[NeroASERCH]

A large group of hungry people go to a multi-cuisine restaurant.
Some people order typical Indian light food like thosai & chapati
Some others would like to eat heavier stuff like rice with curry or naan and tandoori.
Then there is some who would like to eat noodles and others who would like to eat chicken chop & condiments.

Each person eats what fulfils his hunger and taste bud. Each food is not inferior or superior to another.
Neither does one food feels neglected when you do not eat it.
The idea is to fill the stomach. Thats it.

[Peptobismol]

I knew God wouldn't mind as long as I worship him/her in any form. God does not need worship or acknowledgement. He will survive your ignoring him.
Do your duties and do not expect anything in return. Uphold dharma.

[PhillipHer]

Anbu Sir,

Yes, I'm from London, one of the worlds multicultural melting pots

Sanatana Dharma (The eternal law) as read on Wiki (A site open to edit) states that amongst polytheism, monotheism and pantheism even atheism is encompassed as a set of a belief.

I've got a friend, from India (Also Hindu) who came to study here in the UK. He asked me a VALID question, to which I became hesitant to reply and this has had some effect in shaping me. He saw a prayer book in my dorm and asked, "Do you know the meaning of every prayer you read or do you just recite it for the sake of praying?" I paused and he asked me again, "What's the point in praying, if you don't understand the prayer?"

For e.g. Gayatri Mantra - The most universal chant amongst Hinduism and different people from different sects chant this on a day to day basis. I did not know how to translate it and hence couldn't answer his question at that time. I took that scenario as a stepping stone and realized that it's only worth reciting a hymn/chant etc. if you understand it. Hence where possible I try to find translations, otherwise honestly it does seem pretty pointless.

Instead of doing the conventional prayers, he used to directly ask for guidance and express his gratitude via the means of not praying to god. This is better than reciting a prayer which you don’t understand, right? Or does a prayer have more effect, even if you don’t know what you’re reciting? Another notion he put forward, was that all different religious books are manmade. It’s not really the word of God!

Digression - I used to read Hanuman Chalisa every night and started noticing a pattern in my dreams. After chanting this prayer for Hanuman Ji (considered a remover of fear), I used to see myself reminiscing fun times with my junior school friends, who I hardly chat now. Strange but true! – End digression!

Recently, after reading many articles on Sufism and Buddhism I’ve come to an agreement that there is God inside each and every one of us and some of us are enlightened to know this directly this and some aren’t. But after visiting holy places, e.g. mosque, churches and mandir’s I do feel there is God beyond our body. When visiting these places of worship, generally there are herds of people who share and are surrounded by the same divine energy. I too feel this energy and don’t think it’s just a contagious feeling that everyone does just to fit in the scene.

BTW, my granddad belongs to the Arya Samaj sect of Hinduism, who prohibit the of idol worshiping and worship “Aum” instead, but after my mum joined the family, he became a devotee of Shiv Ji. Having faith is “Aum” is a great idea for
Monotheist Hindus.

I asked a Muslim friend, who like me isn’t religious but spiritual. He also question’s the idea of religion but does believe in God. I told him that I don’t see the idea of worshiping a stone to which he replied, “Did you know that idol worshiping exists in Islam?” Down the convo he said the main reciting they do is “a Ilaha Illallah Muhammad Rasool Allah” translated to “There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God”

Hence, when Muslims go to dargahs and pray to a grave/tomb of a saint or peer it is considered idol worshiping. To make me feel better about Hinduism, he said idol worshiping is only seen as a focal point.

Sorry to drag the convo into many digressions, but sometimes I really do not know where I stand with religion.

Nov, WRT to our convo on FB, the day we meet, before doing anything else, we should deffo go for a phat meal

[radikal]

different ppl have different ways of finding god

being judgmental takes you away from real spirituality

imagine hinduism as a complete education system from kindergarden to multi-phd's and doctorates.
ppl are at different levels of spirituality
only the arrogant high school kid will look down on the kindergarden kid
our purpose in life is to advance ourselves... so lets worry only abt our progress

there is really nothing wrong or right

[Lillie_Steins]

Isckon subsidiary,.

I used to work in oxford circus, this is where their main chanting/march used to be, they also have Radha Krishna mandir in Soho, which I have attended at tender age I was really moved by such movement! But I have realised that this movement has no rational/logical answers regarding the supreme! They are simply a fanatical movement founded in 1960's and were a cult like movement, it started off in USA! I would stay away from such movement and start the realisation of divine within you.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Though I may not follow a certain sect, I still respect every sect. In relation to Isckon, if its followers are reaping personal benefits from the chants, then who are we to question whether this sect is fanatical or not?

