[Fegasderty]

You all have missed out - Malar edhu un kangal thaan endru solvenadee - Avalukendru oru manam ! One of the lenghthiest preludes & interludes of MSV . I believe IR & GKV were also part of this epic composition which was made at a rapid speed in just 30 minutes span !

Again, Ulagamengum orey mozhi - Nadodee has one of the unique ludes with violin being used in 2 aspects , as base & as lead

Ramesh has already mentioned Yaar andha nilavu a song which was way ahead of times then !

Billgates has highlighted Venira aadai
True ! I havent seen Piano being used so effectively !

Why noone has mentioned Enge nimmadhi
IMO, only Madai thirandhu of Raja can be on par with this composition !

Oru Raja raniyidam - Starts with a different prelude & has 3 different interludes !

Thamizukkum amudhendru peyar - Again has very lengthy preludes totally different from main theme but jells very well !

Avalukkennna - Server Sundaram - is an outstanding song with superb preludes & interludes , each one different !

THE LIST IF ENDLESS .

[S.T.D.]

vijay,

I moved it here since this topic started off discussing both IR & MSV. Don't worry, I'll move it to MOY if the visibility drops.

[Lillie_Steins]

Preludes and interludes which were a different tune from the main tune of the song, while it maintained the mood of the song was predominantly popularised by IR. Before that the prelude will be almost the instrumental version of the main song and interludes will be some fill music. Although there were many other composers like Salida and MSV, who used this technique of different prelude occasionaly, IR was the one to use it extensively and popularise it

Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

[Slonopotam845]

Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

Mr.BillGates,
Ok jump at me after quoting some examples.
AS far I have listened to MSV's music-pre 1976 his preludes were the instrumental version, same as the main tune of the song, most of the time [say 90% ]
Only after the advent of IR this got changed.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Originally Posted by Billgates
Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

Mr.BillGates,
Ok jump at me after quoting some examples.
AS far I have listened to MSV's music-pre 1976 his preludes were the instrumental version, same as the main tune of the song, most of the time [say 90% ]
Only after the advent of IR this got changed.
Not sure whether you are aware of the follg songs & none of them have relation to the main tune :

Sivandha mann – Oru raja raniyidam
Kadhalikka neramillai – Naalaam naalam thirunaalam
Ooty varai uravu - Thedinen vandhadhu
Parakkum paavai - Kalayana naal paarka
Deiva thaai – Oru pennai paarthu nilavai paarthen
Engal thangam – Thanga padhakathin mele
Vaazkai padagu – Aayiram penmai malaruttme
Enga veetu pillai – Kangalum kaavadi sindhadattum
Avargal – Kaatrukenna veli ( don’t say that this came after IR’s arrival ! )
Pasam – Ulagam pirandhadhu enakaaga
Ulagam suttrum vaaliban – Thanga thoniyile & Lilli malarukku
Nadodee – Thirumi vaa oliye thirumbi vaa

The above songs infact have a lengthy preludes & they are in no way linked to main song but sync beautifully !

It’s a big list. I have just given few examples to you so that you may get enlightened

By the way, I am a woman….. So Ms only pls !

Besides, I too love IR music but no comparisons with MSV pls

[doctorzlo]

Not sure whether you are aware of the follg songs & none of them have relation to the main tune :

Sivandha mann – Oru raja raniyidam
Kadhalikka neramillai – Naalaam naalam thirunaalam
Ooty varai uravu - Thedinen vandhadhu
Parakkum paavai - Kalayana naal paarka
Deiva thaai – Oru pennai paarthu nilavai paarthen
Engal thangam – Thanga padhakathin mele
Vaazkai padagu – Aayiram penmai malaruttme
Enga veetu pillai – Kangalum kaavadi sindhadattum
Avargal – Kaatrukenna veli ( don’t say that this came after IR’s arrival ! )
Pasam – Ulagam pirandhadhu enakaaga
Ulagam suttrum vaaliban – Thanga thoniyile & Lilli malarukku
Nadodee – Thirumi vaa oliye thirumbi vaa

The above songs infact have a lengthy preludes & they are in no way linked to main song but sync beautifully !

It’s a big list. I have just given few examples to you so that you may get enlightened

By the way, I am a woman….. So Ms only pls !

