[Beerinkol]

What a biased thought!

It is height of ignorance or hieght of " "! Sorry I dont have words to comment this. Mr. Vandayaar, I see nothing short of hatred in your thread. You can even interprt "America" to be based on a Tamizh word! Keep it up!

[Peptobismol]

Friends.

Tholkappiyam Datings are now well acepted to 50CE, and further Tholkappiyar says
Vadasol kizavi
vadazezuthu Orie... When you use Sanskrit words, avoid Sanskrit letters such as Ja sha etc.,

Now FSG Lives in an imaginary world spreading venomic views.

Let him give proofs with Reputable Universities of any part of the world, and not few from a begotted club.

My mistake was that I must have said Chinnamanur seppadu.

Now FSG dates the Copper Plate to its date, then we do not have any MANuscript of Tamil that can be dated to earlier than 17th Cen, where as Sanskrit starts from Ist Cen. BCE.

[9mm_fan]

Dear Friends,

There are enough literature and archeological evidences to prove that “Maabharatham” story happened in South India.The purpose of this topic is to prove this truth.

There are no single archeology / linguistic evidances that it happened in north India. The places / people mentioned in Viyasar’s “Mahabharatha” are alienated to North India.

It must be borne in mind that Vedhas were collected and written by Vedha Viyasar by 100 CE and Mahabharatha was also written by him later. Viyasar is a Dravidian, might be from Vaduka Karnataka. He organized Vedhas keeping Tamil’s organized structure of Aram, Porul, Inbam & Veedu (Naanmarai).(1)

Third Sankam timeline is (800 BCE to 200 CE). Perunthevanar a third sankam poet has written “Kadavul Vaazhththu” for Nattrinai,Kurunthokai,Inkurunooru, Akanaanooru & Puranaanooru and was called “Bharatham padiya Perunthevanaar”. This shows that He might have written “Maabharatham” story around 200 BCE, but it is not available now : Might be burned by foolish guys in “Bohi”. If U.Ve. Swaminathan Iyer is not there it is doubtful that present sankam might have also burned

Perunthevanar’s “Maabharatham” might have copied with much imaginative stories and additions by Viyasar and written in Sanskrit. Let us see how this happened.

Scholars like Mu. Ragav Iyengar always equate Pandavar with Pandiyar. Sinkala Mahavamsam calls Vikrama Pandiyan as Vikrama Pandu.(2). Sinkala king Parakrama Pahu after winning Pandiyars had tittle as “Pandu Vijayam (3).

The root of Pandiyan is Pandu (old) – Galduwell (4)

Pal-Pandu-Pandi-Paandil means –eruthu-Kaalai (bull)
Pandi-Paandiyan – Kaalaiyan, vayavan, Veeran - Paavaanar (5)

Pandiyar were classified as five groups. i.e. Pandiyar,Kavuriyar,Maarar,Vazhuthiyar, & Cheziyar. Pandiyar were also called Panchavar. (6)

“ Ilayathu Aayinum Kilaiyara Eriyum
Arunarai Urumin Porumaraip Porach
Cherumaan PANCHAVAR Neeyae” –

“Panivil Urarchirappin PANCHAVAN kadal
Pazhiyodu Padarap PANCHAVA” --

“Meen Kodi padum PANCHAVANTHAAN Padal”

Just like Appalam turned Pappadam in Malayalam, Einthu-Anchu-Panchu – Panchavar
- Paavaanar (7)

Kavvu+Uriyar= Kavuriyar means ‘Thazhuvutharku Uriyavar- persons who are fittable to fight.

“Velpork KAVURIYAR nannaattu” (Akananooru)

“Thavira Eekaik KAVURIYAR maruka” (Puranaanooru)

“venverk KAVURIYAR Thol muthu kudi”

From above we can see Pandiyar & Kavuriyar are Pandavar & Gauravar.