[Lt_Apple]

Though I may not follow a certain sect, I still respect every sect.

thats one positive step forward in spirituality

[9mm_fan]

Though I may not follow a certain sect, I still respect every sect. In relation to Isckon, if its followers are reaping personal benefits from the chants, then who are we to question whether this sect is fanatical or not?

What I am saying is it is no use following any faiths, as faiths and reality are two different things! Start the jounery from within

[Beerinkol]

Though I may not follow a certain sect, I still respect every sect. In relation to Isckon, if its followers are reaping personal benefits from the chants, then who are we to question whether this sect is fanatical or not?

Sects and Faiths are man made, of course you have to respect every sects, cultures, religion (man made), etc etc this is just the "human thing" it has nothing to do with spirituality

[Lillie_Steins]

different ppl have different ways of finding god

being judgmental takes you away from real spirituality

imagine hinduism as a complete education system from kindergarden to multi-phd's and doctorates.
ppl are at different levels of spirituality
only the arrogant high school kid will look down on the kindergarden kid
our purpose in life is to advance ourselves... so lets worry only abt our progress

there is really nothing wrong or right

My motto is, as long as you're true to yourself then you don't need to worry about following religious practices e.g. giving up meat, fasting, performing penchants like an ascetic etc. God is there and if you acknowledge him, you automatically get self satisfaction! (No need for atheists to pounce on me, this is just my belief and if anyone disagrees then let's just agree to disagree)

[doctorzlo]

There is no point in talking trying to understand the "Cosmic energy" as we will never understand it. Just understand that fact we are part of this "divine cosmic energy" within us! The rest are just Maya!

[9mm_fan]

There is no point in talking trying to understand the "Cosmic energy" as we will never understand it. Just understand that fact we are part of this "divine cosmic energy" within us! The rest are just Maya!

Exactly, that's why I've chosen to be an agnostic theist #circularreasoning

[Paul Bunyan]

sunil, giving up meat is good, giving up food as something that palates the taste is better....ie food only for survival
ridding ourselves completely of all desires will be the ultimate
that means no love, no greed, no envy, no disgust, no jealousy, no likes.... total detachment... its like watching ourselves acting out on the world stage without any feelings.
possible?
no?
lets enjoy life for what it is, without hurting or harming others.
that should suffice

[S.T.D.]

Harming others, wrong? Yes!
Eating meat, wrong? No!

Sorry for stating the obvious but hunting and eating an animal is different to eating an animal which has been brought from supermarket, restaurant etc. I personally have no attention of killing an animal and eating it, no one does unless you're twisted or have no option of surviving. Yes, I agree more nutrients are present in veggie food but plants have lives as well, right?

What I find funny is in India, or generally in the olden days regardless of country the main source of food was meat. There are doctrines on animals being sacrificed to God (Hinduism), including cows.

This is where the conflicting of ideas lies, which supports the ideas of various beliefs being covered by the blanket term of Hinduism.

[MannoFr]

Eating meat, wrong? No!

when did i say that?

[softy54534]

sunil, giving up meat is good

My bad, I stand corrected!

[softy54534]

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Sunil avargaLE.

I'm from London, one of the worlds multicultural melting pots Good to know that.

Sanatana Dharma (The eternal law) as read on Wiki (A site open to edit) states that amongst polytheism, monotheism and pantheism even atheism is encompassed as a set of a belief. If Wiki says that, Wiki is wrong. A system of faith can be a part of Sanatana Dharma if and only if it does not reject the claims of the Veda. And Sanatana Dharma is Hinduism. Atheism, which rejects belief in any supernatural entities whatsoever, rejects claims like rebirth and the principle of Karma, cannot be within Hinduism. A tradition can be a subtradition of Hinduism if and only if there is no rejection of the principle of rebirth, the principle of Karma (action reaction across births), the principle of Natural Order called Dharma, and the authority of the Veda in settling philosophical questions.

He saw a prayer book in my dorm and asked, "Do you know the meaning of every prayer you read or do you just recite it for the sake of praying?" I paused and he asked me again, "What's the point in praying, if you don't understand the prayer?"

