A Songkran Legend - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**triardwonvada** · 04-09-2011, 01:34 PM

Going through our things today and sorting out what we wanted to pack for our move to the Pacific Northwest this summer, we came across this sheet with the legend of Songkran. It was one of the materials we volunteers received from our Peace Corps trainers during our time in Thailand. We have no idea where it came from originally.

The Songkran Festival

Around the 13th of April, where ever you travel in Thailand, you come across people going about in groups with water in all kinds of vessels. They throw water on all who pass, laughing gaily. This is Songkran time. Songkran probably originated in southern India. This custom is observed in most of the countries of the Golden Peninsula in some form or other. There is an ancient legend which goes with the celebrations.

Once upon a time, there lived in the heavenly region with Indra as the supreme God, a young celestial named Dharmapal. He was widely recognized as a very wise and holy young god. There was a man of great wealth on earth at the time, who was constantly performing great and good deeds, who had no son. He prayed to Indra to give him one. To reward him, Indra asked Dharmapal to leave his heavenly home to be born as a son of the rich and good man.

When Dharmapal became a young man, he began to acquire a great reputation for wisdom and goodness. A celestial from the heavens of Brahma, who was not under Iindra became disturbed for some unexplained reason. It probably was jealousy, as gods and men with powers seem prone to this weakness. He came one day to see Dharmapal and entered into a contest of wisdom with him. The god, whose name was Kabilphrom, posed a certain question, which had to be answered within seven days. He offered to sever his head if Dharmapal could give him the right answer, but if Dharmapal failed, Kabilphrom would take the young man's head.

Dharmapal racked his brain for six days, but on the seventh he went and laid down under a tall tree in the forest. Through his knowledge of animal languages, he overheard a pair of eagles tell his mate the answer to Kabilphrom's question. When Kabilphrom appeared at the end of the day, Dharmapal was ready with the correct answer.

The question was: in which part of the human body does "rasi" reside? Now this word cannot be satisfactorily translated into English or into any language. Nor is it originally a Thai word. The meaning ranges from "section", " blessing", " luster", "radiance", to "greatness". The correct answer expected by Kabilphrom resided in the face in the morning, and the chest in the middle of the day, and in the feet in the evening. Human beings washed and scented the respective parts of the body regularly during the respective parts of the day.

Kabilphrom had no choice now but to allow his head to be severed from his body. He called his seven daughters together. He explained that he was such a powerful god that if his severed head fell on the land, a great fire would spread all over the earth. If thrown into the ocean, it would dry up. If thrown into the air, the heavens would be destroyed. A special receptacle must be made to receive his head. It must then be placed in a mountain cave high up in the abode of the gods. Every 365 days one of his daughters was to commemorate her father's honor by leading a great procession with his head on the receptacle across the sky, circling Mount Krailas, the dwelling place of the highest of the gods

The term Soingkran used by astrologers means "passing". It is used for the passing of the sun from one house into the next. The thirteenth of April marks the passing of the sun from the 12th, the last back into its so-called "first rasi". We know that the sun is at its hottest and brightest during this month all over the southern parts of India and the countries of the Golden Region. Of course, for rice growers, harvest is usually in February and by March, all work for the year is over. May is the beginning of the working year, as the southwest monsoon starts. And ploughing sometimes is carried out the last week of April, as soon as the soil is softened by early rains. The middle of April is about the right time for festivals.

Songkran and Easter are celebrated very closely one to the other. Songkran is reckoned by the solar , and Easter by the lunar calendar. Both originally may have marked the return of the sun to the northern hemisphere, and the timewhen life reawakens after winter in northern latitudes, and after the hot dry season in monsoon countries.