Viyasar Bharatham says that Arjuna lived one year and one month in forest, reached the place of ‘Naaka Kannikai’ and Pandiyan’s daughter and lived with them.(8)

‘Maruthan’ was sanskritized as Arjuna(9)

The capital of Pandiyan (sometime)was Manavur / Manaloor was sanskritized as “Sikkaathapuri”(10)

Arjuna’s Uncle was Pandiyan. Pandiyar’s ‘Thinkal kulam’ matches with Pandavar’s Chandra kulam.(11)

In Valmiki Ramayan Chola’s were indendified as Suriya kulam.(12)

The above were based on the message given in Purananooru stating UHIYAN CHERALAATHAN who gave food to pandavars & Kauravars. The meaning of the poem was explained by our hubber Mr. Ramraghav sometime ago in “Mahabharatha” thread.

“Alangulai Puravi EIVARODU chinaie
Nilanthalai konda Polampoon Thumpai
ERAIM PATHINMARUM Poruthu kalatha Ozhiyap
Peruncotru Mukupathm Varayathu Koduthoe” (13)

Here ‘Eiverodu’ means five persons. ‘Eraimpathinmar’-100 persons.

The same messages has been registered in Silappathikaram as

“OR IEVAR EERAIM PATHINMAR Udantrezhuntha
Poril Perunchoru Potrathu Thanalitha
CHERAN PORAIYAN MALAYAN” (14)

During 230 BCE Simukan(sivamukan) Created ‘Sathavakanan’ Empire. (15). Historien Buler conforms this by Nasik inscriptions created by Second Kannaran of Sathavakanan
Empire. (207 BCE – 189 BCE) (16)

Kannan(tamil), Kannaran(Vaduka Kannandam), Krishnan(Sanskrit)
Kannaran’s Brother – in – law was Srisathakarni(17) He was called ‘Thakkan Perunko’(18). Krishna’s brother – in – law is Thuriyothan in the same way.

Tamil “Nootruvar Kannar” is Prakrit / Sanskrit Sathakarni.

Hence Vaduka kannaran (Krishna) turned against his brother – in – law and joined hands with Pandiyars.

Krisha is a yadava. Sathakarni also is a yadava.

This is further conformed by tamil third sankam literature. Idayar / Kurumbars / andars were specified as rulers of ‘mullai’ land and they gave disturbances to tamil kingdoms and one of such event was curbed by Chera Perncheral Irumporai.(19).

Then, Andars became battlers of Mauriars (Koolip padai) and when Maurians came down they created Sathavahana dynasty. Andar Padai turned anda patha- Anthrapada-present Anthra.

Naarathan was called “Moovulaku Moolavi”(Thiriloka Chanchari) based on Chera,Chola & Pandiya land (20)

Let us see the place of “Mabharatha” battle happened.

PERUCHERAL UTHIYAN gave food to Pandiyars & Sathkarni during battle.

The same Uthiyan is refered in ‘Akananooru’ written by Kotambalaththu thunchiya Cheraman as,

“Pallan Kuntril Padunizhal Cherntha
Nallan Parapin KUZHUMOOR Angan
Kodaikadan Entra Koda Nenchin
UTHIYAN attil pola oliyelzhuththu”

Here, the place of battle is given as Kuzhumoor and this Kuzhumoor is present Koyambattur – P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar.(21)

From the above we come to conclusion that “Maabharatham” happened between Vadukus and Tamils of same race and this timeline is 250 BCE. This historical event with imaginative stories & additions written in Sanskrit by Vedha Viyasar after nearly four centuries (100 CE).

Most of the Sanskrit literature were adapted from Tamil and were written by persons of South India. Different fields of knowledge of tamils like medicine,Sankiya,Yoha,music,Temple Architecture & mathematics were adapted in Sanskrit. I may write about them in relevant threads.

This shows knowledge and traditions were driven from south to North and not North to South.