For e.g. Gayatri Mantra - The most universal chant amongst Hinduism and different people from different sects chant this on a day to day basis. I did not know how to translate it and hence couldn't answer his question at that time. I took that scenario as a stepping stone and realized that it's only worth reciting a hymn/chant etc. if you understand it. Hence where possible I try to find translations, otherwise honestly it does seem pretty pointless. Sunilji, there is no issue in trying to understand the meaning of a prayer before praying. But its incorrect to say that there is *no* use whatsoever in trying to pray without knowing its meaning.

For example, when we were children, we were taught many little rhymes to memorise and sing. From an adults perspective, the child has no understanding of these rhymes, their meaning is trivial, and therefore it is useless. Yet, it can definitely be said that these rhymes help the child to comprehend and reproduce sounds, to get some hold on the form and structure of language, and does indeed contribute in a small way to the child's development. Similarly, during school, we were taught so many subjects which are not relevant to our life today. Yet studying each of these subjects was not useless, simply because they helped us to understand how to go about studying itself (besides the obvious GK, increase in memory capacity,etc).


Of course, the analogies above only to illustrate a point that there are several things in our life which are useful even before we understand their meaning. In the same way, the prayers, even without understanding the meaning, reap fruit if they are chanted with faith and humility. The fruits of prayer will be more if they are told keeping the meaning in mind, but they are not useless even otherwise. Of course, really speaking this statement about prayer has to be taken on faith only.

Another notion he put forward, was that all different religious books are manmade. It’s not really the word of God! There is no evidence for the claim that all religious books are man made. But it is definitely a logical statement. If you have read about the Veda, you would have noticed that it has no authorship associated with it, which is rather unlike the other religions.

But after visiting holy places, e.g. mosque, churches and mandir’s I do feel there is God beyond our body. When visiting these places of worship, generally there are herds of people who share and are surrounded by the same divine energy. I too feel this energy and don’t think it’s just a contagious feeling that everyone does just to fit in the scene. First I must ask you here. What you do think "God" is anyway? Is it a person or something else? Without defining it, it might not be accurate to say that "God is beyond our body" or "God is within each of us". People generally have some conceptualization of "God" as a "non-material" entity that they know from common parlance. But the technical definition(s) for God in Hinduism is(are) different and rather based on common sense and the individual's capability to understand.

I told him that I don’t see the idea of worshiping a stone to which he replied, “Did you know that idol worshiping exists in Islam?” No devout Hindu believes he is "worshiping a stone". There is no awkwardness in his manner of worshiping, for through the stone shines the Lord himself and he is pretty clear that it is that Lord that is worshiped. People who claim to not worship idols and yet claim to be religious are funny, because they then start worshiping some other symbol, like the Swastika or Om or the Kabba or a Cross or some other mental image. The essential point here is that *any* form of worship requires an image as a second entity to oneself. Now this image can be either material or mental. There can really be *no* worship but idol worship, only that in some cases the idol is actually made of some material, in other cases, it is an insignia, and in some others, it is a mental image. In any case, to one who is a believer, each represents the Divinity only.

Nov, WRT to our convo on FB, the day we meet, before doing anything else, we should deffo go for a phat mea I don't remember us chatting on facebook! Perhaps I am forgetting things, or you got me confused with someone else.

Love and Light.

[Lt_Apple]

Folks

Let’s apply some logics here, where does this idea of "GOD" come in your mind? You come out of your mother’s womb and awestruck by all the creation around you, so by applying a bit of logic and you come to a conclusion that in order for the creations to exist, there must be a creator / GOD. This concept exists within your mind!

This concept does not exist for you when you are asleep, unconscious or in a coma. But you are still alive right, how ? It is that divine cosmic energy is still residing within you! This is why you should turn inwards to seek spirituality. But Majority of people seek the Creator outside using the 5 sensory organs, these organs are meant for survival and are capable detecting the physical elements only. GOD/CREATOR/COSMIC ENERGY is not physical, hence can not be understood by sensory organs!

[S.T.D.]

Sir, your post was definitely enlightening and throughly thought provoking. I think my doubts have been cleared and will definite forward your passage about praying to my friend.

First I must ask you here. What you do think "God" is anyway? Is it a person or something else? Without defining it, it might not be accurate to say that "God is beyond our body" or "God is within each of us". People generally have some conceptualization of "God" as a "non-material" entity that they know from common parlance. But the technical definition(s) for God in Hinduism is(are) different and rather based on common sense and the individual's capability to understand.

The FB line was only directed to NOV, so please dw and it's because he used cuisine as a metaphor for polytheism which reminded me of our private banter which has nothing to do with the context of this thread