[PhillipHer]

"Manhipravaalham" Tamil-Style:

"Á½¢ôÀ¢ÃÅ¡Çõ" ¾Á¢Æ¢¨½-ż¦Á¡Æ¢î ¦º¡ø ¿¨¼, ÍÁ¡÷ þÃñ¼¡Â¢Ãõ ¬ñθÙìÌ ÓýÒ §¾¡ýȢ¾¡¸ò ¦¾Ã¢¸¢ÈÐ. þôÒ¾¢Â ¾Á¢ú ¿¨¼ ÓüÈ¢Öõ ¬ýÁ£¸ Å¢Çì¸ò §¾¨Å¸Ù측¸ò §¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ôÀð¼Ð.

§¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ôÀð¼ ¸¡Ã½í¸û :--

(1)¬ýÁ£¸Óõ, ºÁÂÓõ,ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸ §Å¾-¦¿È¢Ôõ À¡Ã¾ ¿¡Î ÓØžüÌõ ¦À¡ÐÅ¡¸î º¢Ä ¾Á¢ú «È¢»÷¸û §Áø
Å¢Çì¸í¸Ç¡¸ ÅÆí¸ Óý Åó¾§À¡Ð «Å÷¸ÙìÌ, §Å¾ š츢Âí¸Ç¢ÕóÐõ, ÁüÈ Å¼ ¦Á¡Æ¢î º¡ò¾¢Ãí¸Ç¢Ä¢ÕóÐõ ¾Á¢ú Á¨È ±ýÚõ ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ §Å¾õ ±É×õ ¬úÅ¡÷¸Ç¢ý «ÕǢÂø ±É×õ «¨Æì¸ôÀÎõ ¾¢ùÅ¢Âô À¢ÃÀó¾í¸û §À¡ýÈ ¾Á¢ú ¦¿È¢¸Ç¢Ä¢ÕóÐõ ´§Ã ºÁÂò¾¢ø þÕ §ÅÚ Å¨¸Â¡É §Áü§¸¡û¸û ±ÎòÐì ¸¡ðÊ Å¢Çì¸ §ÅñÊ Åó¾Ð.

(2)¾Å¢Ã, þò¾¨¸Â Å¢Çì¸í¸û Óý§À ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¦ÅÇ¢ ÅóÐûǨŸ¨Ç ŢâרøǢÖõ, ±Øò¾¢Öõ ÀÊòÐì §¸ðÎ «È¢Â ´§Ã †¢óÐ ºÁÂò¨¾î §º÷ó¾ À¡Ã¾ò¾¢ý Àø§ÅÚ ¦Á¡Æ¢ô À̾¢Â¢ÉÕõ ¬ÅÄ¡ö Óý Åó¾ §À¡Ð, þô ¦À¡Ð Ó¨È þýȢ¨Á¡¾¾¡¸¢ Å¢ð¼Ð. ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸ ¨Å½Å ¦¿È¢ ¿¡Î ÓØÐ ÀÃôÀô Àð¼§À¡Ð ´§Ã Üð¼ò¾¢ø ¾Á¢Æ÷ ÁðÎÁ¢ýÈ¢ À¢È þó¾¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ÉÕõ ÌØÁ¢Â¢ÕóÐ ¬÷ÅòмÛõ Àì¾¢Ô¼Ûõ §¸ð¸ò ÐÅí¸¢Â §À¡Ð ¡ÅÕìÌõ Òâ¨Åì¸ò¾ì¸ ¦À¡Ð ¿¨¼ §¾¨Åô Àð¼Ð. «ó¿¨¼ ¾Á¢ú ż¦Á¡Æ¢î ¦º¡ü¸û þÃñ¨¼Ôõ ¸Äó¾ ÅÊÅõ ¬Â¢üÚ. þõÓ¨È À¡Ã¾ ¿¡Î ÓØÐìÌõ ¦À¡Ðšɾ¡¸ô Òò¾¸í¸Ç¡¸×õ ¦ÅÇ¢Åó¾É.

(3) þùÅÊÅ¡ø ż¦Á¡Æ¢¨Âò ¾Á¢Æ÷¸Ùõ ¸üÈ¡¸ §ÅñÊ ¸ð¼¡Âõ þýÈ¢ º¢Ä Á¡ÚÀ¡Î¸Ù¼ý ż ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸¨Ç §¾¡ò¾¢Ãí¸Ç¢Öõ §Å¾ À¡¼í¸Ç¢Öõ ¾Á¢Æ÷¸û ÀÊì¸ Åº¾¢Â¡Â¢üÚ. ¾Á¢Æ¢ø þøÄ¡¾ ż ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¯îºÃ¢ôÒì¸ÙìÌ þ󿨼 ®Î ¸ðÊÂÐ.