References :

(1)Ayothithaasan Sinthanikal – Page 55,Ayothithaasar

(2),(3)Thennattu Porkalankal – Page 228,Ka.Appaththuraiyar

(4),(7) Sankakala Chirapu peryarkal- page 212, Dr.Mo.A. Thurai Arankasamy

(5) Vadamozhi Varalaaru –Page 203 Kna. Theva Neyan (Paavanar)

(6) Puranaanooru-58, Paripaadal -2, Silapapathikaaram 20

(8),(9),(10),(11),(12) Tamilar Varalaru – page 200 – Theva Neya Paavanar

(13) Puranaanooru -2

(14) Silapathikaaram -29

(15),(16),(18) A History of South India – page 93 – K.A. Neelakanda Sastri

(17)Pre historic Ancient and Hindu India-page117- R.D.Banerji

(19)Pathittrup paththu -71

(20)Tamilar Varalaru –Kna.Theva Neyan

(21)History of Tamils –page 493 , P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar.


f.s.gandhi

[9mm_fan]

FSG,
Did not u a few days back passed a slanderous remark against Pandavas saying that Polyandry is very common in North India(a Hindi culture) and Stopping Short of Calling Draupadi a illegitimate wife. Now in this thread u r claiming everyone as South Indians and calling all as Tamils!
Are u sure u wanna go with this?
You are inciting hatred and malice in the minds of other peple. And remember one thing in a public forum like this each and every guy remains an ambassador of his state. U r creating illwill among the minds of Non-Tamilians about Tamilians. That is all i have to say.

[Drugmachine]

Panchali was from Panchala Desam which is attributed to Punjab
Gandhari was from Gandhar which is attributed to afghanistan
Anga desam for which Karna was made king is supposed to be Bengal
Mathura is in Uttar Pradesh and Krishna later moved to Dwaraka in Gujarat.I think brindavan is also in Gujarat
Hastinapura and Indraprastha is supposed to be in Delhi
References to Ganges certainly means that the story was situated in N.India

[Drugmachine]

Also, Krishna is avathar of Vishnu and mahabharatham took place in Dwapara Yugam.That is a long long time ago chronologically.

[TorryJens]

Well Said Viggop.
People right from EVR to today's Politicians have been stirring just this kind of information to mislead,malign and trouble the masses by inciting malice,hate,prejudice among the different sections of society. I am not sure about the nationality of the Original Poster but his acts does seem to remind me of the same set of people who did the same.

[NeroASERCH]

Gandhari was from Gandhar which is attributed to afghanistan

Yes, present-day Kandahar to be precise.
Also her brother, Shakuni, was also known as Gandhar Naresh (King of Gandhar).

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

This is highly insulting.

[S.T.D.]

This is highly insulting.

Oh well, true but we've got to put up w/ it all; tats wat life is all abt.....!

[doctorzlo]

-Erased-

[Peptobismol]

I have already said that 'Mahabharatha' story was written with imaginations,additions & insertions(later years) of real event happened in South India.

I am not spreading hatred but real history. Our Indian friends should understand this if they have broad open mind.

I insist certain phrases like 'South to North' Because so far told history is north to south which is wrong. That is all about.

f.s.gandhi

[Beerinkol]

In Indian subcontinent chronologically foremost Empires were South Pandiyar,Cholar & Cherar. Then in northwest Mahathan Empire was Created. Civilizational growth,Empire economics & politics were transformed from south to North.

Baheerathan who is mentioned in Puranas is ‘Pah rare Chempiyan’, A tamil Chola king. He formulated Kangai river. His ancestor was Azhagu Nanthan. A branch of river Ganga is named after him as Nanthan river. The same type of messages in Puranas shows that during BCE cholas ruled all over India before Mahathans. Sinthu Valley Civilization should be Chola’s civilization. Rama is indentified as person of Chola dynasty.(1)

In Bihar’s Patna district Mahathan government was formed with capital of Rasakirugam. It grew as an empire with Patna as capital where Ganga & Son rivers jointed. Then Maurien empire was formed. During 230 BCE Anthra(Sathavahana) Empire was formed when Maurien Empire got down.

“ Venkot tiyanai SONAI padiyum
Ponmali PADALI perie Yiyar” – KURUNTHOKAI – 75

Valmiki Ramayana’s Kishkinda Kandam tells the empires in south of Vindiya mountains were Anthirar,Pundarar,Cholar,Pandiyar & Keralar. The port ‘Musirip pattininam’ is specified by ‘Muraseep pattanam’ in Ramayana.

