MVP Debate; Brees vs. Rodgers - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**triardwonvada** · 02-01-2012, 06:31 PM

I have brought this up before, but the Packers and Saints had 8 common opponents this year, covering 11 total games.

Tampa, ATL, Carolina, Rams, Giants, Vikings, Lions, Bears.

That is a large statistical sample, fully 73% of the schedule [11 out of 15].

Plus they palyed head to head.

The head to head was won by Rodgers and he had better stats. But it was a home game, so I thorw that out.

Rodgers played in 10 of these games. Brees in 11

Rodgers: 232 out of 338 for 3160 9.3 per attempt 68.6% 31 TDs and 4 Ints. A passer rating of 151
Won-lost record: 10-0

Brees: 307 out of 438 for 3674 yards 8.4 per attempt 70.1% 32 TDs and 10 Ints. A passer rating of 110.28
Won-lost record: 9-2

9 of these 11 games for the Saints were indoors, which means Brees was never throwing a wet ball or a ball affected by the wind in those games.

In the two outdoor games, Brese threw 3 TDs and 4 ints combined [at Carolina and Tampa]

Rodgers' "worst" game of this sample was also outdoors [Giants], where he threw 4 TDs and 1 int. for 106.2 passer rating. He also drove the team to a winning feild goal.

**Alice_Medichi34** · 02-01-2012, 06:43 PM

This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying.
Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is.

**triardwonvada** · 02-01-2012, 07:17 PM

This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying.
Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is.

Chase Daniel.

Rushing yards. Rodgers 257 and 3 TDs

Brees 86 and 1.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 07:28 PM

This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying.
Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is.

But the award isn't for the team, it's for the league.

If it was for the team, the debate would be between Rodgers and Peyton Manning.

**Alice_Medichi34** · 02-01-2012, 07:29 PM

But the award isn't for the team, it's for the league.

If it was for the team, the debate would be between Rodgers and Peyton Manning.

Regardless, I feel Brees is the MVP whereas the Packers have the better overall TEAM.

15-1 should not solely reflect on Rodgers..

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 07:33 PM

Regardless, I feel Brees is the MVP whereas the Packers have the better overall TEAM.

15-1 should not solely reflect on Rodgers..

The record is only a part of it. The individual stats are huge. Brees had more than twice as many INT's as Rodgers, but only one more passing TD in one more game played.

Rodgers was far more efficient than Brees, and led his team to more points- and not just passing, but running the ball as well. At the same time, he limited the extra possessions given to the opponents far better than Brees did.

**CathBraunn** · 02-01-2012, 07:40 PM

I predict Co-MVP

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 07:45 PM

I predict Co-MVP

Only slightly less retarded than the last time they did that.

**CathBraunn** · 02-01-2012, 07:46 PM

Only slightly less retarded than the last time they did that.

It's going to happen, both teams are in the playoffs, both Qb's are red hot, both broke a record this year. Co-MVP

**spamkillerf** · 02-01-2012, 07:52 PM

Rodgers may play for an overall better team, but his consistency should be rewarded. Brees had some bumps in the road that cost his team wins against two bottom feeder teams (Rams and Bucs). It's why he's playing this week and Rodgers has the week off.

Rodgers, and it should be unanimous.

**triardwonvada** · 02-01-2012, 08:11 PM

If you want to make it about supporting cast:

Who had the better WRs?

Who had the better TEs?

Who had the better receiving threat out of the backfield?

Who had the better offensive line?

I could only give the edge to the Packers in one of those departments.

**paralelogram** · 02-01-2012, 08:27 PM

I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 08:37 PM

I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs.

INT's and rushing yards. And yards per completion.

But I agree, no player should lose out on an award due to a coaching decision.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 08:39 PM

If you want to make it about supporting cast:

Who had the better WRs?

Who had the better TEs?

Who had the better receiving threat out of the backfield?

Who had the better offensive line?