Besides, I too love IR music but no comparisons with MSV pls

Ms.Billgates

Fine I remember every tune of the song you have mentioned here and have listened to them umpteen times. But the preludes never got registered in my mind [except the Aaaaa.... for Katrukkenna Veli] hence i should have slipped in telling MSV's song dont have a different prelude. IMO MSV's songs were more popular for their simple yet beautiful tunes and that is why they get registered well while he dont give much importance to the preludes and interludes.
On the other end IR used to give us richly orchestrated songs with beautiful preludes and interludes, which gets registered well in our minds.that is why when i sing [ a bathroom singer ofcourse ] his songs, i start right from humming the prelude move on to the song, then, hum the interludes, and then, finish of the song.
This is not my individual experience it happens to many, i have noticed who tries singing an IR song. If not why then there are many articles and posts right here in TFM page discussing the preludes and interludes of Raja. Infact the Forum even conducted a contest on 'Ludes of Raja'.
This post is not to demean MSV in any way. It is a thought i have that IR gave new dimensions and colors to the preludes and interludes in his songs and MSV was very good at coming up with nice tunes. That is why when they worked together MSV was assigned to set the tune while IR was assigned to Orchestrate [/tscii]

[radikal]

Hi,

Guys like Rajasaranam are typical of he generation which has grown up with post IR. On the contrary people like me have grown up with the VR (visu-ramu) era, that should be really called the golden period of tfm.

VR have given so many varieties of preludes and interludes which have abs no connection with the tune of the song that follows, but at the same time blends in beautifully with the latter part that they should be rightly called the geniuses of tfm. I will give only one example -- the tms song from paasam - ulagam piranthuthu enakkaga, in which the prelude is different and the interlude between each stanza varies.
there are four stanzas in all.

I want nincompoops like rajasaranam to listen to this outstanding number and many more. can't digest the general impression of these post ir generations that the songs before his arrival were not good. on the contrary i feel they are far better than what ir and a host of others have composed later.

and another song i would recommend, just for the sake of justfiying my point while there are so many in all, is the en vaazvil puthuppadai kanden by ps in thanga padumai. ask this gentleman who feels msv is a run of the mill composer to listen to this song from the late 1950s (VR).

And there are very subtle differentiations even in the same interludes by msv. he changes the order of usage of instruments to provide the difference (example is ooty varai uravu song poo malayin ore malligai).

I have seen many stupid comments in these forums like the one terming tms's voice as nasal etc, but the one by rajasaranam takes the cake.

[Ifroham4]

hence i should have slipped in telling MSV's song dont have a different prelude. IMO MSV's songs were more popular for their simple yet beautiful tunes and that is why they get registered well while he dont give much importance to the preludes and interludes.
On the other end IR used to give us richly orchestrated songs with beautiful preludes and interludes, which gets registered well in our minds.that is why when i sing [ a bathroom singer ofcourse ] his songs, i start right from humming the prelude move on to the song, then, hum the interludes, and then, finish of the song.
This is not my individual experience it happens to many, i have noticed who tries singing an IR song. If not why then there are many articles and posts right here in TFM page discussing the preludes and interludes of Raja. Infact the Forum even conducted a contest on 'Ludes of Raja'.
This post is not to demean MSV in any way. It is a thought i have that IR gave new dimensions and colors to the preludes and interludes in his songs and MSV was very good at coming up with nice tunes. That is why when they worked together MSV was assigned to set the tune while IR was assigned to Orchestrate [/tscii]

Mr. Rajasaranam

All the above numbers are quite famous songs even today . I am surprised how you couldnt remember the BGM & interludes !

Infact what I did list yesterday were just few.
Have you listened to Vennira Adai songs ? Terrific preludes & interludes all the way . This movie is an audio delight ! Noone till date could have used PIANO the way it was used for Enna enna varthaigalo or Kannan ennum mannan perai

Oops. I have missed out the preludes for Rajavin paarvai raniyin pakkam

In a way what you said was partly true . MSV probably composed tunes to meet with the situation warranted as he was very particular that the song should be part of the movie but not decide the course of the movie !

No doubt IR revolutionised this concept of preludes & interludes BY LAUNCHING WESTERN INSTRUMENTS like Guitar - lead & Bass

Mr. Ramaswamy - Cool down pls ! I dont think Rajasaranam has denounced MSV Infact he has highlighted the great strengths of MSV - EXPERTISE ON COMPOSING TUNES

[PhillipHer]

Mr.Rajasaranam

This arrow is at you again Pl listen to Ponmagal vandhaal - Sorgam - Shivaji movie.