Whatever its origin, Songkran is a happy time for people in Thailand. Along with the throwing of water, the playing of games, and cooking of seasonal foods, most Thai families invite Buddhist monks into their homes offering them the best of the dishes and sweets. Some Thai families keep small pieces of bones belonging to their parents or grandparents, which have been intentionally left unconsumed by the fire at the cremation. These they wash with scented water after the monks have recited some Buddhist scripture in the Pali language. Members of the families listen with not so much attention since they do not understand Pali. The kind act of offering food seems to make everyone happy, and that is the most important thing to the Thai people. Some Songkran celebrations are carried on for the better part of the week. Then people settle down to await the monsoon. They mend their farm implements and their houses to be ready for coming rains.

**97dYA9L3** · 04-09-2011, 01:53 PM

It is so sad that at time of unity the country is currently so divided.

**Uojeyak** · 04-09-2011, 08:07 PM

[I]

Whatever its origin, Songkran is a happy time for people in Thailand. Along with the throwing of water, the playing of games, and cooking of seasonal foods, most Thai families invite Buddhist monks into their homes offering them the best of the dishes and sweets. Some Thai families keep small pieces of bones belonging to their parents or grandparents, which have been intentionally left unconsumed by the fire at the cremation. These they wash with scented water after the monks have recited some Buddhist scripture in the Pali language. Members of the families listen with not so much attention since they do not understand Pali. The kind act of offering food seems to make everyone happy, and that is the most important thing to the Thai people. Some Songkran celebrations are carried on for the better part of the week. Then people settle down to await the monsoon. They mend their farm implements and their houses to be ready for coming rains.

Thanks for that Norb. There is a bit though in the last passage which isn't true (not nowadays anyways for sure!) Most families do not invite monks into their homes! In fact, monks aren't supposed to leave their temples during Songkran! So, families make merit by giving alms to the monks at the temple instead of the monks going on an alms round. Monks should never enter someone's house unless it is for a wedding, blessing house ceremony etc...

The families don't understand Pali....... neither do most of the monks!

Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing.

Playing games at Songkran? besides chucking water, the only game i can think of Thais playing (especially the women) is Pok Daeng (card game played for money!) I've known of a few families who arrange a Bingo game for the kids, but certainly not a Thai tradition!

Cooking seasonal food? Is there such a thing? Means fruit, right?

Await the monsoon? Yeah.... but only the rural farmers.

**aideriimibion** · 04-10-2011, 03:15 AM

Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing.

I don't know about having them scented by monks for Songkran, but you can read about keeping of pieces of bone from the deceased in Khmer culture in this recent thread:-

http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?p=170323

David

**triardwonvada** · 04-10-2011, 05:38 AM

Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing.

Thanks for the clarifications. As I was saying I have no idea where this piece came from originally. But I did have an experience with the bones. During our time in the Peace Corps we were living with a Thai family in a village near Uthong. On Songkran after finishing lunch, Aon, the 18 year old daughter, the only one who spoke some English in the family, brought out a tall brass container and started polishing it. I had no idea what it was and asked her what was inside and if I could look. She unscrewed the top and I stuck my finger inside. When I pulled it out it had some grey powder on it. "What is this?" I asked still without a clue. "This is my father," she answered, "my family is going to go to the Wat today and a monk is going to bless this urn." I apologized profusely and she just said:"mai pben rai ka".

Later I learned -- probably from our Thai trainers -- about the custom of leaving some bones and apparently some of the ashes for the family to place in a small container to keep in their homes. Perhaps this is a custom you primarily find in villages. Well, we have one here at our house with some of our son's ashes. Some of it we had blessed by a monk and sent it down the Ping river in Chiangmai during Yee Peng (Loy Krathong).

**Cnbaapuy** · 04-10-2011, 07:29 AM

Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing.

Many Thai families keep bones of their deceased parents, grandparents and ancestors in urns and shrine them in their houses’ worship room, my family has followed this tradition, the photo - some urns of my ancestors’ bones. During Songkran festival, monks and temple committee will set up the date for ÊÃ§¹éÓ¾ÃÐ - Srong Naam Phra of their temple.

ÊÃ§¹éÓ¾ÃÐ - Srong Naam Phra is the ceremony of pouring water on Buddha images or/and monks.

