[phinno13]

Throughout the country there are places where people can go for "entertainment."

i think thats probably true for every country in the world...

[Fdhwzctl]

It's nice to see people are at least having this discussion. I am an American male. Years ago my sister and I joined a guided tour (with a few other Americans and UK tourists) from Bangkok down into Trang making stops in between. It was pretty amazing; petchaburi, chumphon, and some underground temple in a town I've forgotten the name of, were highlights. I came back telling everyone how "amazing" Thailand was, and how great the people are.

My impression of Thailand was very positive before and after our visit. I had images of strip clubs in my mind assoc. with the Vietnam war and I think I though that stuff was in Vietnam. "sex tourism" wasn't even a part of my vocabulary until years later. It's amazing what you don't see when you're not looking for it.

Anyway, years later I met a thai grad student here in the states and we started dating. A year later were married. She completed her undergrad in bangkok and saw firsthand both the positive and dark side of tourism in thailand. For a long time I laughed at the though of someone getting on a 24-hr flight to go to the other side of the world just to XXX. Then the news got hold of it (or maybe I just started paying attention) and I think everyone here in America now thinks that thailand is one giant XXX. I think that says something as bad about American as it does Thailand. Before, when I mentioned Thailand, people usually responded with: "where?", or they had a fairly positive impression. That is currently not the case.

It's very, very sad to me, but I it is think a long time coming. The American media portrays everything in a twisted light, but thailand was really just asking for this. The solution seems so simple to me: close down the "red light" districts that tourists go to and start enforcing the law that makes prostitution illegal, at least for the sex offenders that fly there to XXX. Every culture has prostitution (and a population young girls whose lack of opportunity is replaced with sexual exploitation). The difference is that Thailand now seems to wear it on it's sleeve. America hides it so well you wouldn't even know that it goes on here, which it does. If prostitution is part of the thai culture, ok, but they need to understand how this is perceived in the eyes of foreigners if the want the rest of the world to take them seriously.

The Thai people are so sweet and kind-hearted. I've traveled everywhere and I can honestly say that the people I met in Thailand were the best. Thailand needs to take steps to deal with its image. The reality is that sex tourist are a very small part of tourism in thailand, but do a ton of damage to the image of the county.

Well the industry could be stopped or controlled, couldn't it? But that would have a major effect on tourism.

Blind eyes are better turned, palms are better greased

The suggested ban on alcohol over songkran has not been pursued because, the authorities have said, it will damage tourism revenues! Check the news clippings. This is the Thai way

[Fdhwzctl]

This is something that seems to be a commonly held notion, that Thais in general have 'mai pen rai' and will avoid all conflicts and whatnot. This isn't necessarily true. I was in a taxi once and it gave a mild ding to a car in the next lane in the middle of a busy Bangkok street. They both got out and the other driver was all attitude and was angry, and the taxi driver started yelling too. Thankfully a cop came by but I was afraid they were going to go at it.

I think Thais like anyone else in the world won't necessarily avoid conflict.

Your example is a good one and quite predictable. Road rage is high here for serious "incidents". But in a normal situation an argument, over a faulty bit of equipment for example, would develop differently and gradually in the west but explode quickly without warning here when loss of face became unbearable. It is the experience of living here and not just visiting that has developed my understanding. And this is not Thai bashing or pontificating on right or wrong, only observations. I have no problem living here.

A minor road accident will usually result in mae bhen rai being shown ( although if a farang is involved other considerations come into play )

[casinobonyanes]

HI



why is it that many new members come here with a set agenda
and their own perceptions of Thailand. and don't really care what others think. both pro and con.

the average foreigner is not even aware Thailand exist.

the average foreign tourist comes here for sun, beach, culture, and because it is cheap.

only a small vocal minority come to Thailand for the sex trade.

Not trying to get too much into the "other" discussion (if you know what I mean), but my guess is that a large, rather than small, number of vocal tourists come to Thailand specifically for the vices. It is a huge industry, and unfortunately one of the first stereotypes many have about Thailand (why do you think I get all those stupid comments from people whenever I say that I am going to Thailand).

[Fdhwzctl]

HI

Most foreigners have no idea or any perceptions of thailand most don't even know it exists or where it is. at least in the USA LOL.
It depends who you ask also. If you ask in Bars then it all is about sex. but mostly urban myth type response no first hand knowlegde. if you ask in church then it is about helping poor and trying to convert. actually more people in churches have first hand knowledge than people in bars" go figure".

I was out and about yesterday asking people what their perceptions were just for kicks
85% had no perceptions most didn't even know where thailand was. or any thing about it
here are some of the reponse's

I watched a special on TV once doesn't Thailand have too many big snakes.?

Do they have shopping centers there "really"

they have elephants? really" I thought only Africa had elephants so is Thailand in Africa

I like the cloths and dance. and culture. I loved the movie the King and I

I am sure if I went to a bar or strip club the reponse's would have been much different

I don't know about the rest of the world but American's know very little about the world.

Really??

I was going to say sarcastically that "most" people don't know where America is, but thought better of it!