Á½¢ôÀ¢ÃÅ¡ÇòÐìÌ ´÷ ¯¾¡Ã½õ :

"¾¢¦ÃªÀ¾¢ Š¿¡¨¾Â¡Â¢ý§É ôÃÀò¾¢ Àñ½¢òÐ."

þ¨ÈÅ¨É Àì¾¢ ¦ºö ÒÈòàö¨Á (¯¼ø Íò¾õ) þýȢ¨Á¡¾¾¡? ±ýÈ ´Õ Àì¾Ã¢ý §¸ûÅ¢ìÌ ¬îº¡Ã¢Â÷ «Ç¢ò¾ Å¢Çì¸õ þ¡ü¸û.

þ¾ý ¸ÕòÐ :

Š¿¡¨¾Â¡ö (ż ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ø) = Å£ðÎ-Å¢Ä측¸ þÕó¾ §À¡Ð

¢ý¦É = «ý§È¡ (¾Á¢ú¡øÄ¢ý Á¡Ú ÅÊÅõ)

ôÃÀò¾¢ = þ¨ÈÅ§É ¸¾¢Â¡ö (ºÃ½õ) «¨¼ì¸Äõ ÀüÚõ ¦¿È¢.

Àñ½¢òÐ = ¦ºö¾¡û (¾Á¢ú¡øÄ¢ý Á¡Ú ÅÊÅõ).

þùÅÊÅ¢ø ´Õ Å¢§¿¡¾õ ¯üÚ §¿¡ì¸ò¾ì¸Ð. §ÅüÚ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢É÷ ¾Á¢ú þÄ츽ôÀÊ ¬ñÀ¡ø- ¦ÀñÀ¡ø,
¿¢¸ú ¸¡Äõ-þÈó¾ ¸¡Äõ, ´Õ¨Á-Àý¨Á §À¡ýÈ §ÅÚÀ¡Î¸¨Ç «È¢ó¾¡ø ¾¡ý ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇ þÂÖõ ±ýÈ ¸ðÎôÀ¡ÊýÈ¢ ¡ÅÕõ ±Ç¢¾¡¸ô ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇò¾ì¸ Ũ¸Â¢ø ("Àñ½¢òÐ" ±ýÀÐ §À¡Ä)
Å¢¨É¡ø ÅÊÅõ «¨ÁÂô ¦ÀüÈÐ.

À¡Ã¾ ¿¡ð¼Å÷ ¡ÅÕìÌõ ¦À¡Ð ź¾¢Â¡¸ þ󿨼 ÅÊÅõ §¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ô Àð¼¡Öõ, «¾¢¸Á¡¸ þ¨¾ô ÀÂý ÀÎò¾¢ÂÅ÷¸û ÀÄ ¦Á¡Æ¢ô À¢Ã¢Å¢ÉÃ¡É ¨Å½Å÷¸§Ç.

þ§¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¿¨¼¾¡ý À¢ýÒ º¢Ä Á¡üÈí¸Ù¼ý "Á¨Ä¡Çõ" ±ýȧ¾¡÷ ¾É¢ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¡¸ ¯Õ¦ÅÎò¾Ð.

[Lt_Apple]

//The Name of a person is decided at the childhood stage by the respective Parents in general just on the basis of their Mother-Tongue but on several other factors, mostly based on their Religion. That aspect is totally irrelevant here.//

In my above-mentioned posting.... in reply to Mr. Terminator.... please read as....

....... Parents in general just ...."NOT"...on the basis of their Mother-Tongue ....

[9mm_fan]

"¬í츢 «Äì¸Äóò¾ «ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡ðÊ...." (Aanki alakkalanththa Aththaman Paer Paatti)

... One Boy was reciting Tamil Thiruppaavai transliterated in English letters.... as above... meant to be read as...

µí¸¢ ¯Ä¸Çó¾ ¯ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡Ê (Oangi Ulahalhandha Vuththaman Paer paadi)

Then why the boy read it differently? because according to the conventional English pronunciation it leads to be read so. It was not the Faiult of the Boy... but the Transliteration Style radically unsuited to Tamil Language... whose pronunciations are Not Letter-based like all the other Indian Languages, for which only this sort of Transliteration Style may perhaps suit, being Letter-based pronunciations.

For Tamil since the pronunciations are Syllable-based like English, it has to be dealt differently...

So the Tamil-Sangam Experts invented a New-Style named as Tamil-Sangam Style of Transliteration in the year 1932. This unique style well-suited to Tamil Language... also suits any other Language of International arena.

