[Ifroham4]

When an elephant called Ashwathama dies,Krishna asks Yudishtra to tell a lie.Yudhishtira refuses to tell a lie.So,Krishna asks him to tell "Aswathama kapi kunjaraha"

Forgive me if I am wrong.My idea is that as per Krishna's advice the Pandavas named an elephant 'Aswathama'.Then Bheema killed that elephant.The Pandava group cried out that 'Aswathama is dead'! Then Drona asked Yudhishtira whether it is true.He said "Aswathama HRUTHA frumgaya'.He pronounced the word which I have written in caps in a low voice[which means elephant] so as to make Drona believe that his son is dead.

I am so confused about this as I have little knowledge about Sanskrit and I speak from memory.Some one to clear this stuff please?I don't mind acknowledging that I am very weak at other languages!

[radikal]

Viggop,no misunderstandings.

I consider Bhishma,Karna and Abhimanyu as the greatest characters in Mahabharatha.I don't agree with the bad friendship aspect of the Karna-Duryodhana relationship expressed by Walrus here.I believe even if there were personal reasons for Karna being allied with the Kauravas,it was just and reasonable for him to do so.

Mahabharatha is a great epic of trust,valour,deceit,greed and dharma.

A particular incident which unfolds great drama is the killing of Drona by making him believe that his son Aswathama is dead and taking advantage of his love for his son.
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Discussing this particular topic reminds me a little incident of religious tolerance.Years back when DD was telecasting this serial,my local parish church postponed the sunday mass by 30 minutes to let us watch it! Consider that our little village has 90%christians in the total population! Those are ways we have forgotten far back!

[Ifroham4]

Viggop,
Yayati's story is different. I think the king you are referring to is Vichitra Veerya(or Veeran?). Yayati was another ancient king whose storyline is somewhat similar to Dushyantha.

Actually Viggop is right. The Mahabharatha story can be said to start with Yayati. He was the forefather of the Kuru line. Yayati had three sons, and lived to a ripe old age, when he wanted to enjoy the pleasures of youth again. He approached each son, and requested them to exchange their youth for his old age. The first 2 refused, and only the 3rd Puru accepted to sacrifice his youth to satisfy his father's desire. Yayati further enjoyed as a young man, with renewed vigour, when wisdom finally dawned on him that no matter how much one strives to enjoy the pleasures of the world, one never gets truly satisfied. Much chastened, he returned the youth back to Puru and further rewards him by making him the heir to the throne although he was the third son. One of Yayati's son founds the Yadava race. Puru's descendants became the Kuru clan to which both the Kauravas and the Pandavas belonged.

[MannoFr]

I think Karna was trying to pass over as a brahmin to some guru.But,Krishna takes the form of a scorion and keeps on biting him when the guru sleeps on Karna's lap.Blood gushes forth but Karna bears the severe pain so as not to wake up his guru.After the guru wakes up and asks Karna the reason for so much blood.When Karna tells him the reason,he immediately knows that Karna cannot be a brahmin because brahmins cannot withstand that much pain as they are not strong people.Only a person from Kshatriya class(royal lineage) can withstand it and curses Karna for lying.


Also, remember that the above incident takes place long before the war has even started.So,Krishna being the suthradari(one who is cause of everything),comes as a scorpion even then knowing fully what will happen in the future.

Krishna also comes as a brahmin and asks Karna for all his good karma as otherwise the soul does not leave the body.Even when he is dying,karna grants it to him.

[Paul Bunyan]

Also , who curses Lord Krishna that his yadava clan will be wiped out? Is it Kunthi or Gandhari?

it was Ghandari, she curses Lord Krishna in Kurusheshtra, after seeing al the corpses and the mourning of the widows

[Lillie_Steins]

I think Karna was trying to pass over as a brahmin to some guru.But,Krishna takes the form of a scorion and keeps on biting him when the guru sleeps on Karna's lap.Blood gushes forth but Karna bears the severe pain so as not to wake up his guru.After the guru wakes up and asks Karna the reason for so much blood.When Karna tells him the reason,he immediately knows that Karna cannot be a brahmin because brahmins cannot withstand that much pain as they are not strong people.Only a person from Kshatriya class(royal lineage) can withstand it and curses Karna for lying.

that was rishi Parashuram

[PhillipHer]

Karna was also a great donor.Arjuna's arrows could not kill him because of his accumulated Dharma.