Please tell me you're joking or at least that you mean "some" when you wrote "most"

[L8fGLM4d]

I am a reasonably educated woman but before I came to Thailand for the first time in 2001 for a conference the first and most prevalent info I had had of Thailand was "sex industry". a friend had a hard time convincing her father to let her come because all he could think of was "sex industry" and he feared his pretty daughter would be kidnapped and sold. before I started writing my blog about living in Thailand, many of my friends and my family had only heard about "sex industry" and maybe had seen the movie "The Beach". when my two male friends (single, in their 30s) came to Thailand for a first visit, they got innumerable hints and sneers from friends and family. (and then of course they could never get into a taxi without getting an offer - this is something I had had no idea about before.)
I don't think this is due to my ignorance or my friends' ignorance. ok, reality is not nearly as bad as the country's perception, but it is perceived as it is for a reason. if Thai people are so unhappy about this perception of their country, they maybe they should force their government (ehm, their what?) to eradicate abuse, trafficking, trade and exploitation of people, including children.

sorry I am so harsh.

[Fdhwzctl]

HI



why is it that many new members come here with a set agenda
and their own perceptions of Thailand. and don't really care what others think. both pro and con.

the average foreigner is not even aware Thailand exist.

the average foreign tourist comes here for sun, beach, culture, and because it is cheap.

only a small vocal minority come to Thailand for the sex trade.

Sorry, don't understand what you're getting at.

new members, set agenda,

"average foreigner" on the one hand you say he is not aware of thailand then in the next sentence comes for sun beach etc.

Sorry you've lost me. Have you googled tourist stats for Thailand by country.

[spiveker]

i don't really disagree. i just wonder what could possibly change and how that would work.

maybe i am not imaginative enough but what should the government do?
which steps do you have in mind?
another of those... fascinating TAT campaigns? more laws? kill'em all mentality like during the drug hunts?

maybe they do take it serious but there is nothing they can do?

Noppelchen, I don't think it requires much imagination, but if you want me to propose a solution: I think if the goal was simply to uncouple the tourism industry from the sex industry, they could selectively enforce their anti-prostitution laws anywhere foreigners are traveling exclusively for sex. Ultimately sex tourism that exists in one of the many other countries around the world would presumably experience a rise. Hopefully those countries too will deal with these issues. And of course there's still the issue of all the women and children exploited through prostitution all over the world, but that is beyond the scope of this thread. To sight a list of thai political failures then say "maybe they do take it serious but there is nothing they can do" make me think you don't believe the thai people have a genuine interest in changing this perception. I believe they do.

Why do they need to understand western sensitivities. It is their country. And you won't be thanked for telling a Thai anything about their way of life. There is a lot to learn about understanding the Thai way.

Peacerichard, I'll take a lesson in the "thai way" from you another time, but please don't try and tell me that your average thai is not upset with foreign perceptions toward their country, that is of course if they are familiar with foreign perceptions toward their country at all. The thai community I know here in the states is familiar, and they're very unhappy about it.

Well the industry could be stopped or controlled, couldn't it? But that would have a major effect on tourism.

Blind eyes are better turned, palms are better greased

The suggested ban on alcohol over songkran has not been pursued because, the authorities have said, it will damage tourism revenues! Check the news clippings. This is the Thai way

If it's to have a major effect on tourism, presumably sex tourism is a major portion of tourism overall. I would love to see this issue put before the citizens of Thailand.

[casinobonyanes]

I do not think the Thais want to change the perception. It is not the Thai way, westernised or not. They walk away from it and pretend it doesn't exist. There are threads on this forum with posts from long-time posters, some not farang, one of which I have just read and clearly summarises their view. The issue doesn't need to be put to Thai citizens and it won't be. It is not a perceived problem for them. They can and do deal with it their way.

I have to agree with you. We can analyze this whole situation to death and offer our opinions, but in the end, it's their country and theirs to run it as they see fit. If enough people felt bad about how their country is perceived (and this goes for any country), then the people themselves have to change it, not any outsiders. Sure if enough Thai citizens were truly concerned that their main image may be that of an adult playground, then they will have to act on it.

But again, many of us know that even if they would want to crack down on the foreign dollars that support this 'entertainment,' what good is that when this 'entertainment' is something that is widespread throughout the country. As stated before it's not like foreigners are the only ones that have frequented these places. It's institutional. And of course, we are talking billions of dollars a year, a significant part of the GDP. There's no way you can make that go away with what little money people make these days.

But as mikeheart alludes to, I have also met many people who never even talked about the 'entertainment nightlife.' They are curious about the beaches, food, and shopping. So there are many other perceptions. But this is one of the more pervasive ones.

So, in conclusion, it's not our business to "change" the perception of what Thailand is like. Many of us know the real Thailand outside of "entertainment." So it's pointless to target only one aspect of this, when there are so many other factors and billions of dollars at stake. Change rests with the Thai people, if they want to change any negative perceptions.

[Fdhwzctl]

Imho, most of your answers are too shallow.

I agree but would it not be more constructive to give some examples why you think they are shallow.

The poster is talking about perceptions and I think it is true that the average foreigner thinks of Thailand as a sex haven; where all the people are smiling happy and contented; the present king is so loved; a land of natural beauty; a country with beautiful temples, traditional dances etc; low cost of living; political instability; some tourist trip-offs; high respect for buddhism; relatively dangerous by global standards.

The thread is not about the reality. (To what extent is the country a constitutional monarchy, how free is the press, is the judiciary independent, is corruption a permanent factor in Thai lifestyle, are class barriers insurmountable, do education standards reinforce the present structure of society )

And those examples are not amongst a foreigner's perception of Thailand, in my view