[Peptobismol]

Tamil is the only Indian language to be a hi

this is not strrictly a literary/etymyological analysis. so apologies. BUt
tAmil is national language in more than one country outside India
bengali-india and bangladesh
urdu-pakistan and india
tamil- india, sri lanka and singapore
hindi-india
hence tamil is the omly indian language is croses national borders

[MannoFr]

Dear ALL FRIENDS,

I have initiated this Thread with a high intention of exchanging their valuable thoughts and knowledge on the this important Topic well-relevant and seriously conveyable to the Contemporary Tamil-Society.

Whereas some Guys who are Sick-minded, Tamil-Hatred and ADAMANT and OBSTINATE to thrust their baseless Inferences on others....as also insulting and hurting the Honourable Participants

So please do not reply to this MIND-SICKLY CHARACTER, Mr. Terminator ANYMORE.

I have also taken up the matter with the Administarators.

Please IGNORE such UNWORTHY CHARACTERS in future too.

[doctorzlo]

Ms. Pavithra,

Thanks.. My Clarifications are ....

// ..... I did understand the grammar rules of Tamil //.

You mean... Did... or "Did Not"... ?

//I could infer from your explanation that "GANGA" can be pronounced as "GANGA", only out of experience and not based on any grammar rules.... I have seen that some of us pronounce the word " PADMA" as "BADMA”. I know that pronouncing "PADMA" as "BADMA" is wrong, in Tamil it has to be pronounced, as "PADMA" then why is this happening, is it a matter of practice?//

No. You have mistaken my earlier statement. Further I clarify here.
These words are Proper Nowns, which are to be pronounced as the Language of origin, stipulates.

For Example ... "Kaveri'... has to be pronounced as Kaavaeri only by others in any Language, as it is so called by the local people concerned)....

... and ... Padma... as Padhmaa ..only concurring with the owner of that Name. and... Not as.... Paedma (similar to pronouncing ..."Pad".... in the word Letter-Pad) ...

Both these Names of Popular Nowns... emanated from the Religious Language Sanskrit... common for all the Hindus. ... like Hebrerw for Christians and Arab for Muslims...

So we should not deviate from its stipulated Original pronunciations in view of Divinity.

//This is because "GANGA" is an adopted word in Tamil (I mean it does not belong to Tamil, I am not sure if I am right in saying that "GANGA" is not a Tamil word,...//

The Question of adopted word does not arise here. Allahabad, Patna, Salem, Vadodra... are also other examples to justify the pronunciations as has been prescribed by the People or owners possessing and mainly concerned with these Proper-Nown words... even though it can be pronounced by other ways too... in the language it is transliterated.

// (2) If yes then can I say that " KANGA" is the equivalent of the Sanskrit word "GANGA" or does Tamil have a different word for it?//

If a person named in Tamil as... "Thaen-Mozhi(§¾ý-¦Á¡Æ¢)"... is addressed as... "Thenmosi"... (¦¾ý-¦Á¡º¢) ... by wrongly pronouncing her Name ... Only the Tamil-knowing persons around... will laugh at him...

While others may argue that as per English grammar it has to be said as "Thenmosi"(¦¾ý¦Á¡º¢) only ... Can it be acceptable?

// (1) I know that Tamil has a very rich vocabulary, and its quite possible that we have equivalent of the Sanskrit words in Tamil. I would like to know if I am right in saying this //

No Language presently EXISTING .... even in the whole of International arena ... is PURE... with its own Classical-vocabulary of Origin. Every Language has adopted words from various Classical Root Languages like Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Sanskrit, Tamil and so on... which is the Reality of Culture, which Truth has to be accepted acknowledged and duly recognised as well. Fanaticism will be suiciodal.

English is Not a Classical Language... but called as a Fertile language... Well-liked preferably over other Languages for International communications especially for Science & Technology... Mainly because it possesses... the Maximum Vocabulary... apt and well-suited to express and convey the intricate Senses and Thoughts inherent within a few Words or Terminologies. In this respect Tamil or any other Indian Languages too are far behind.

But such a Rich vocabulary in English has been made possible only by means of abundant and accomodative acquisitions from several Global languages, including Tamil into English.... which is the main reason for its widest prevalence living deep-rooted.

But the unbiased Linguists say that.... English is an unrefined Language because of Non-standard granmmar.... especially for Pronunciation.

The words ... "But"... and "Put"... have to be pronounced differently... Why? on what basis? There is No answer in that Grammar.... But only a Thumb-rule... Stating... "It has to be SO"... Unquestionably...Unlike any other Language in the World... past and the present. In one or the other places... such Thumb-Rules... do exist for all the Popular Languages of To-day.

