[MinisuipGaicai]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/06...a-stunned.html
Condoleezza Rice, former US Secretary of State and national security adviser, ought to be a tough woman to surprise. Yet when Henry Louis Gates Jr, host of a US television series called Finding Your Roots, revealed that nearly half of her genetic ancestry could be traced to Europe, Rice, an African American, told Gates, “I’m stunned.”I am not particularly surprised that Condoleezza is stunned. Years ago, I wrote that persons of mixed ancestry often have three reactions:

1. Acceptance ("multiple ancestries, and love'em all")
2. Seeking the lowest common denominator ("we're all human; race doesn't exist")
3. Denying or minimizing one type of ancestry

Reaction #3 seems to be commonplace in the Americas. Of course, the identification of African Americans with the "African" part of their ancestry is the most famous case of this, but a different example is that of various types of "indigenous" activists who are often more European, or even African, but somehow identify with their "Native American" ancestry, even if they lack both genetic and cultural (language, religion) links with that ancestry.

I can't claim to have any experience on African Americans, but it seems to me that their frequent surprise in programs such as "Finding Your Roots" is a consequence of two things:

1. Their cultural identification with the African part of their ancestry, because it is what separates them -quite visibly- from the rest of society: i.e., African Americans differ from other Americans because of their African ancestry
2. The misapplication (understandable, due to a lack of experience) of theirown identity to Africa itself. This is rather an empirical bias: the most African-looking African Americans still have substantial European ancestry, and the average one has ~20%. To give a color analogy, a shade of grey looks lighter compared against black, and darker compared against a darker shade of grey.

In any case, the utility of ancestry analysis is that it provides people with relatively objective data about their genetic origins. How they (choose) to react to this data may be a function of their own psychology and the society they live in. Hopefully, as knowledge about genetics spreads, society as a whole will become more enlightened about its members. Yes, what Condolezza had is the Ancestry vs Identity conflict.Opinions about this issue?

[videolkif]

Because she looks black...

[DrKirkNoliss]

She was 50% AFrican / 50% Euro with zero Asian?

[DuePew]

I watched this episode where they found out the ancestor of Martha Stewart was Genghis Khan...makes sense

[LarpBulaBus]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/06...a-stunned.html
Yes, what Condolezza had is the Ancestry vs Identity conflict.Opinions about this issue?

She's only shocked at the amount of Euro ancestry, if you had no known white immediate ancestors and ended up almost 50% Euro wouldn't you be shocked too? I'm pretty sure most of the Aframs here who did 23andMe were some what shock at some of their results.

[virtuah]

She's only shocked at the amount of Euro ancestry, if you had no known white immediate ancestors and ended up almost 50% Euro wouldn't you be shocked too? I'm pretty sure most of the Aframs here who did 23andMe were some what shock at some of their results.

I am a little shocked at the 50% Euro but anything is possible. I'm sure you've heard the story of Sandra Laing in South Africa.

[maks_holi]

I am a little shocked at the 50% Euro but anything is possible. I'm sure you've heard the story of Sandra Laing in South Africa.

I have heard of that, but I can understand why an Afram with no immediate Euro family would be shocked at her results.

[yK2VgoEI]

It's understandable to be shocked if you have no knowledge to the extent of it. She probably thought it would be an average amount, like 20%, and not as high as 50%. Given her politics, she's unlike "indigenous" activists, so I doubt she's disappointed with the results if that's the implication, just surprised. I don't think it's an example of an ancestry vs. identity crisis, she's never been the intensely racially proud, raise her black fist up type.

[Enjknsua]

It's understandable to be shocked if you have no knowledge to the extent of it. She probably thought it would be an average amount, like 20%, and not as high as 50%. Given her politics, she's unlike "indigenous" activists, so I doubt she's disappointed with the results if that's the implication, just surprised. I don't think it's an example of an ancestry vs. identity crisis, she's never been the intensely racially proud, raise her black fist up type.

