. WW2 era was after a lot of Italian and German immigration had already happened. Some people probably did change their names over that.

Here's a blog entry about a German who's family immigrated in the mid-1800's, that changed names after WW1.

http://nutfieldgenealogy.blogspot.co...anges.html?m=1

[emorbimefed]

When they arrived here, they had to changed their names to be Americanized. Other reasons why is being from a fascist country and having allied with Germany. I realized than even Italians keep their last names, they are pronounced differently, to be easily pronounced. Like, Marone (Maron but its really Ma-ron-ne) or Genovese (Genovez,but its really Ge-no-ve-ze).

That's not really true, it might have happened at times but Italian Americans have rarely ever changed their original surnames.

No If they were just normal white Americans, they would simply be Americans. Like the British and German descended Americans. American culture at it's core is an British descended one and then a North Western European one. Jews have also been accepted as being almost mainstream , but they will always be slightly different.

There's a phenotypic and cultural difference between northern and southern Euros but compared to Aframs or Hispanics the difference is negligible so yes, Italian Americans are considered "normal" white Americans by the majority of people.

[gariharrr]

That's not really true, it might have happened at times but Italian Americans have rarely ever changed their original surnames.

A few not but all. My college instructor and elementary school teacher name was Americanized. Both are of Italian descent. I agree. If that wasn't true, I would be any Italian surnames in America. Very few to say the least.

[tattcasetle]

According to US gov't people originating from the countries on this map are White:



"The countries from which White Americans claim their ancestry by %."

[mvjvz]

They may have anglicized their names a bit, and they may not be pronounced in an Italian way, but they are still easily recognizable as Italian surnames, and they don't deny their Italian ancestry. WW2 era was after a lot of Italian and German immigration had already happened. Some people probably did change their names over that.

Here's a blog entry about a German who's family immigrated in the mid-1800's, that changed names after WW1.

http://nutfieldgenealogy.blogspot.co...anges.html?m=1

I am not saying that they deny it. Many I know make it known that they are Italian. Certain, Italian names are pronounced differently in America as I stated in earlier. I know, I was taught the language in high school.

[topbonuscasino]

This holds untrue for much of the northeast. I live in an Italian American enclave myself. Most Italian Americans in my city do not have non-Italian admixture. This is not uncommon among Italian Americans from Boston, NYNY, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Chicago.

Although, they are considered just as mainstream as any other white American, here.

How can you possibly know any of this? Having grown up or lived around Italians your whole life doesn't justify your claim to this knowledge, nor does passing on the gist of conversations you've had or overheard (though I wouldn't necessarily discount this).

[Essefsbyday]

I feel bad for my Italians brothers and sisters in the US. I will gladly move them back here.

[Kubasarika]

I feel bad for my Italians brothers and sisters in the US. I will gladly move them back here.

Don't feel bad, they're doing a lot better here than they'd be doing back home.

[VIAGRA-VIAGRA]

I see gesticulation is associated to an Italic way to speak, which is true, but in this excerpt there are movements that do not seem in tune with the speech, as when the man brings together his fingertips, unless he was being ironical.

[Assunkkensatt]

How can you possibly know any of this? Having grown up or lived around Italians your whole life doesn't justify your claim to this knowledge, nor does passing on the gist of conversations you've had or overheard (though I wouldn't necessarily discount this).

Because there is an unspoken disapproval here against mixing outside their ethnic group. They want to continue the legacy without "tainting" it. I'm very familiar with their dynamics.

[invasuant]

I see gesticulation is associated to an Italic way to speak, which is true, but in this excerpt there are movements that do not seem in tune with the speech, as when the man brings together his fingertips, unless he was being ironical.

Yes, it was irony. The Americans (two Jews and a southern Appalachian) were pretending to be Italian to infiltrate a Nazi German event. They were using the hand gestures in a poor attempt to simulate the way Italians spoke, because they only knew a few words of Italian. The Germans actually spoke fluent Italian. It was all intended for comedy.

[ancexiaepidge]

This is simply not true. I live in an area that has many people of Italian descent, and, they are seen as mainstream Americans. Perhaps 50 years ago this was true, but not today. In fact, the Italian culture is almost revered here. I know of people who claim Italian descent, even though they have none, just because it is admired.

Depends on where you live, it's like that up here in the North-east US, but i know Italians who live down south who are often mistaken for Mexican because of their complexion and definitely not considered "typical whites". I have a friend who has just come to identify with "latinos" as a result. Also Italian-culture proper, especially the Southern-Italian culture is quite different from mainstream American culture, and usually the more standardized Northern and Central Italian culture is the standard for "Italians" in America anyway, even though the majority of us are Southern Italians.

---------- Post added 2012-06-24 at 17:31 ----------

Also I have many "Italian" friends and family who are mistaken for Puerto Ricans, who are definitely not considered typical "white", there is a scale of "whiteness" even on the east coast, which regards Northern European features as "typical white" and dark hair and eyes, big eyes, tan/swarthy skin as less "white", even light skinned Italians are mistaken, my mother is light skinned and works with allot of Puerto Rican kids who have occasionally mistaken her for one of them. Still "Italians" here are generally regarded as "white".

[dXI9XFOA]

Because there is an unspoken disapproval here against mixing outside their ethnic group. They want to continue the legacy without "tainting" it. I'm very familiar with their dynamics.

Forgive me for saying so, but it seems to me you only think you're aware. I mean, if it's "unspoken" then how are you sensing it?

Not that I doubt what you're saying in a general sense. I'm quite sure it's true. I just wonder to what extent it's the case. I would certainly love it if it were true.

Also, how do you just how accepted as "white" Italian there are? Again, have you actually heard it stated explicitly or is it just something you're "sensing"? Even if you've heard words to that effect spoken, of course, it's doesn't constitute definite proof. Maybe you just chanced on those words and not on others. And after all, you're neither Italian nor white, so I doubt most people would see any reason to share their thoughts on this stuff with you.

[freevideoandoicsI]

White is a stupid colonial term. None in Europe, excluding Nazis, use the term white-

@omm 'e m.e.r.d.a. Puerto Ricans look quite different from Italians. People who mistake Italians and Puerto Ricans are clearly biased.