Lot of Sanskrit words have got mixed up in Tamil, more in our spoken Language... and Vice-versa too. So to say ... several Tamil words have been adopted by Sanskrit too. For example as I have already mentioned under these pages.... the the Root of Sanskrit word... Neeraha... meaning Water... the Tamil origin word... "NEER" (¿£÷)... from which Root-word.... another Sanskrit word... Neeraja (¿£Ãƒ¡) ... has emanated.

But it cannot be said... that for each and every Non-Tamil-origin-word... we can find a substitute pure Tamil word from the ancient Tamil Literature. but 60% of Tamil words we are not using at all... even though we have equivalent Tamil word available...

// (3) If I am right then no body can say " look Tamil does not have a pronunciation as "GANGA", in fact it should be made clear to people that the Sanskrit "GANGA" is only "KANGA" in Tamil and it is not an adulteration in the pronunciation."//

If in Tamil literature it is pronounced as ... 'Kanga"... truly conforming to its Grammar... nothing wrong in it..... Nobody can comment on it .. It has to be taken as the "Thatha-bhavam" form of transformation. but practically speaking it has be SPOKEN only in its phonetic-style of its Lingistic-origin ... as I have illustrated above.

Regarding the Difficulty and Facility of various phonetics and Syllables or Sounds I have detailed in my previous Reply. I reiterate... this difficulty exists for each and every Language while Transliterating other Language words. There is no exeception... including Sanskrit, Hindi, English etc. ... as much as.... or even more... than Tamil.

But NO Language should be considered as a YARDSTICK to measure the Greatness of another Language. Only because all the other Indian Languages... are the OFF-SHOOT-LANGUAGES of One Root-Classical Language.... Sanskrit...

... Whereas Tamil... is the only one Contrary to them.... since independant...

.. and... Equally Classical like Sanskrit... whose Grammar is far different from Tamil.

But one point we have to think... why Sanskrit ... has become a Dead-Language?

... as also such other ancient Classical Languages like Hebrew, Greek, Latin... are extinct?

... while Tamil is Not?.... but LIVING BRIGHT ....and also thriving Internationally?

Because of 3 Main reasons.... for Tamil....

(1) The pronunciations are simple and LIGHT... with NO Harsh and Tough Phonetics.

(2) The Language is Very easy with a Simple Grammar... when compared to other Indian Languages especially Sanskrit, which is a difficult Language, especially its Grammar... Foreigners too say so.

(3) It practically accomodates being flexible enough to import the alien Language words into its stream.... like English and Hindi (but without their Draw-backs)

(4) It is widely prevalent all over the world since several centuries, unlike any other Cllassical language.

// (4) Secondly why do we use so many Sanskrit words in spoken Tamil if we have the equivalent words in Tamil? How did this mixing happen?//

Yes... For example...

... ¸øĢ¡½õ / Kalliyaanham (Sanskrit) = ¾¢ÕÁ½õ(Thirumanham); ÅШŠ/ Vadhuivai(Tamil)
... Window(English) = ƒýÉø / Jannal (Portugese) = ¸¡Ä¾÷ / Kaaladhar
... Yes (English) = ºÃ¢ / Sari (Persian) = ¬¸ðÎõ / Aahattum
... Variety(English) = ¾¢ÛÍ / Dhinusu(Persian) = Ũ¸(Vahai)
... ºÁ¡îº¡Ãõ / Samaachaaram(Sanskrit) = ¾¸Åø (Thahaval) / ¦ºö¾¢ (Seydhi)

But Why we are mixing...?... It is the Reality of Common-man's convenience!!!

// (6) Can you please suggest me some book on Tamil grammar (I am beginner in this context)//

You can refer to Tamil Sangam, Madurai.... They can help you authentically.

[Beerinkol]

Spoken Tamil is very unique because it sounds just like pigs grunting.

[Drugmachine]

Mr.Ramakrishna:

// I fully agree with you that TAMIL is classical and ancient complete language and S.I languages are indebted to TAMIL. // .

Unbiased Indian and International Linguistic Scholars have asserted authentically that all the other South-Indian Languages, (so called Dravidian-Languages) are the Off-shoot Languages sprung up from the Ancient TAMIL, so called SENTHAMIZH ( Classical Form of Tamil)

One of such authentic Research Study is by Dr. Suneethi Kumar Chatterji whose Treatise is "Origin and Development of Dravidian-Languages"

It is also asserted that Tamil was the only Language spoken ALL OVER INDIA..., during the yesterdays. Subsequently it was confined to South-India because of the Intervention of Pali, Prakrit and Sanskrit Languages more encouraged by the Kings of those days.

From that form of Classical Tamil, the contemporary Tamil-Neighbour-Languages have developed, it has been proved.

To prove this factor if we observe the ancient forms of other South-Indian Languages from which the present shapes as Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Tulu have been transformed ....