I could only give the edge to the Packers in one of those departments.

Packers have the WR's, but it's pretty close.
Packer's have more depth at TE, but weapon wise, Saints take it.
Yeah...Sproles, no contest.
At 100% health, this may be a wash. But the Packers haven't been at 100% here for awhile, and may not be for the rest of this season.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 08:40 PM

Rodgers may play for an overall better team, but his consistency should be rewarded. Brees had some bumps in the road that cost his team wins against two bottom feeder teams (Rams and Bucs). It's why he's playing this week and Rodgers has the week off.

Rodgers, and it should be unanimous.

The contrarian trend among modern sports writers makes this doubtful, though.

**triardwonvada** · 02-01-2012, 08:43 PM

I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs.

He has 3 picks in his last two games.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 08:46 PM

He has 3 picks in his last two games.

I wonder if he would have had fewer if he wasn't trying so hard for Marino's record last week and forcing the ball to Graham this week....

**paralelogram** · 02-01-2012, 08:48 PM

Peter King says Rodgers and he actually has a vote.

**tobia** · 02-01-2012, 08:54 PM

On thing about the "system", and of course there is a system--Payton has one in New Orleans, McCarthy has one in Green Bay- any QB putting up those kind of numbers is benefitting from a system.

But the real test is how efficient they are at running the system. Rodgers runs it better than Brett did. And the proof is in the turnovers. 6 INT's in 502 attempts is amazing efficiency(1.1% of his passes were intercepted). To compare to Flynn in that same system, he had 2 INT's in 49 attempts(4%). Rodgers threw only 4 more picks in 10 times the number of passes.

**Pataacculakp** · 02-01-2012, 09:38 PM

I'm fine with either winning it. I'd lean toward Brees but can't argue against Rodgers.