Here, I agree. She was always a confident black woman, but never militant about it. Much more matter of fact about her position and the challenges she faced to overcome it. It's very clear during her interviews. That said, I think she did expect the usual amount (~20%) and was surprised to see it was substantially more.

[Narkeere]

I think many people misinterpreted her reaction. I was shocked when I saw it! Dont think its an identity issue she was just shocked that it was so much. I dont think African- Americans are in denial about our genetic makeup

[connandoilee]

She's only shocked at the amount of Euro ancestry, if you had no known white immediate ancestors and ended up almost 50% Euro wouldn't you be shocked too? I'm pretty sure most of the Aframs here who did 23andMe were some what shock at some of their results.

Also she didn't like it, and spoke about rape.

[bestbyV]

Also she didn't like it, and spoke about rape.

Ok, but it was the perecentage that shocked her, not having Euro ancestry since nearly all Aframs blieve one of our ancestors got raped and impregnated.

[xresultsearch]

I think many people misinterpreted her reaction. I was shocked when I saw it! Dont think its an identity issue she was just shocked that it was so much. I dont think African- Americans are in denial about our genetic makeup

I wouldn't use the word denial, but I would use the word oblivious.

---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 07:48 ----------

Ok, but it was the perecentage that shocked her, not having Euro ancestry since nearly all Aframs blieve one of our ancestors got raped and impregnated.

Yes there was rape in your ancestral countries of Barbados and Haiti, that's why there's Euro genes found on tests for people of those islands.

[Hervams]

I wouldn't use the word denial, but I would use the word oblivious.

---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 07:48 ----------



Yes there was rape in your ancestral countries of Barbados and Haiti, that's why there's Euro genes found on tests for people of those islands.

Well it wasn't that bad with us since we paid the man back.

[alias]

Ok, but it was the perecentage that shocked her, not having Euro ancestry since nearly all Aframs blieve one of our ancestors got raped and impregnated.

Yes, she said she pitied her black ancestors for being "too raped" by Euros.

[foonlesse]

Well I have seen pictures of her as a young girl and she looks more mixed then than now.

But I believe the shock comes from Afram community accepting this Black identity (which I have said on here is a problem that needs to be resolved once and for all)

[Nzmoafzn]

Yes, she said she pitied her black ancestors for being "too raped" by Euros.

People are still pretending that there was no consensual interracial pairing going on and just put it all on rape.

Did you see the episode with John Lewis when he found out that his ancestors helped to defend their owners property from Union soldiers of their own accord while he was gone and later after the war he gave them a house and land to live on. When asked how he felt about it he said that it made sense because his ancestors and their master had become basically family. At least he had a positive attitude.

[treawittelf]

Well it wasn't that bad with us since we paid the man back.

[pkopwqzsdcvbn]

People are still pretending that there was no consensual interracial pairing going on and just put it all on rape.

Of course there were historically consensual pairings and a few members here have spoken about any voluntary connection that may exist in their own families. That is not what ticks people off.

But the point is most of the European admixture in the African American population did not come from people who simply fell in love and volunteered to start a romance which is why it is a touchy issue. If that were the case, I'd highly doubt people would feel as emotional and disgusted about it as they do. What we're talking about here is rape and other forms of coercion dealt by masters and overseers (an often overlooked category) against slave women, unwilling concubines, and precariously situated "fancy women" these parties used for sexual gratification on the side outside of their marriages. It was anything but love in those cases.

[mortgrhhh]

She's only shocked at the amount of Euro ancestry, if you had no known white immediate ancestors and ended up almost 50% Euro wouldn't you be shocked too? I'm pretty sure most of the Aframs here who did 23andMe were some what shock at some of their results.

Her mother looked very admixed (to the point of looking predominantly European) and likely had some immediate European ancestry. Her surprise is probably from correlating her own phenotype to a imagined genotype; regardless of the fact that Condoleezza has a unique phenotype.

Anyways she's probably more like 60-65% African; while not average, it's still within range. Her father looked "Griffe", while her mother looked "mulatto", explaining the results imho.