“Tathaiv Andhramsca Pudramsca colan pandyau sa keralam” (2)

This shows that Valmki Ramanyan was written after Anthra Empire’s formation and the antiquity of tamils empires.

Ramayana also says about Pandiyan capital ‘Kavadapuram’(which was head of Second Sankam) and the doors in Kavadapuram which were filled up with Pearls.

“tato hemamayam divyam mukta,mani,Vihusitam
Yuk KAVADAM PANDIYANAM gatadraksyata vanarali” (3)

During BCE the following small empires were in North India.

1. Angam – Bihar,Orissa – Bahalpur, munkare districts
2. Mahatham - Bihar, Patna, Gaya districts
3. Vazzi – North Bihar Musapalpur, saran, Sampam districts
4. Kasi – East UP, Varanasi,Kasipur,Mirsapur districts.
5. Kosalam - UP- Luknow, Kasipur, Mirsapur districts
6. Mallam – East UP, Korakpur district
7. Vamsam - East UP, Alahabad, Panda districts
8. Cettie - South UP, Kanpur,Unavo districts
9. Panchaalam- North UP, Roghikand district
10. Guru - West UP, Aligar, Meerat, Delhi,Daneshwar districts
11. Machcham -East Rajstan Revaari, Gurkarong,Alwar,Jaipur districts
12. Soorasenam-West UP Mathura, Barathpur,Jaipur districts
13. Asumakam - Godhavari river beginning
14. Avanthi - West MP, Maalavam
15. Gandharam - Pakistan Peshaavar
16. Kamposam – Afkhnistan Kabul

Hence, North East Mahatham was big empire like South Tamil Empires that too formulated during 400 BCE. There was no big Empire directly North of Tamil Empires during BCE. Kanishkars’s Kushana dynasty was created only during 78 CE.

Since Empire theory had gone south to North and not vice versa, the so called Aryan invasion theory is wrong.(which I may write in detail who are Aryans in relevant thread)

With this background the Tamil & Sanskrit literature are to be researched.

References :

(1) Tamilar Varalaaru – Kna. Thevaneyan (Paavaanar)

(2), (3) Valmiki Ramayan, Kishkintha Kaandam 41.2,42.13, quoted by P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar, History of Tamils, From earliest time to 600 AD.

f.s.gandhi

[doctorzlo]

Sorry FSG,

You may be thinking you are spreading Knowledge, buts its hatred and insult that you are trading in.

Don't know if your Intentions is just to prove some historic point but it seems more towards Segregation

I request you to identify which part I maintain separatism. After all India is a democratic country. Differenct views shall be put across to derive exact thing.

History is a lesson to learn. Values to be derived. I attack certain views because it has disintegration core within, which may produce unknown negative effects. I rely & pray for longterm solutions to multi-religious, multi-lingual state with downtrodden masses participate in nation building like India.

f.s.gandhi

[TorryJens]

Sure FSG India is a democracy and freedom of speech is uncompromisable.

But that doesn't mean spreading hatred and trading insults at others.

You speak about nation building, but what nation are you trying to build by deliberately attempting to denigrate and looking down at others for no mistake of theirs.

How is your false but powerful propaganda ever going to contribute to nation building. History has shown again and again that when ever a community gets caught up in superiority madness they have always caused destruction.

Anyway accepting that you have complete and unquestioned freedom to express your believes I take back what I said.

[Ifroham4]

Originally Posted by Sandeep This is highly insulting.

Oh well, true but we've got to put up w/ it all; tats wat life is all abt.....! O yes! Serpents have always been around mankind and they have learnt long time, how to live with them

[Fegasderty]

How is your false but powerful propaganda ever going to contribute to nation building. History has shown again and again that when ever a community gets caught up in superiority madness they have always caused destruction.

Anyway accepting that you have complete and unquestioned freedom to express your believes I take back what I said.

The above was done by some miscreants in the past. My part is to reveal out the real history. For that, I seem to be forceful because already established wrong building should be broken with truths.