Every year my family brings the bone urns to our regular temple, there is a merit-making in the morning, we prepare food, flowers, candle, incense, Thai perfume (¹éÓÍºä·Â – naam op Thai) for the ceremony of morning chanting.

All urns are gathered in front of Buddha statues, surrounded with white thread or sai sin (ÊÒÂÊÔ*¨¹ì) which links to Buddha statues and the monks while they are chanting. After chanting the abbot sprinkles holy water (¹éÓÁ¹µÃì – naam mon) to these urns and merit makers.

Normally ‘Srong Naam Phra’ is held in early afternoon, started with monk chant, pouring water for merit-making to the deceased, monk blessing, the monks srong nam (pour water) on Buddha statues, then people srong naam (pour water) on Buddha statues, monks and novices (photo from oknation.net). The water used in this ceremony will be added with Thai perfume, rose petals or/and jasmine.

After people finish ‘srong naam phra’, some temples may have Ã´¹éÓ¼ÙéãË*è (rod naam phu yai) – to pour water on the hands of elder, respectable persons in order to pay respect and get blessed. In the north, Ã´¹éÓ¼ÙéãË*è (rod naam phu yai) is called Ã´¹éÓ´ÓËÑÇ (rod naam dum hua).

**triardwonvada** · 04-09-2012, 10:13 AM

Thanks for your post. These urns look exactly like the one I was talking about. Are the red ones you commonly see in stores just a cheaper version used for the same purpose?

Part of our training in Uthong was a blessing ceremony. Since I was one of the older ones in our group I was sitting down with about three or four others and the rest of the group came around to do the blessing. A few days later back in the village it was I who was doing the blessing of the elders in our host family. There wasn't a lot of water splashing going on in the village. Across from the wat a bunch of kids had blocked the street asking for toll, a donation for the wat. We put some money in the bucket and got splashed anyway which felt really good in the 100 F April heat. We only experienced the "full impact" of Songkran in Chiangmai a year later.