Lord Krishna had to disguise himself as a poor brahmin and ask for all the good dharma as Bhiksha.only after Karna gives that,his life departs.So,Lord Krishna blesses him that he'll reach the heaven for warriors.

Did you know that Hanuman from Satya Yuga was on Arjuna Chariot, protecting him all the way, as per Lord Krishna's request? ,

Hanuman ji also came to test the physical strength of Bhima in Mahabarath.

[MannoFr]

Dear BlahBlah
Mahabharatha is an Indian Mythology.Hindu Gods play a part in it because at those times all were following Hinduism in India.

All people of Indian origin can ***own*** it and comment on it.

Karna was also a great donor.Arjuna's arrows could not kill him because of his accumulated Dharma.

Lord Krishna had to disguise himself as a poor brahmin and ask for all the good dharma as Bhiksha.only after Karna gives that,his life departs.So,Lord Krishna blesses him that he'll reach the heaven for warriors.

[Drugmachine]

Hi !

I dont know whether this posting is relevant here.. But the name "Aswathama" made me recollect about a description from the novel of popular marathi writer V.S.Kandekar.(in his novel Amudhakkodi.....of course I read it only in tamil).

There he describes Aswathama as the sole representative of mankind..

Why ?

He has been devoid of mother's love.. no milk.. only flour mixed in water..
Nothing from his famour father DronA... Though his father loved him.. his best pupil was Arjuna only
No good friends... Duryodhana gave Anga desh to Karna but nothing to Aswathama
No marriage or wife...
No speacial positions in Kurukshetra war also..
Duryodhana made him "Senapathi" after he lost everything in the battlefield.. A senapathi without Sena !
Even then Aswathama killed the upa pAndavAs and took revenge.
With his name even Yudhistra told his only lie ! ( of his lifetime)

He lost even the jewel from his head, which will give him eternal pain and a bloody hole...

There is only one way to escape from all the problems of life.. DEATH..
But he is a Chiranjeevi and fate closed even that door for him..
So, even today he is roaming with a bloody head and pain with no end to his sorrows... searching for something.. which may or may not occur..

Likewise, every human being in this world is having eternal pain inside and searching for a solace..

So.. Ashwathama is the real representative of human being in Mahabaratha..

(I am not a good writer.. I just try to recollect it..If somebody knows more about this may plz post it)

thanks

[MannoFr]

was the greatest warrior Karna Right about his Dharma, ie, even though he knew that his
dearest friend Dhoriyodhana was fighting an adharma Yuth, and he will be fighting his own brothers?

Are his reasons justified by the fact, his life was indebted to Dhoriyodhana, I think he chose
the right path, any different opinions?

[brraverishhh]

Viggop,
Yayati's story is different. I think the king you are referring to is Vichitra Veerya(or Veeran?). Yayati was another ancient king whose storyline is somewhat similar to Dushyantha.

Reminded of the Mahabharat series that ran on Doordarshan starting Sunday October 2 1988. Interestingly, the Seoul Olympics ended that day

Vichitra Veerya rules over Hastinapur and during the course of his hunting expeditions, happen to encounter Ganga and marries her..Ganga is of course the sea goddess who tosses 7 of their children into the sea. The moment Vichitra questions her, she leaves him for good.

wait a minute, if my memory is right, VV was father to Dhritharashtra and Pandu. If thats the case, VV is not the guy who married ganga...did Pandu and Dh.... come up so early in the family tree?

anyways, the mahabharat on TV was good fun(Oct 88 to May 90) - lot of old Hindi actors/actresses. Rupa Ganguly played Draupadi, Nitish Bharadwaj as Krishna, Puneet Issar as Duryodhan(following his successful portrayal, Puneet enjoyed a fine casting in a murder mystery serial that ran Thursday nights 9:50), Praveen Kumar as Bheema - Praveen is none else but the guy who won the discus bronze medal for India in the Teheran Asian Games 1974

[9mm_fan]

Also , who curses Lord Krishna that his yadava clan will be wiped out? Is it Kunthi or Gandhari?