You will be amazed by the thunderous preludes WHICH WILL HAVE NO CONNECTION AT ALL TO THE MAIN TUNE OF THE SONG
Listen to the interludes section also & comment

EXPECTING YOUR COMMENTS PLS

[S.T.D.]

Hi,
Guys like Rajasaranam are typical of he generation which has grown up with post IR. On the contrary people like me have grown up with the VR (visu-ramu) era, that should be really called the golden period of tfm.

Not necessarily there are many over here who consider the 80's as the Golden Period Of TFM when a composer was elevated to the status of a SuperStar and his Image was put up on posters in order to lure the film audience.

VR have given so many varieties of preludes and interludes which have abs no connection with the tune of the song that follows, but at the same time blends in beautifully with the latter part that they should be rightly called the geniuses of tfm. I will give only one example -- the tms song from paasam - ulagam piranthuthu enakkaga, in which the prelude is different and the interlude between each stanza varies.
there are four stanzas in all.

I want nincompoops like rajasaranam to listen to this outstanding number and many more. can't digest the general impression of these post ir generations that the songs before his arrival were not good. on the contrary i feel they are far better than what ir and a host of others have composed later.

Thanks for pointing out that Iam a nincompoop. But try reading my first post, where I never said anything wrong about MSV and just said they too have given songs with Different preludes and Interludes while IR bettered in this aspect. And moreover I stood corrected after Ms.Billgates pointed out with some examples and gave the reasons as to why I dont rememeber them. Do you know Englipisssh then READ all the above posts and tell me where I have said that songs before IR's arrival were not good. After analysing this try finding out who is a 'nincompoop' :P

and another song i would recommend, just for the sake of justfiying my point while there are so many in all, is the en vaazvil puthuppadai kanden by ps in thanga padumai. ask this gentleman who feels msv is a run of the mill composer to listen to this song from the late 1950s (VR).

And there are very subtle differentiations even in the same interludes by msv. he changes the order of usage of instruments to provide the difference (example is ooty varai uravu song poo malayin ore malligai).

I Would recommed a song title 'Senthazham Poovil' where in there are three different interludes and each interlude elevates the song its mood and the lyrics to an entirely different plane. especially the magudi like sound just before 'Valainthu nelinthu Pogum Paathai' was brilliant to relate 'Valainthu nelinthu' to a 'Snake' and in turn relating it to the sound of the magudi.
Or try listening to 'Vaanuyrandha Solayilae' where in just before lyrics 'Aatrangarai Orathilae Yaarumatra nerathilae Veetriruntha Manarparappu Vethanayai Koorumadi' He adds up a eery kind of blowing air sound and a single Kuyil screeching.
The mental Imagery these kind of Subtle idioms produces are greater and reaches far high than any other composer Living or Dead IMHO.

I have seen many stupid comments in these forums like the one terming tms's voice as nasal etc, but the one by rajasaranam takes the cake.

Thanks

[Fegasderty]

Mr.Rajasaranam

This arrow is at you again Pl listen to Ponmagal vandhaal - Sorgam - Shivaji movie.

You will be amazed by the thunderous preludes WHICH WILL HAVE NO CONNECTION AT ALL TO THE MAIN TUNE OF THE SONG
Listen to the interludes section also & comment

EXPECTING YOUR COMMENTS PLS

The less than 10 seconds prelude is too small to analyze while it does gives the opening punch to the song. But the interesting aspect of the song was the second lengthy interlude with amazing choral works and nicely interwoven music. :claps:
But As mentioned earlier the Tune of the song is overpowering these ludes and that is what is the power of MSV.
While I reiterate that IR gave us the songs as a complete package rather than concentrating on one aspect alone.

And please If you people Excuse Us let we people Discuss On Raja's Contributions over here and I will be obliged to visit a thread if you start on the ludes of MSV and sure to pour in some comments.

[Lt_Apple]

Prelude of YAAR ANTHA NILAVU/ KUYILAGA NAAN IRUENTHENA(jaishankar movie)/MADHANA MALLIGAI(twist and turn throughout the song). ALANGARAM KALYANTHA SILAI ONRU KANDEN(hear the violin part in interlude) etc etc.

Yes IR is genius and gave different style when he stormed TFM but does not mean he is greatest.