04-09-2011, 01:34 PM	#1
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	A Songkran Legend Going through our things today and sorting out what we wanted to pack for our move to the Pacific Northwest this summer, we came across this sheet with the legend of Songkran. It was one of the materials we volunteers received from our Peace Corps trainers during our time in Thailand. We have no idea where it came from originally. The Songkran Festival Around the 13th of April, where ever you travel in Thailand, you come across people going about in groups with water in all kinds of vessels. They throw water on all who pass, laughing gaily. This is Songkran time. Songkran probably originated in southern India. This custom is observed in most of the countries of the Golden Peninsula in some form or other. There is an ancient legend which goes with the celebrations. Once upon a time, there lived in the heavenly region with Indra as the supreme God, a young celestial named Dharmapal. He was widely recognized as a very wise and holy young god. There was a man of great wealth on earth at the time, who was constantly performing great and good deeds, who had no son. He prayed to Indra to give him one. To reward him, Indra asked Dharmapal to leave his heavenly home to be born as a son of the rich and good man. When Dharmapal became a young man, he began to acquire a great reputation for wisdom and goodness. A celestial from the heavens of Brahma, who was not under Iindra became disturbed for some unexplained reason. It probably was jealousy, as gods and men with powers seem prone to this weakness. He came one day to see Dharmapal and entered into a contest of wisdom with him. The god, whose name was Kabilphrom, posed a certain question, which had to be answered within seven days. He offered to sever his head if Dharmapal could give him the right answer, but if Dharmapal failed, Kabilphrom would take the young man's head. Dharmapal racked his brain for six days, but on the seventh he went and laid down under a tall tree in the forest. Through his knowledge of animal languages, he overheard a pair of eagles tell his mate the answer to Kabilphrom's question. When Kabilphrom appeared at the end of the day, Dharmapal was ready with the correct answer. The question was: in which part of the human body does "rasi" reside? Now this word cannot be satisfactorily translated into English or into any language. Nor is it originally a Thai word. The meaning ranges from "section", " blessing", " luster", "radiance", to "greatness". The correct answer expected by Kabilphrom resided in the face in the morning, and the chest in the middle of the day, and in the feet in the evening. Human beings washed and scented the respective parts of the body regularly during the respective parts of the day. Kabilphrom had no choice now but to allow his head to be severed from his body. He called his seven daughters together. He explained that he was such a powerful god that if his severed head fell on the land, a great fire would spread all over the earth. If thrown into the ocean, it would dry up. If thrown into the air, the heavens would be destroyed. A special receptacle must be made to receive his head. It must then be placed in a mountain cave high up in the abode of the gods. Every 365 days one of his daughters was to commemorate her father's honor by leading a great procession with his head on the receptacle across the sky, circling Mount Krailas, the dwelling place of the highest of the gods The term Soingkran used by astrologers means "passing". It is used for the passing of the sun from one house into the next. The thirteenth of April marks the passing of the sun from the 12th, the last back into its so-called "first rasi". We know that the sun is at its hottest and brightest during this month all over the southern parts of India and the countries of the Golden Region. Of course, for rice growers, harvest is usually in February and by March, all work for the year is over. May is the beginning of the working year, as the southwest monsoon starts. And ploughing sometimes is carried out the last week of April, as soon as the soil is softened by early rains. The middle of April is about the right time for festivals. Songkran and Easter are celebrated very closely one to the other. Songkran is reckoned by the solar , and Easter by the lunar calendar. Both originally may have marked the return of the sun to the northern hemisphere, and the timewhen life reawakens after winter in northern latitudes, and after the hot dry season in monsoon countries. Whatever its origin, Songkran is a happy time for people in Thailand. Along with the throwing of water, the playing of games, and cooking of seasonal foods, most Thai families invite Buddhist monks into their homes offering them the best of the dishes and sweets. Some Thai families keep small pieces of bones belonging to their parents or grandparents, which have been intentionally left unconsumed by the fire at the cremation. These they wash with scented water after the monks have recited some Buddhist scripture in the Pali language. Members of the families listen with not so much attention since they do not understand Pali. The kind act of offering food seems to make everyone happy, and that is the most important thing to the Thai people. Some Songkran celebrations are carried on for the better part of the week. Then people settle down to await the monsoon. They mend their farm implements and their houses to be ready for coming rains. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-09-2011, 01:53 PM	#2
97dYA9L3 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 428 Senior Member	It is so sad that at time of unity the country is currently so divided. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-09-2011, 08:07 PM	#3