That was Gandhari. There's another reason for the extinction of the Yadhava Kulam. After Krishna the Yadhavas are so proud, they are blinded. They just drank, and partied, drank and partied etc. One day there are some Rishis doing a Yaagam and the Yadhavas are completly drunk. They decide to mess around with the Rishies so they dress one of the Yadhavas as a Pregnant Woman and disturb the Rishis Thabas. The Rishi knows what's going on due to Nyana Dhristi, but still remains calm. The Yadhavas are presistent in their annoying behavior and finally the Rishi, now pushed to his limits curses,
"Ivanukku oru irumbu thoon pirakkum, antha thoon un Kulathai azhikkum!"
Meaning, He will give birth to a huge iron piller and that pillar will destroy the Yadhava Kula.
The Yadhavas don't take this seriously, and finally leave, on their way to the Palace, one of the Yadhavas starts getting contractions, and very painfully, gives birth to an iron pillar! The other Yadhavas now petrified decide that they can't let the piller excist, because the curse stated that it will destroy the Yadhavas. So they somehow grind it up and rid it in the middle of the ocean. After a few days the waves bring the iron powder to the shore, (that's why u can still find metal on the beaches with a Magnet) This powder some how fertilizes a certain area of the beach, and huge thorn weeds start growing. Later, as usual the Yadhavas are drinking and messing around with each other, when one of them gets pushed into the thorn bush, and hurts his arm. Now enraged, he breaks one of the branches off, and uses it as a weapon against the individual that pushed him down, now this guy does the same, and it turns into a huge fight, and eventually leads to the demise of the Yadhavs.

Regards. 8)

[Lt_Apple]

Discussing this particular topic reminds me a little incident of religious tolerance.Years back when DD was telecasting this serial,my local parish church postponed the sunday mass by 30 minutes to let us watch it! Consider that our little village has 90%christians in the total population! Those are ways we have forgotten far back!

Oh!! that's really heart warming and great blahblah !! Thanks for sharing it here. But hardly it opens a bigot's eyes. See how the way some 'preachers' are making fun of Pope's health condition

[Beerinkol]

Raghu
I know that Hanuman came as an old monkey and destroyed the arrogance of Bhima in Mahabharatha.

How come Hanuman was in chariot of Arjuna? I have not read this story.

[TorryJens]

How come Hanuman was in chariot of Arjuna? I have not read this story.

Yes, this is true, I have seen This on the Krishna Series, Once Karna has been Killed, Lord Krishna takes Arjuna to a secret place, and tells him to come off the chariot, and he calls for Hanuman ji, who appears in front of him from the chariot, and as soon as Hanuman ji leaves the chariot, it blows into pieces and the lord Krishna tells Arjuna that Hanuman Ji was protecting him from the formidable & ferocious force of Ankaraj Karna.

[MannoFr]

After Drona's death,Duryodhana appoints Ashwathama as the chief commander of Kaurava army.Ashwathama to avenge the death of his father by foul means,does a foul act in the night.He sneaks into the Pandava army camp in the night and kills five sons of arjuna thinking that they are pandavas themselves.
Arjuna gets mad at this and wows to kill Ashwathama.But ,both are great warriors and both know how to use the brahma astra.(supposed to be the most powerful weapon)
In the war,when ashwathama & Arjuna meet,they both use brahma astra.This will lead to a major catastrophe so Krishna asks both to withdraw that weapon.Arjuna complies but Ashwathama refuses and so Krishna uses his divine powers to stop it.
But,i think it still causes lot of destruction to pandava army.