...so to say ACHA-TELUGU for Telugu....

...HALE-KANNADA..... for Kannada.....

and EZHUTHTHACHAN-MALAYALAM for Malayalam....

...it is quite undoubtedly obvious that all these Tamil-Neighbour-Languages are....

...Nothing but SENTHAMIZ (Ancient form of Classical-Tamil) sans Sanskrit-words.


// But in my opinion a language becomes rich and will serve the purpose more if it can accept the words from other languages (EX: English). //

Yes. You are correct and that is how any Language can exist...rather SURVIVE ...even under all odds of changing Times.

English is considered as one of the most Advanced and the Richest amongst the International Languages. But...What is its Background?... It is neither a Classical Language ...nor the Ancient !

But Today the whole world accepts it as a Great Language because...

... it is the most ADVANCED and FERTILE..

...with Maxium amount of Vocabulary...

..despite several Lacunae in it .

..especially its Non-standard pronunciations. This Lacunae is peculiar and exists ONLY IN ENGLISH.... Internationally.

And the most noteworthy factor in English is that it has been persistently developed and advanced by means of continuous additions of new words imported from other Languages, without any INHIBITIONS or ORTHODOXY ....unlike other International Languages.....such that invariably the whole world accepts.....that for ADVANCED STUDIES....especially for....SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGICAL Subjects.... English is the MOST BEFIT & APT Language... ... even though it is just an OFFSHOOT Language.... a Mosaic-form of Several Languages and Not a Classical Language...

.. Only because of such ADAPTABILITY..

Luckily Tamil still maintains its Classical Status and presently is spoken by about 14 Crores of people all over the world, mainly because of its Simplicity in pronunciations, with lesser number of Alphabets alongside such other reasons already detailed hereabove.

While I reiterate that every Language has its own Unique Values and Beauty, this main Factor of SIMPLICITY and EASIEST usage status coupled with Abundant Classical Vocabulary is Unparallel in case of Tamil as asserted by the Global Scholars, which are the main reasons for its long survival.

And also the Tamil-speaking people have not been rigid like those mentioned above and have imported words from several foreign Languages, apart from Sanskrit.....and using them profusely.

For example:

¾¢¨ºî ¦º¡ø
Adopted into Tamil --- Foreign Language Source --- -- Meaning

ºÃ¢-Sari Persian Yes

ƒýÉø-Jannal Portugese Window

À¾¢ø-Badhil Arab Reply

¸Î¾¡º¢-Kaduthaasi Persian Letter

¾¡Ê-Dhaadi Arab Beard

ÍõÁ¡Î-Chummaadu Portugese Sandwitch-Weight-Support for Head

¾¢ÛÍ-Dhinusu Persian Varieties

ƒ¢øÄ¡-Jillaa Arab District

¾¡º¢ø¾¡÷-Thahsildhaar Arab Head of Taluk

ÀÃÅ¡ö-Paravaa Arab To be cared

¾Â¡÷-Thayaar Arab Ready


//My mother tough(Tongue) is Telugu //

Well. Then you will be happy to read .....in this Context.. the two Books in Telugu named

"Nudi-Naanudi" and Thummedhaa-Oka-Saari"

published by Andhra-Pathrika and Andhra-Prabha respectively.

Under those Titles they were published as Serial-Articles in these weeklies about 50 years back.. It was analytic on the Origins of Vocabulary and their present forms comparatively as well as their Proximities and Similarities in the various Dravidian Languages. The presentation was so vivid, lively and photographic that any common Telugu-knowing person will find it easy and interesting. I read zealously every week and learnt much from them.

I will be happy if anybody can fetch them and send to me for which I will bear the cost with whole-hearted GRATITUDE....because they are worthy to possess as Reference-Books.

[TorryJens]

BEST-SUITED TRANSLITERATION-STYLE.... for Tamil... in English

...is... the TAMIL-SANGAM-STYLE standardised in the year 1932.

... since it is SYLLABLE-BASED... unlike all other Styles, which are Letter-based... suited for all other Indian-Languages.

Tamil is the ONLY INDIAN-LANGUAGE... which is SYLLABLE-BASED...Similar to English.

All other Transliteration-Styles in vogue now for Tamil... at par with other Indian Languages....

...can ONLY MISLEAD a Stranger... depicting a different pronunciation than the Tamil's true form.

[Beerinkol]

http://www.iomx.com/online_ebooks.htm
http://www.iomx.com/download.htm
http://www.iomx.com/webmaster.htm
http://www.iomx.com/

[PhillipHer]

DIFFERENT PRONUNCIATIONS for One and the Same TAMIL-LETTER... Unlike other Indian-Languages.

Every Language-Sentence is formed by Words..