02-01-2012, 06:31 PM	#1
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	MVP Debate; Brees vs. Rodgers I have brought this up before, but the Packers and Saints had 8 common opponents this year, covering 11 total games. Tampa, ATL, Carolina, Rams, Giants, Vikings, Lions, Bears. That is a large statistical sample, fully 73% of the schedule [11 out of 15]. Plus they palyed head to head. The head to head was won by Rodgers and he had better stats. But it was a home game, so I thorw that out. Rodgers played in 10 of these games. Brees in 11 Rodgers: 232 out of 338 for 3160 9.3 per attempt 68.6% 31 TDs and 4 Ints. A passer rating of 151 Won-lost record: 10-0 Brees: 307 out of 438 for 3674 yards 8.4 per attempt 70.1% 32 TDs and 10 Ints. A passer rating of 110.28 Won-lost record: 9-2 9 of these 11 games for the Saints were indoors, which means Brees was never throwing a wet ball or a ball affected by the wind in those games. In the two outdoor games, Brese threw 3 TDs and 4 ints combined [at Carolina and Tampa] Rodgers' "worst" game of this sample was also outdoors [Giants], where he threw 4 TDs and 1 int. for 106.2 passer rating. He also drove the team to a winning feild goal. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 06:43 PM	#2
Alice_Medichi34 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 606 Senior Member	This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying. Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 07:17 PM	#3
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying. Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is. Chase Daniel. Rushing yards. Rodgers 257 and 3 TDs Brees 86 and 1. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 07:28 PM	#4
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	This is an interesting topic now especially after Flynn's game yesterday. To me, one does more for his team slightly more than the other. The Packers have proven that even without Rodgers their team is so solid and scheme so efficient that a guy like Flynn can come in and win. Thats not a jab at Rodgers either, just saying. Can Brees' back up and perform at that level given the system and the tools made available? I dont know, in fact I cant even tell you who Brees' back up is. But the award isn't for the team, it's for the league. If it was for the team, the debate would be between Rodgers and Peyton Manning. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 07:29 PM	#5
Alice_Medichi34 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 606 Senior Member	But the award isn't for the team, it's for the league. If it was for the team, the debate would be between Rodgers and Peyton Manning. Regardless, I feel Brees is the MVP whereas the Packers have the better overall TEAM. 15-1 should not solely reflect on Rodgers.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 07:33 PM	#6
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	Regardless, I feel Brees is the MVP whereas the Packers have the better overall TEAM. 15-1 should not solely reflect on Rodgers.. The record is only a part of it. The individual stats are huge. Brees had more than twice as many INT's as Rodgers, but only one more passing TD in one more game played. Rodgers was far more efficient than Brees, and led his team to more points- and not just passing, but running the ball as well. At the same time, he limited the extra possessions given to the opponents far better than Brees did. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 07:40 PM	#7
CathBraunn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	I predict Co-MVP Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 07:45 PM	#8
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	I predict Co-MVP Only slightly less retarded than the last time they did that. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 07:46 PM	#9
CathBraunn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	Only slightly less retarded than the last time they did that. It's going to happen, both teams are in the playoffs, both Qb's are red hot, both broke a record this year. Co-MVP Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 07:52 PM	#10
spamkillerf Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 607 Senior Member	Rodgers may play for an overall better team, but his consistency should be rewarded. Brees had some bumps in the road that cost his team wins against two bottom feeder teams (Rams and Bucs). It's why he's playing this week and Rodgers has the week off. Rodgers, and it should be unanimous. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 08:11 PM	#11
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	If you want to make it about supporting cast: Who had the better WRs? Who had the better TEs? Who had the better receiving threat out of the backfield? Who had the better offensive line? I could only give the edge to the Packers in one of those departments. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 08:27 PM	#12
paralelogram Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 08:37 PM	#13
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs. INT's and rushing yards. And yards per completion. But I agree, no player should lose out on an award due to a coaching decision. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 08:39 PM	#14
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	If you want to make it about supporting cast: Who had the better WRs? Who had the better TEs? Who had the better receiving threat out of the backfield? Who had the better offensive line? I could only give the edge to the Packers in one of those departments. Packers have the WR's, but it's pretty close. Packer's have more depth at TE, but weapon wise, Saints take it. Yeah...Sproles, no contest. At 100% health, this may be a wash. But the Packers haven't been at 100% here for awhile, and may not be for the rest of this season. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 08:40 PM	#15
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	Rodgers may play for an overall better team, but his consistency should be rewarded. Brees had some bumps in the road that cost his team wins against two bottom feeder teams (Rams and Bucs). It's why he's playing this week and Rodgers has the week off. Rodgers, and it should be unanimous. The contrarian trend among modern sports writers makes this doubtful, though. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 08:43 PM	#16
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	I hope Rodgers doesn't lose the MVP b/c he sat yesterday. Sounds stupid I know, but Brees' recent performances are fresh in people's mind. The only statistic that separates them are INTs. He has 3 picks in his last two games. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 08:46 PM	#17
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	He has 3 picks in his last two games. I wonder if he would have had fewer if he wasn't trying so hard for Marino's record last week and forcing the ball to Graham this week.... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 08:48 PM	#18
paralelogram Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	Peter King says Rodgers and he actually has a vote. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-01-2012, 08:54 PM	#19
tobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	On thing about the "system", and of course there is a system--Payton has one in New Orleans, McCarthy has one in Green Bay- any QB putting up those kind of numbers is benefitting from a system. But the real test is how efficient they are at running the system. Rodgers runs it better than Brett did. And the proof is in the turnovers. 6 INT's in 502 attempts is amazing efficiency(1.1% of his passes were intercepted). To compare to Flynn in that same system, he had 2 INT's in 49 attempts(4%). Rodgers threw only 4 more picks in 10 times the number of passes. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-01-2012, 09:38 PM	#20
Pataacculakp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 463 Senior Member	I'm fine with either winning it. I'd lean toward Brees but can't argue against Rodgers. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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