Guys like Rajasaranam are typical of he generation which has grown up with post IR. On the contrary people like me have grown up with the VR (visu-ramu) era, that should be really called the golden period of tfm.

yes. When VR started together there was lot of criticism about style and method. MSV gave new dimension to TFM and moved from carnatic base and adopted light music base. MSV tried jazz/western type in those days. Those who started listening music post IR era would not have listened these songs and by nature they will say IR IS BEST.

Point is new style and revolution not happend only after IR arrival but it was happend prior to IR and after IR also.

regards
ramesh

[Lillie_Steins]

Balaji

forgive me for not mentioning about MALAR EDHU&PUTHIYA PARAVAI

Would like to add THEDYI NAAYANE VANDHU from Ootivari uravu.
jazz kind of prelude .

Prelude of PAARUVAM ENADHU PADAL

ramesh

[Fegasderty]

Balaji

forgive me for not mentioning about MALAR EDHU&PUTHIYA PARAVAI

Would like to add THEDYI NAAYANE VANDHU from Ootivari uravu.
jazz kind of prelude .

Prelude of PAARUVAM ENADHU PADAL

ramesh

Ramesh

Malar edhu patriya info ( about IR-GKV participation ) neenga dhaane koduthadhu in MSV thread ! Eppadi marakalaam ??

Listening to the preludes, one will conclude that they will get a feel of swimming !

Ofcoure Parumenadhu padal was outstanding ! Did you notice during interludes - Oru Arabian music will surface from nowhere through flutes !! mesmerising !

Not to forget the trumphet interludes during Adho andha paravai pola !

Pavam MSV - He is so down to earth person & humble - Avarukke avarudaya saadhanai patriya arumai theriyadhu ! It seems he has great memory loss !

Parunga Ramesh - Even after 50 years MSV songs will be heard at large

[S.T.D.]

Do I need to say anything more about : THANGA PADHAKATHIN MELE ?The very fact that ARR himself was inspired says it all !

The arrangement of preludes & interludes for this song & the speed with which the ludes are structured !

There is another song - Naan alavodu rasipavan - from the same movie Engal thangam . Though this song was overshadowed due to the splendid rhythm of Thanga padhakathin , this song was another gem with lovely ludes using flute & violin !

The interludes of Pattathu Raani paarkum paarvai - INTIMIDATING

[Big A]

the grand trumpet opening in "naan oru kaadhal sanyasi" and the mega prelude and interludes of "pachhai kiLi muthu charam" for puratchi thalaivar still give me goose pimples.

[TorryJens]

Thumbru

You have mentioned great songs. I was thinking about PACHAIKILI.from USV . thanks for pointing out the same.

Our balaji has writeen(may be done research ) about MSV songs in current topics not only in general terms but how MSV improvised tune/interlude etc etc. for reference pl check his postings.

As I use to say quiet often we have discussed all these years about MSV but we continue to discuss and as pointed out by balaji we will discuss in future also.

The less than 10 seconds prelude is too small to analyze

please hear MALAR ETHU&PACHAIKILLI MUTHHU CHARAM &PARUVAM ENADHU PADAL I think it is more than 10 seconds.
We have listed only few songs ..list is endless.

ramesh

[Slonopotam845]

prelude and interlude of NAAN THANANTHI KATTU RAJA. awesome.

Unnakena melay ninrai/kanna kannum kangal mella. Hope this is enough.

ramesh

[radikal]

I think this thread should be moved to "memories of yesteryears" section rather than current topics where its bound to get pushed up soon(admin??)

One of my favourites, that blew me away when I first listened to it and compelled me to look at MSV from a different angle was the Jazz pioneer "varavendum oru pozhudhu" -piano/brass/drums all having rollicking fun and then just about slowing down to set the mood for LRE's crooning. Listen to it here
http://www.tfmpage.com/cgi-bin/strea...m/sotd/vara.rm

Havent listened to anything close to this from other MDs of those times be it TFM or HFM. Jazz seemed to be exclusively MSV's playground at that time.

[Lt_Apple]

Billgates and Co: Some other songs with excellent and sometimes breathtaking preludes and/or interludes : Ahaaya Pandalile, Inbame, Anbu Nadamaadum, Manjal Mugam (Karnan-listen to the sequence of violin,flute, humming and clapping- in fact the use of Shehnai and sarangi in the whole movie is simply astounding)), Poi Vaa Magale, Ninaithale inikkum songs (Engeyum, Bharathi Kannnamma, What a waiting)..... In many cases, the preludes and interludes have been cut short
in the recordings. Even the Ponmagal Vandaal prelude is longer in the movie.
RRA