Words are formed by SYLLABLES... which is the Basis for SHORTHAND-NEED for any Language.

For example...in an English Word : CIRCUMSTANCE... Cir +Cum+Stance... are the Three Phonetics... which are called SYLLABLES.

In a Tamil-Word : MAYILAADUTHURHAI... MAYI + LAADU + THURHAI...

...BY way of Pronunciation only... (although by Grammatical-sense, it is a Combination of MAYIL+ AADU + THURHAI)

In English Language, there is NO STANDARD-PRONUNCIATION FOR any single LETTER... but gets its Phonetic-form, only when it is placed within a Syllable... which itself varies from place to place.

.. For example, there is NO STANDARD PRONUNCIATION for the Letter: "G"... which is pronounced as "JI"

But it gets the sound of "Ge".... while it is used as GET..

And gets the Sound of "Ja" ... when used in GEORGE.

Further different with "F" phonetic... in LAUGH..

In all the Indian-Languages.... EXCEPT TAMIL... each and every Letter has a SPECIFIC PRONUNCIATION...

... and so Every Letter has to be pronounced only by that SINGLE Pronunciation or Phonetic... right from the ORIGIN OF THE LETTER ITSELF.... all through.

For example, a Letter "KA" in Telugu, Hindi, Bengali, Marathi.. and such other Indian-Languages.... EXCEPT TAMIL...

...has to be pronounced as "KA" only.... wherever it be placed... and NOT DIFFERENT.... in any case.

Whereas in Tamil.... there is NO STANDARD-PRONUNCIATION for each Letter.... since it varies according to its placement in a syllable forming the relevant Word.

But it sounds different according to its placement in a Syllable forming part of the relevant Word

For example.... in the Tamil-Word : ¸Ä¸í¸û (KALAHANGALH)... the Letter :"KA" is pronounced as ... KA, HA, GA... Three different-pronunciations for the same Letter "KA".. according to its three locations.

In the cases of other Indian Languages... it has to be read as : KALAKANKALH.... same pronunciation as KA only as it is ... for the Letter from Origin.

So for Transliteration of any Indian-Language into English-Letters... we are able to specify one and the same pronunciation for each Letter... as Ka, Ga, Gha... Cha, Chha, Ja, Jha.... and so on, which System .... WILL NOT SUIT THE TAMIL LANGUAGE ....

...since the Pronunciation in Tamil.... is NOT LETTER-BASED.... but LOCATION-BASED.... so to say its Syllable

So according to the Stipulation for other Indian Languages... if we Transliterate one Tamil-Literature line as...

Onki ulakalanda uththaman pEr pAti.... a Stranger to Tamil will read as ...

...¬í츢 «Äì¸Äñ¼ «ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡ðÊ (AANKI ALAKKALANDA ATHTHAMAN PAER PAATTI)...

...which in fact is different as... µí¸¢ ¯Ä¸Çó¾ ¯ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡Ê... which is CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED ONLY BY....Tamil-Sangam-Style as...

OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN PAER PAADI.

[doctorzlo]

I'm totally disgusted with this topic. I find most of the gentlemen??? under this topic are ignorant, unpolite and lack sense. I leave this topic deeply hurt and at the same time wonder at the racistic comments. If not for the great tamil scholars and the true protectors of Tamil, we would have vanished like the Red Indians.

[Fegasderty]

சுதமா தாத்தா!!

பேத்தி பேச்சைக் கேளாமல்
இந்த தேவா நாத்தி பின்னாலே போய்
நல்லா வாங்கிக் கட்டிக் கொண்டீங்க தாத்தா

சேராத இடந்தனிலே சேர வேண்டாம்,
தேராத ஆய்வுகள் கூற வேண்டாம்
வாதாடும் குறவரிட வள்ளிப் பங்கன்
மயிலேறும் பெருமாளை வாழ்த்தாய் நெஞ்சே!!!!

பேசாமல் என்னோடு வந்துவிடுங்கள்.
வள்ளலார் பாடல்களிலே வாழ்வின் உண்மையறிவோம்,
சிவ பிரானின் நன்மையரிவோம்!!

உங்கள் அன்புப் பேத்தி

[tgs]

OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN PAER PAADI.

Correct pronunciation: OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN BARE BODY!!

[Fegasderty]

Topic started by R.Srinivasan. (U.S.A) (@ ip68-0-198-105.ri.ri.cox.net) on Sun Oct 19 12:12:36 .


Every Language is great and lovable by heart and mind of the people having it as their Mother-Tongue,like the MOTHER for every Human.And no doubt each Language has its own Beauty and Value.

At the same time...

"HOW and in what aspects TAMIL IS GREAT and UNIQUE?... as also the factors behind... in comparison to other Languages," ...