Angered by Ashwathama's refusal to withdraw his weapon,Krishna curses him thus

"Since you thought your victory depends on death of others,your defeat will depend on your living till eternity!" .

Thus,Ashwathama beccomes a chiranjevi.Krishna then plucks out a jewel which was in Ashwathama's head from the moment he was born and this causes him lot of pain.
Thus Ashwathama has to withstand all the pain and he has no death to relieve him of that pain.Painful lIfe for him

[Lillie_Steins]

It is sad that sometimes the only way we get information about our immortal epics is by way of TV serials.

Anyway, hehewalrus, that was Shantanu. He was Bheesma's father. It was he who married Ganga.

Madhu, regarding your question about Karna, I have this to share with you.

was the greatest warrior Karna Right about his Dharma, ie, even though he knew that his
dearest friend Dhoriyodhana was fighting an adharma Yuth, and he will be fighting his own brothers?

Are his reasons justified by the fact, his life was indebted to Dhoriyodhana, I think he chose
the right path, any different opinions? Actually, although at face value, what Karna did seems right to everyone, and therefore, Krishna and Arjuna seem to be the villains of the piece in unfairly killing Karna, consider the following argument.

Karna was ridiculed as a mere charioteer's son even though he excelled in the archery contest. Duryodhana for his own selfish reasons more than friendship for Karna immediately stepped in and offered Karna a kingdom, and made him the king of Anga Desa.

This made Karna indebted to Duryodhana. So far so good. In fact, the friendship between Karna and Duryodhana was so strong that it seems once Karna was playing dice with Duryodhana's wife when her upper garment slipped and fell, and she did not notice it. Duryodhana, who happened to come by, saw this and he helped her with her dress, without saying a word in anger, meaning he trusted Karna so much.

Excellent relationship. Now comes the tricky question of Dharma. Clearly, what Duryodhana did later on (tricking the Pandavas, and worse, disrobing Draupadi) was wrong. Now, if Raghu, I were really a good friend of you, would I cheer you in your wrong doing, or would I step in and tell you the consequences of your act? Would I counsel you and prevent you from doing something that would bring harm on you, or would I egg you on, and participate along with you in the wrong doing?

This is what Karna did. He, along with Duryodhana, Dusshana and Shakuni became counted as the Dushta Chatushtaya or the Four Villains for his infamous act in disrobing Draupadi. In fact, it was he who suggested it to Duryodhana in the first place.

While people argue that Karna was an epitome of gratitude, nothing can be farther from the truth. In actually leading his best friend down the path of ruin and ultimately to death, he not only brought a blemish on friendship but also on gratitude.

Perhaps by fighting he tried to make amends. Even then, his fight was against Arjuna, so there was the element of personal vendetta too involved in his supporting Duryodhana in the war. It was not purely an unselfish participation, merely for the sake of Duryodhana who had helped him. Therefore in fighting for Duryodhana, there was no question of any dharma at all - neither dharma as in right vs wrong, nor in dharma as in a debt of friendship.

In fact, with respect to Karna, one can say, with friends like these, who needs enemies!!

[MannoFr]

After Drona's death,Duryodhana appoints Ashwathama

No, it was Ankaraj Karna who was appointed as the commander in Chief, Aswathama got appointed after Karna dies

[9mm_fan]

Dear Raghu
Let us stick to the characters of Mahabharatha.Going into dates in tricky and will lead to confusions.

Lakshmana was an avatara of Adi Seshan

[LottiFurmann]

Good one Madhu!
About the philosophical meaning of Ashwathama character.
Why was Ashwathama devoid of mother's milk?
I think Kripi(sister of Kripacharya) was the wife of Drona.

Also , who curses Lord Krishna that his yadava clan will be wiped out? Is it Kunthi or Gandhari?