[shanice]

Mai phen rai...

[jessyhalm]

And sorry for being verbose in my desperate attempt to explain a nebulous point.

Great sentence Marie.

Not that I am agreeing that you were being verbose, I just like the use of the words.

[VipInoLo]

Paul, if you send me a bank account number, I will send you money to buy a new record. this one is broken.

I apologize betti, The record just got replaced by a CD and I accidentally bumped the repeat button.

[VipInoLo]

Well I would have asked the girls, who payed for there last dinner out, if they said it was a man, well I would have said well it's the girls turn to pay.

[chuecaloversvvp]

Paul, if you send me a bank account number, I will send you money to buy a new record. this one is broken.

[mosypeSom]

Paul, if you send me a bank account number, I will send you money to buy a new record. this one is broken.

Amen to that.

[desmond001]

I don't think you lose your face. For one thing, you are not thai but they are. For another thing, it's not a big deal.

[Bejemoelemymn]

... I don't ever "lose face", I still just think it's an immature way of handling embarrassments or one's own shortcomings.

Then, why the question?

[OGOGOogoloshennya]

Do *you* think you lost face or not.

David

[TOD4wDTQ]

Well Face is largely based on how other perceive your actions or your status, I mean if you break all taboos in your home behind locked doors nobody will ever know

Your own feelings I guess are mostly how you think others will see you, like dropping your pants by accident alone in your home seems to be better then doing it on national TV

[Eagevawax]

Do *you* think you lost face or not.

David

No I don't. For one thing I was happy to get a free meal and second I was very happy to see that it isn't always the case that the farang has to pay.

Also, I don't ever "lose face", I still just think it's an immature way of handling embarrassments or one's own shortcomings.

[brraverishhh]

u did well all and do not worry, I don t see you lose any face!

ur friend's bf should pay as well . Otherwise he may lose his face and selfesteem.

[Wxrxnhar]

I think the answer to this one is another invitation to dinner-politely making it very clear at the time of asking that it is on condition that you pay as they paid last time.

[Eagevawax]

The other night my girlfriend (not Thai) and I met a female Thai friend of mine and her boyfriend (also Thai). It was the first time I had met her bf, and the first time for my friend to meet my gf.

Everyone was in their 20's except me, (I am 37). My GF and I live in Japan and my friend and her BF live in Thailand. We all have jobs, my friend's boyfriend is a sound engineer, but it's probably a safe guess to imagine that my income was the highest of all of us.

We went out to dinner and I had every intention of paying for everybody for a number of reasons, one of them being that I had thought it would be expected that I would pay as I am 1. the oldest, and 2. the highest paid, and 3 I invited them out.

So anyway at the end of the night my friend's boyfriend says that he will get the bill and pays with his credit card. I said that I was going to pay and had my wallet ready to do so, but they both said that I should just get it next time I visit Thailand.

It was a nice gesture and I appreciate it, but was it the right thing to allow him to pay? Should I have insisted more forcefully? Did I "lose face" for allowing him to pay? Or did my acquiescing allow him to gain face in front of his girlfriend?

Actually this was the first time I had been back to Thailand in 2 and a half years since I got divorced and I was so used to paying for everybody (ie, exwife and cousins and her friends etc) that it never occured to me that one day I would have someone pay for my dinner in Thailand one day.

Or maybe I'm just over-analysing?

[casinobonyanes]

I don't think it's a big deal, but I think it does speak very highly of your Thai friends that he would automatically foot the bill regardless (or any person from any country that would be generous enough to foot the bill regardless of situation, location, or who invited who).. You did offer and were going to pay, so being more 'forceful' wouldn't have done much I think.

Just pay next time you see them.

[enlinnyGoob]

So you just answered the question yourself; if you feel comfortable with the situation it was O.K.

Because you are the one who knows the people and you had the feeling being in this situation.

[dodsCooggipsehome]

hehe I think you are a little bit over-analyzing..that was funny tho..Well you are the guest , its ok to let them pay..

[jessyhalm]

I think you did the right thing.

IMO age and income has nothing to do with it, although I would tend to agree that if I invite someone out for a meal then I would like to pay the bill.

As it was in Thailand, perhaps the Thai man seen you as a guest to his country and did the courteous thing by paying and as you said, it has allowed him to gain face in front of his girlfriend.

I have a friend in Krabi that always insisted on paying for meals anytime we met. I know he isn't on high income, but he is very proud man. Anytime I go there now I buy food and a bottle of whisky and bring it to his home. This avoids any sense of losing face, and if we do go out we take turn in paying the bills.

Frankly, any company you keep that always expects you to pay aren't worth being around. Even my friends that are on low income always return the gesture. Any genuine, decent person would invite you for a meal and they would pay for it. It may not be in a fancy restaurant, but the food will be just as good and it is often more than half the price of restaurants and cafes that ply for tourist trade.

P.S. Sorry Jerome. I just read this back and it sounds like the last paragraph is aimed at you. I meant you for anyone that may be reading this and is not familiar with this type of situation.

[BalaGire]

Yes, as I was posting that last one I was thinking the same thing too.

I didn't feel embarrassed too much. I guess I was asking weather or not I had "lost face" in the eyes of my friends.

And now that I have put it that way, I suspect that the whole "face" thing may have a little a little less to do with your own feelings and more to do with how your friends/acquaintances see you/your actions? I don't know, I'm not expressing myself very clearly here.

Jerome,

My guess is, this is about our own self-image, or how we want to be seen by others, and how others see us, as indicated by the way they treat us or what they tell us.

If the the amount of respect we think we deserve is significantly less than what is accorded to us by others, it could be said that we lose face in the transaction. Meaning, there's a disappointment on our part to discover that we are valued less than we want others value us.

I think "embarrassment" here takes place when we realize that there exists that discrepancy or shortfall, which could erode our self-respect or the value we assign to our self.

In that sense, in my opinion, losing face has got more to do with our own feelings and actions related to our self-image--and how we want our friends/ acquaintances, and other significant others, for that matter, to affirm that. When they negate it in a significant way, we lose face.

But then I am only guessing. LOL And sorry for being verbose in my desperate attempt to explain a nebulous point.

[Eagevawax]

Then, why the question?

Yes, as I was posting that last one I was thinking the same thing too.

I didn't feel embarrassed too much. I guess I was asking weather or not I had "lost face" in the eyes of my friends.

And now that I have put it that way, I suspect that the whole "face" thing may have a little a little less to do with your own feelings and more to do with how your friends/acquaintances see you/your actions? I don't know, I'm not expressing myself very clearly here.