...is the Topic of Interest, under this Title.

I invite the honourable participants to analyse this factor in a healthy and open-mind.

[LottiFurmann]

¾Á¢ú ¯ûÇ ´Õ Å¡÷ò¨¾ '±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ' ±ýÀÐ! ¿£í¸û ¯í¸û «ôÀ¡ «õÁ¡×ìÌ ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ À¢û¨Ç? - þ¨¾, ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ ±ýÀ¨¾, ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢ø ±ýɦÅýÚ ÜÚÅ£÷¸û?
§ÁÖõ, ¿¡ý ¾ü§À¡Ð ź¢òÐ ÅÕõ µÁ¡ý ¿¡Î µ÷ «ÃÒ ¿¡Î. «Ã¡À¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø, º¢Ä Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û.....
¿À÷,(¬û)
Á¡Â¢ (¾ñ½£÷) (¿õÁ¢ø Á¡Ã¢, Á¸Á¡Â¢, ±ýÚ Üڧšõ...ºÀ¡( ²Ø)
Ó¾¢÷( ãò¾/ ¦Àâ ),
º£¾¡ (§¿Ã¡¸) º£¨¾ìÌ §¿Ã¡ÉÅû ±ýÀ¾¡ø¾¡ý «ô¦ÀÂ÷....
þÐ §À¡ø þýÛõ ²Ã¡ÇÁ¡É Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û ¯ûÇÉ..
þùÅ¢Õ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢Öõ ÒĨÁ §ÁÖõ ¯ñ¦¼ýÈ¡ø, þýÉÓõ ÜÈÓÊÔõ.

[brraverishhh]

¾£ó¾Á¢ú: Theen-Thamizh: (SWEET - TAMIL)

"¡õ «È¢ó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢§Ä ¾Á¢ú ¦Á¡Æ¢ §À¡ø þÉ¢¾¡ÅÐ ±íÌõ ¸¡§½ý ..."

.... said Mahakavi Bharathi...to mean... "Out of several Languages I know there is no Language as SWEET as Tamil... Not only Bharathi, several open-minded, unbiased foreigners too have accepted this fact

Tamil is named so because its phonetics are invariably light... with no harsh sounds like other Indian Languages as well as in Sanskrit ... such as KHA, GHAH, CHHA, THHA... series nor cluster of sounds like PRA, KLA, BDHA... series etc. as already detailed. These types of Sanskrit based phonetics can be pronounced only by raising the sound generated from the abdomen, shaking the whole body, which sort of strain is not necessary while we speak Tamil-phonetics which are generated from the Throat itself and not from below.

A few centuries back, some new letters were added to Tamil letters like ƒ (Ja), … (Sa), ‡ (Ksha), ‚ (Sree), † (Ha) just to cope up with the phonetic-demands for using the Sanskrit names and such other indispensable terminologies deserving to be pronounced differently from the pre-existent Tamil letters. Even at such time of open-minded re-consideration by Tamil-Scholars, the Originality, Character and Beauty of Tamil by way of its Simplicity in pronunciation through avoiding more than one phonetic for ¸ (Ka), º (Cha), ¼ (Ta), ¾ (Tha), À (Pa) etc. has been maintained.

Purposively such unique linguistic character of Tamil has not been deviated and left unaltered because Tamil is a rich languaguage possessing adequate Vocabulary to stand on its own, with the least extent of demand for the import of words from other Languages, only in which case the linked phonetics at the source of the letter itself unlike the basis of English and Tamil where the different phonetics are developed by one and the same letter according to its placement.. Even in such cases such new alien-language words have been transformed true to the character and Basics of Tamil by means of Thadhbhavam mode. The object is not to complicate the phonetics and letters but to simplify the speech and writing.

Further there is an unusual letter Æ (ZHA) in Tamil, which light phonetic does not exist in any language nationally or internatiomally excepting Malayalam. This phonetic adds to Tamil's Sweetness. The word denoting the name of the language Tamil itself as ¾Á¢ú contains this softest phonetic as "ú" compared to any language considered in the aspect of sweetness.

Even the ITALIAN Language which is considered as the Sweetest Europian Language has become Sweet only because of its musical-phonetics caused by its nasal pronunciation.... as the case of Malayalam an Indian Language. But international scholars do not consider Malayalam the sweeter than Tamil, only because of its Sanskritised tough pronunciations similar to other Indian Languages except Tamil.

Global Linguistic Scholars assert that Sanskrit too as one of the Great Languages nationally and internationally but do not classify it under the sweetness but as the Royal-Language of command alongside its vast and ancient Vocabulary of its own far unique than Tamil.