You seem to be refering Tamil's superiority madness. It is not so. I am talking about pre-historic period. I have to reveal what it was as it is. At the sametime I may write about 'Medivial India' in relevant column in which tamils -why - the whole Indian society had slavery.

My point here is that the views of 10 % white collars or the progressness of 10% people of India that has been so far in indian mass communicational media, is not the forwardness of India. The real inhabitants who constitute 80% masses should get liberty. They should know what is their history. They should know what was done before.

The differences in the past history should be clearly shown to derive out possible integration. There is line of positive culture in Indian culture. That should be revealed for real nation building.

That is what I am doing. Friends should understand this.

f.s.gandhi

[doctorzlo]

Who did create Middle order & North Indian Empires during BCE?

1.Chalukkia & Hoisala (tamil Poich chola) Empires – Irunkovel Chola dynasty – Tamil + koduntamil vaduka kannada mixture. Hoisala capital is Pelar (Velar). Chalukkia’s Thuvarasamuththiram was called Helabeedu(Pazhaveedu)

2.Gujarat Cholanks dynasty – Vaduka kanndikas

3.Rastrakutas(Reddies) – Vaduka Kannadikas

4.Kantalam- Capital vanavasi – Vaduka kannadikas. (the above all –(1))

5.Mahatham was Dravidian(tamilian) govt. (2)

6.Mathyaprathesam- Vaduka telugus(3)

7.Malava –CapitalUjjaini – Kalachuris- Vaduka kannadikas(4)

8.Mitila- Nanayaththevan – Vaduka kannadikas(5)

9.East Bengal ‘Sena’ dynasty – Vijaya senan – Vaduka kannadikas(6)

10.Pelgam-Capital Thevagiri – Vaduka kannadikas(7)

11.Thatchaseelam,Mathura, West India – Sithiyas,Sakar(8)

12.Mahata Guptas won sithiyas during (319-468 CE)(9)

13.Chandra Gupta Mauria had ‘Chanakya’- a tamil ‘Parppan’ (not Brahmin since the word formed later years) and chanakya had another name as ‘Thramila’(Tamilan),belonged to Kancheepuram. Ramanujar in his ‘Sribadiyam’ specifies him as ‘Thramila chariar’. (10)

14.Rajputs were mixture of Mangolian Huns and Gurchara tribes (11)

15.Kalinga ‘Cholakangar’ were from Chola dynasty and Ananthavarman(Rajaraja 1) contructed Poori Jagannadar temple.(12)

This shows most of the Middle and north Indian empires were either Chola dynasty or Vaduka dynasty. This further proves empiran economics migrated from south to North and invasion happened from south to North.

There is no Aryans from Kyber / Bolan trespasses came to India to demolish India as Maxmuller and other Aryan forefathers claim. There is no sign in history that all Indian inhabitants came from abroad to India as Western minds claim.

References :

(1) Hyderabad Archeological series Vol XIII No.13
(2),(3),(4),(5),(6),(7),(8) & (9) Pre historic Ancient Hindu India – R.D.Banerji

(10),(11) & (12)- Tunour, Mahawanso, P21 J.A.S. V2 quoted by P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar

f.s.gandhi

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Hey FSG,
One personal question. Whats ur nationality?

But one thing i and others would be happy about FSG posting is the One-India (a Greater Tamilnadu extending from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Gujarat to Assam.) policy he maintains. This clearly refutes the fact (some tamil supremos's) that there was never a One-India before british rule.

[S.T.D.]

Too Personal You could have posted to my personal box.

Anyway nothing wrong as far as mine is concerned as I always maintain my own incarnation in such kind of open public discussion and this is only one forum I talk with global friends.

My name as in passport F.S.GANDHI. Ofcourse I am an Indian as citizenship. I have employment in Saudi Arabia for the past one year as a mechanical Engineer.

I don't have any mission as like "Tamil Akanda Bharatham". And If you visit my post in Tamil's elderliness.... thread you can find I am talking in global perspective of pre-historic cultures where tamil elements present.

I welcome your healthy criticisms to my posts in future. Thanks.

f.s.gandhi