[fameintatenly]

Oops, sorry.

I just realized I was responding to Halloween in Thailand. Oh well, it's not the first time for me to be off topic!

I just wanted everyone to know we're not all clogging the aisles of Wal Mart clammoring at plastic costumes over on this side of the pond.

[jessyhalm]

I see modern Halloween as just a part of the slow creep of an all enveloping American culture here

That's it exactly.

It has become a way for shops to make a quick fortune!

It used to be quite a good thing when we were kids. Costumes were made from old rags, cardboard and make up.

Now people spend anywhere around £20 for costumes.

Not to deflect from kids out enjoying themselves, I think that is what is most important, but the commercialism that surrounds it for at least two weeks previous makes me sick.

Someone had posted earlier (it has since been removed?) that we may aswell get rid of Christmas, Easter and love?? too.

I don't belive that, but we shouldn't be subjected to all this advertising nonsense strictly aimed at children.

There are Christmas lights up in Edinburgh already. Unbelievable

P.S. I just saw that there was another thread strating with the post I thought had been removed.

[fameintatenly]

That's not entirely true Khun Don.

Halloween, or Samhain has been celebrated in Scotland since the first Celtic tribes from northern Europe settled here.

In Gàidhlig the month of November is called An t-Samhain, the summer's end.

It was the mark of the New Year in the Celtic calendar when the dark takes over from the light. At this time it was thought that the link between the underworld and the overworld was at its strongest, meaning that ancestral spirits, good and bad, could pass through to the physical world.

To avoid being approached by a bad spirit, people would 'guise' themselves in the belief that only their true ancestors would be able to find them.

It also has links to the last harvest, hence the gathering and offering of nuts and fruit.

This has always been celebrated here, unfortunately the pumpkin, witches and skeletons sold in every shop have taken over this festival and the real meaning behind it is lost.

A few nights ago The History Channel had a show about the history of Halloween. I came in late and just caught the tail end. I'm hoping it will be on again today or tomorrow.

[Acrogeokickic]

As a young kid, growing up in the NE of England we used to go out "trick or treating". But when I was about 10, we moved down south, and nobody did it down there. I'd be interested to know whether it's an American custom transferred, or an old English custom that has taken on a new life.


Edit: Maybe Khun Don has already answered this.

[phsyalcvqh]

But further south, celebration of the old Celtic festival of Samhain, always a rural festival, had been falling into decline since the English Civil War-when it was banned at the order of the same Puritan government that also banned Yule/Christmas - and then went into further into decline in the 19th century with the advent and acceleration of the industrial revolution and urban drift-and again the influence of the Protestant Church.

Added-Even today the Catholic Church does not care for Halloween

[pprropeciaaa]

I absolutely see the point about vandalism.
I grew up without Halloween. in my culture it is the day of the dead, the most solemn and saddest day in the calendar.
but if you have kids - or kids that are not your own around you - it adds so much to their lives to come up with some magic, no matter what the pretext, no matter if Halloween has nothing to do with Thailand and Thai culture. at least we have the carneval back home - here in Thailand and a Thai school, I think this is the only opportunity we can find for a costume party. we also need to be very careful to remain secular, that is such a big challenge. actually, I could point at any day in the calendar and come up with a costume party theme, but it is a little easier now that there is a corner for masks and stuff at Tesco / BigC / Carrefour and kids see it outside school as well. maybe I am part of the process of destroying Thai culture, that could be an argument, and it would be interesting to explore that issue.
we have loy krathong, Lanna dancing and handicrafts all next week, though, and my Thai colleague always helps to explain what things mean.
I have pumpkin (or, rather, thai melon!) lanterns outside, even though Halloween is something I only learnt about from a book, and nobody is coming trick or treating, but it is fun and I like them.

Good points Betti - in my neighborhood it's all about the kids - I've never had any vandalism - I always have lots of candy and treats to give out - many kids come by and I would hate to disappoint them. I remember how I always looked forward to trick or treat when I was little too.

[Acrogeokickic]

PS, Betti:
"Thai" culture is stuffed down the kids' throats ad nauseam. Having fun on Halloween isn't going to have any influence whatsoever on Thai kids, especially if explained a little bit. It actually provides a link good way to look at links between Thai and western traditions.