Uojeyak Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 424 Senior Member	[I] Whatever its origin, Songkran is a happy time for people in Thailand. Along with the throwing of water, the playing of games, and cooking of seasonal foods, most Thai families invite Buddhist monks into their homes offering them the best of the dishes and sweets. Some Thai families keep small pieces of bones belonging to their parents or grandparents, which have been intentionally left unconsumed by the fire at the cremation. These they wash with scented water after the monks have recited some Buddhist scripture in the Pali language. Members of the families listen with not so much attention since they do not understand Pali. The kind act of offering food seems to make everyone happy, and that is the most important thing to the Thai people. Some Songkran celebrations are carried on for the better part of the week. Then people settle down to await the monsoon. They mend their farm implements and their houses to be ready for coming rains. Thanks for that Norb. There is a bit though in the last passage which isn't true (not nowadays anyways for sure!) Most families do not invite monks into their homes! In fact, monks aren't supposed to leave their temples during Songkran! So, families make merit by giving alms to the monks at the temple instead of the monks going on an alms round. Monks should never enter someone's house unless it is for a wedding, blessing house ceremony etc... The families don't understand Pali....... neither do most of the monks! Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing. Playing games at Songkran? besides chucking water, the only game i can think of Thais playing (especially the women) is Pok Daeng (card game played for money!) I've known of a few families who arrange a Bingo game for the kids, but certainly not a Thai tradition! Cooking seasonal food? Is there such a thing? Means fruit, right? Await the monsoon? Yeah.... but only the rural farmers. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-10-2011, 03:15 AM	#4
aideriimibion Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 432 Senior Member	Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing. I don't know about having them scented by monks for Songkran, but you can read about keeping of pieces of bone from the deceased in Khmer culture in this recent thread:- http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?p=170323 David Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-10-2011, 05:38 AM	#5
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing. Thanks for the clarifications. As I was saying I have no idea where this piece came from originally. But I did have an experience with the bones. During our time in the Peace Corps we were living with a Thai family in a village near Uthong. On Songkran after finishing lunch, Aon, the 18 year old daughter, the only one who spoke some English in the family, brought out a tall brass container and started polishing it. I had no idea what it was and asked her what was inside and if I could look. She unscrewed the top and I stuck my finger inside. When I pulled it out it had some grey powder on it. "What is this?" I asked still without a clue. "This is my father," she answered, "my family is going to go to the Wat today and a monk is going to bless this urn." I apologized profusely and she just said:"mai pben rai ka". Later I learned -- probably from our Thai trainers -- about the custom of leaving some bones and apparently some of the ashes for the family to place in a small container to keep in their homes. Perhaps this is a custom you primarily find in villages. Well, we have one here at our house with some of our son's ashes. Some of it we had blessed by a monk and sent it down the Ping river in Chiangmai during Yee Peng (Loy Krathong). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-10-2011, 07:29 AM	#6
Cnbaapuy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 488 Senior Member	Has anyone here heard of this keeping pieces of bones from deceased parents and grandparents and have them scented by monks for Songkran? I never heard or read about this before. Reads more of a Chinese thing. Many Thai families keep bones of their deceased parents, grandparents and ancestors in urns and shrine them in their houses’ worship room, my family has followed this tradition, the photo - some urns of my ancestors’ bones. During Songkran festival, monks and temple committee will set up the date for ÊÃ§¹éÓ¾ÃÐ - Srong Naam Phra of their temple. ÊÃ§¹éÓ¾ÃÐ - Srong Naam Phra is the ceremony of pouring water on Buddha images or/and monks. Every year my family brings the bone urns to our regular temple, there is a merit-making in the morning, we prepare food, flowers, candle, incense, Thai perfume (¹éÓÍºä·Â – naam op Thai) for the ceremony of morning chanting. All urns are gathered in front of Buddha statues, surrounded with white thread or sai sin (ÊÒÂÊÔ¨¹ì) which links to Buddha statues and the monks while they are chanting. After chanting the abbot sprinkles holy water (¹éÓÁ¹µÃì – naam mon) to these urns and merit makers. Normally ‘Srong Naam Phra’ is held in early afternoon, started with monk chant, pouring water for merit-making to the deceased, monk blessing, the monks srong nam (pour water) on Buddha statues, then people srong naam (pour water) on Buddha statues, monks and novices (photo from oknation.net). The water used in this ceremony will be added with Thai perfume, rose petals or/and jasmine. After people finish ‘srong naam phra’, some temples may have Ã´¹éÓ¼ÙéãËè (rod naam phu yai) – to pour water on the hands of elder, respectable persons in order to pay respect and get blessed. In the north, Ã´¹éÓ¼ÙéãË*è (rod naam phu yai) is called Ã´¹éÓ´ÓËÑÇ (rod naam dum hua). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-09-2012, 10:13 AM	#7
triardwonvada Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	Thanks for your post. These urns look exactly like the one I was talking about. Are the red ones you commonly see in stores just a cheaper version used for the same purpose? Part of our training in Uthong was a blessing ceremony. Since I was one of the older ones in our group I was sitting down with about three or four others and the rest of the group came around to do the blessing. A few days later back in the village it was I who was doing the blessing of the elders in our host family. There wasn't a lot of water splashing going on in the village. Across from the wat a bunch of kids had blocked the street asking for toll, a donation for the wat. We put some money in the bucket and got splashed anyway which felt really good in the 100 F April heat. We only experienced the "full impact" of Songkran in Chiangmai a year later. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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