Tamil is distinctly uncomparable with Sanskrit by way of characteristics and hence far different from other Indian Languages too (which are Sanskrit-based)... Thus its contra-distinctory Uniqueness by way of pronunciation is conspicuously noteworthy.

Åñ¼Á¢ú (VANDAMIZH): .... FERTILE - TAMIL

Tamil is named so because of its abundant vocabulary of its own independantly, being the most ancient amongst the Indian Languages as well as one amongst the International-Languages classified under this factor at par with Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Sumerian etc.

Several Tamil classical words of ancient Tamil-Literature are not found in any Indian Language nor even in any of the Global stream of Languages.

Vocabulary is measured by the extent of convenience to differentiate analtycally to the radical extent of Thoughts as for example... we differentiate in English.... between the words PULL and DRAG... Such analytical differentiation is the maximum in Tamil comparatively....

But one strange fact is... only about 40% of the ancient Tamil words we are using in even the present Tamil-Literature, while it is only between 25 % in the Spoken Tamil with the admixture of words from other Languages like Sanskrit, Persian, Portugese, Arab, Greek etc.... which are avoided as far as possible to the bare minimum in the Literal usage. So it may raise a doubt whether Tamil can really stand on its own. Yes, it can... provided such words hidden in the ancient Literature are brought out for common usage.

The amount of rich vocabulary in Tamil can be ascertained by comparison with other languages

For example in English we call WIND from all the directions by the same name as "Wind" only.

Whereas in Tamil for the Wind, it is different according to its Originating-direction.

Wind ... from the East, is called a ... ¦¸¡ñ¼ø... .......... KONDAL

.... do...... from West ................................ ÁÕ¾õ ..................... MARUTHAM

......do...... from North ................................ Å¡¨¼ ..................... VAADAI

......do........from South ............................. ¦¾ýÈø ................... THENRAL

In Sanskrit and some of the other Indian Languages there are different names for Wind from different directions but only for some of the directions and not all.

Similarly in English we say only one word common for all sorts of its function ... GIVE.

Whereas it is different .... by the Sense of Giving .... as...

¾¡ ........... THAA...................... Give...by Request on obligation

¦¸¡Î ....... KODU ................... Give... on Sale or Exchange by Barter.

ÅÆíÌ ..... VAZHANGU ........ Give.... Honourably and respectfully

«Ç¢ ....... ALHI ...................... Give.... Voluntarily .... unsought

® ............... YEE ....................... Give... Offer (Alms to Beggar) ... sought

þÎ ......... IDU ....................... Give... Offer as a duty

«Õû .... ARULH .................. Give.... Gracefully by God or any Superior.

To differentiate some of the Animals, Birds or such other Creatures on the basis of Gender, in English, it can be termed as Horse-Mare, Dog-Bitch, Lion-Lioness, Tiger-Tigress etc.

Whereas in Tamil, even for the other ordinary Creatures there are differentiating Gender-based terminologies like.... ¸Ç¢Ú - À¢Ê for Male-Female Elephant ....¿ñÎ - «ÄÅý for Male-Female Crab, »¢Á¢Ú - §¾É£ for Male-Female Honey-Bee ... it is needless to elaborate further. .

[HedgeYourBets]

I don't see how it is said kannada and telugu came from tamil.The presence of old tamil words in kannada is give as the proof.But for all you might know these words could be kannada words which tamil had borrowed ? How do you say if there are two identical words in kannada and tamil tamil was the giver and kannada was the receiver ?

So the word Pale as in Pale Kannada or Hale kannada is taken as a tamil word found in kannada and hence our srinivasans says tamil is the mother of kannada.

But Pale could actually be a kannada word , which was borrowed by tamil.

Kannada could have been the mother of of tamil , and kannada speakers must have borrowed more sanskrit words than tamils so kannada has more sanskrit words than tamil.

Think clearly.

[LottiFurmann]

with latest Archeological findings and Satelite views of Saraswathi river,

Can you give the links, please?

Vedic Perriod can be dated to earlier than 3000 BCE and Tamil from Tholkappiyam and Sanam Lit. clearly refers Vedas at many places with Reverance and that is really unique.

Have you read these texts? can you quote a few of those? Sorry, I dont know much about these and just curious to know the truth.

[NeroASERCH]

Dear Friend,

Please goto search and give Devapriya or Solomon and read all posts you would see several posts quoting Sangam Lit. and Vedas.

I have a fair knowledge of both and do not claim an expert please and look Tamil and Sanskrit as the Two eyes of India.

Vedas refers to Sindu river as florishing and no reference to Ganga, Indus dried compleetly by 1900BCE and drying started by 2200BCE, hence Vedic period could be 5000- 2000BCE

Devapriya.