[chuecaloversvvp]

sorry - I cut the post because a couple of months ago I hijacked one of Grace's threads with a general discussion, and it had to be removed. now I wanted to prevent that.

all Halloween stories and experiences and opinions are welcome, not just Thailand

pumpkin1.jpg pumpkin2.jpg

I've just come back from shopping and lit my lanterns. one is a melon that I carved. it actually looks like the pumpkins in US cartoons and movies. the other is a pumpkin we got from a prathom teacher. these are so expensive and hard and difficult to cut so I prefer the melons. the birds and the snails seem to love both (remind me next time I have creepy crawlies in my house and I wonder why!!) there were snails inside the pumpkin so I put the candle in front.

as for "day of the devil": in the Catholic calendar, this is "all hallow's eve" or all saints day, dedicated to all those saints who don't have a day of their own in the Catholic calendar. so, quite the opposite..... I mentioned earlier that this is a sad and solemn time in my culture, just a little mistake crept in there: the day of the dead is actually tomorrow, not today.

[jessyhalm]

Up to about 30 years ago, Halloween was hardly acknowledged in the UK.

That's not entirely true Khun Don.

Halloween, or Samhain has been celebrated in Scotland since the first Celtic tribes from northern Europe settled here.

In Gàidhlig the month of November is called An t-Samhain, the summer's end.

It was the mark of the New Year in the Celtic calendar when the dark takes over from the light. At this time it was thought that the link between the underworld and the overworld was at its strongest, meaning that ancestral spirits, good and bad, could pass through to the physical world.

To avoid being approached by a bad spirit, people would 'guise' themselves in the belief that only their true ancestors would be able to find them.

It also has links to the last harvest, hence the gathering and offering of nuts and fruit.

This has always been celebrated here, unfortunately the pumpkin, witches and skeletons sold in every shop have taken over this festival and the real meaning behind it is lost.

[chuecaloversvvp]

I absolutely see the point about vandalism.
I grew up without Halloween. in my culture it is the day of the dead, the most solemn and saddest day in the calendar.
but if you have kids - or kids that are not your own around you - it adds so much to their lives to come up with some magic, no matter what the pretext, no matter if Halloween has nothing to do with Thailand and Thai culture. at least we have the carneval back home - here in Thailand and a Thai school, I think this is the only opportunity we can find for a costume party. we also need to be very careful to remain secular, that is such a big challenge. actually, I could point at any day in the calendar and come up with a costume party theme, but it is a little easier now that there is a corner for masks and stuff at Tesco / BigC / Carrefour and kids see it outside school as well. maybe I am part of the process of destroying Thai culture, that could be an argument, and it would be interesting to explore that issue.
we have loy krathong, Lanna dancing and handicrafts all next week, though, and my Thai colleague always helps to explain what things mean.
I have pumpkin (or, rather, thai melon!) lanterns outside, even though Halloween is something I only learnt about from a book, and nobody is coming trick or treating, but it is fun and I like them.

[phsyalcvqh]

Here there is no organised Halloween-beyond the shops!
There used to be low key celebrations in the country here, carved pumpkins with maybe a few games for children-bobbing for apples etc but that was it-there was no trick or treating -and the Church even disapproved of this small recognition of a pagan festival in some parts of the country!!
Some children don't even know what Halloween is all about!! I have just returned in the last hour from town- sending Gor a get well card-NOTHING else would get me into town on any Saturday!! (Horrible! )
When I returned, there was group of children on the bus- 7-11 age range I would estimate- in Halloween costumes etc. One elderly passenger asked them if they knew what Halloween was about. Answers? "Ghosts" and "Harry Potter"!

I see modern Halloween as just a part of the slow creep of an all enveloping American culture here -there is nothing wrong with American culture so long as it is confined, in general, to where it should be -the USA- as like those other US imports here, the signal crayfish and grey squirrel, it has driven what was left of the traditionally native to the brink of extinction.

[OGOGOogoloshennya]

The other problem in the UK is that people seem unable to keep these events to the proper day. I went is to town last evening to get some groceries and a takeaway and it looked like a giant omlette with drunken teenagers causing a nuisance. Luckily I live in a village with very few children so I don't see trick or treat.

And don't get me on to Bonfire Night, it's not until next Thursday but we've already been plagued by fireworks for the last two weeks and it will go on at least a week beyond next Thursday. I used to have a friend whom lived in Toxteth (the 'rough' area of Liverpool) and at this time of year she had to nail her letterbox closed.

David