[themsrsdude]

Younger pays respect to older people. So far so good.

But how is, typically, a situation dealt with when the boss is younger then his subordinates. Or even much younger.

How do you wai?

[DexOnenlyCymn]

I am not a Thai so I do not Wai anyone,
If someone Wai's me then I nod my head and smile and if they reach out I will shake their hand.
Nothing looks more stupid than a farang running loose waiing everything from a Tuk Tuk to a soi dog and I think it looks stupid for a farang to be doing even under the proper times.
Sometimes makes you wonder why they were let out of the institution to come here in the first place.
If you want to show respect then hold a door for someone or show some consideration and do not knock them out of your way immediately after you finish the Wai.

[Turbo-ip]

I had a book, Do's and Dont's in Thailand and it kind of touched on this, but the book didn't give a clear cut answer as to who wais who in such a situation as young boss, older subordinate.

As a side note, book did say that old people do not wai young kids, and that it is a source of bemusement when foreigners wai young Thai kids. It so happened that yesterday I was at the mall, and walking by the small KFC outlet by the food court. There were three foreigners, and this one older guy was making a wai and repeatedly saying real loud so everyone around could hear, 'sawadee krap,' over and over to this little boy who was holding his dad's hand.

[Emunsesoxmete]

with all due respect, I work at a school, and adults DO wai young kids in order to prompt or teach them to wai. even up to the age of 5. children learn by copying so they get full wais from Thai staff at my school so that they can learn exactly how to hold their hands and how to bow - especially the little ones. and that's what I see when parents bring younger siblings along and ask them to wai other parents, the adults cooperate as well, they wai first and greet the child enthusiastically if the child is reluctant, etc. sometimes they go on and on with 'sawatdii krap' if the child is really reluctant but the parent really wants him/her to wai.

our Thai boss is a very proper lady, with younger staff, she waits for us to wai first, but with teachers of the same age as her or older, they usually wai at the same time and bow to the same level, they don't wait for the other to wai first.

FIP, I think if you don't wai back (apart from service staff and other obvious cases), I think it is the equivalent of not accepting someone's hand for a handshake. nodding is an appropriate reply only if you are driving or your hands are full or something like that. there are many things that are worth resisting and making your point clear, but why upset people about something simple like this? I don't get it,

[DexOnenlyCymn]

If someone is upset because a farang does not wai then I guess they are damn easily upset.
I have had many Thai reach out for a handshake and it has been returned, even Thai women so it is an accepted practice even here, but maybe not in kindergarten.
When I would go to school daily to pick up my 5 year old daughter she would always run up to me and grab my hand and hold on to me until we were getting in our car, and I prefer the contact to a wai, which means nothing but is done for show.
I also know some people that would rather their child run up to them to be picked up in greeting instead of stand there and wai like a servant, Wai does not show respect as far as I am concerned, but how you treat people does, Thai wai like hell and show very little respect to anyone.

[Emunsesoxmete]

I guess wai and respect / picking up / holding hands etc are not mutually exclusive.
btw these kids don't wai their own parents, I agree that would be too formal. some schools insist on making kids wai their parents, we don't. wai is for teachers and other parents, more formal relationships.

[vansVoish]

our Thai boss is a very proper lady, with younger staff, she waits for us to wai first, but with teachers of the same age as her or older, they usually wai at the same time and bow to the same level, they don't wait for the other to wai first.

We have a similar situation at my school. A few of our teachers actually taught our principal. So, there is that situation where each person tries to wai each other first in order to show the most respect.

I don't wai any of my students back - just a smile and nod. However, I do wai back to any of my ex-students who come to visit or any of my present students that I might meet outside with their parents. In the Kindergarten, the teachers often wai in the classroom in order to teach the children good habits.

[vansVoish]

btw these kids don't wai their own parents, I agree that would be too formal. some schools insist on making kids wai their parents, we don't. wai is for teachers and other parents, more formal relationships.

I see some kids wai their parents after they drop them off at school. Nong Grace does the same when she says goodbye to them in the morning and again when she goes back home. But not all children are like this. Depends a lot on their parents.

[Emunsesoxmete]

> I don't wai any of my students back - just a smile and nod.

your kids are older I do the same on the corridor if prathom/mattayom students occasionally wai me.

[themsrsdude]

Thanks for you answers,

although, as Betti, says school might be a special environment as you want to teach the students how to interact properly.

I was wondering more in general how Thais do this in "normal life"

For example: When the old cleaning lady meets the younger CEO I assume she wais first, even if she is older?

[InsManKV]

On many occasions I have seen old villagers in Isaan wai Government officials who were much younger. It seems clear that "suungness" has priority over age in wai-ing conventions.

[adverwork]

For a farang who is it polite to wai to? As an example your looking at a map in the street and an elderly person offers their assistance with directions, then wais you. Do you wai back? The same scenario with a much younger person, do you wai back?

[pharmablogger]

Since I first visited the wife's village (getting on for 20 years ago), she made sure that I waied her older family members, village elders etc. Nowadays I don't need telling but the first couple of days we're there I just wai pretty much every older person who stops by, as there are so many relatives and friends that I can't always remember who's who. There are also people that she doesn't wai but if I follow her lead, she'll give me a dig or a nod to let me know I should. I think I wai a lot more people than she does. There are also those who are not relatives or respected family friends but who I have got to know over the years. In village society it leaves a good impression and, so I'm informed, you are considered more respectful than farangs who never wai their in-laws, village elders etc.

As I'm starting to get on a bit now, there are also younger people who now wai me, usually those that know me and the family quite well. Some of my younger brothers and sisters-in-law wai me, some don't - all of their spouses do.

Back in Bangkok and at work, I very rarely wai. Working in an environment where people are used to farangs, it seems very unnatural to wai - and actually makes me feel a bit uncomfortable if colleagues do so, as I'm not really expecting it and get caught in two minds about whether to return it. A few of my younger colleagues call me 'P', which I think is a fine way to show respect.
Students wai but most Thai teachers just return that with a nod so that's what I do. If parents come to see me they'll often wai and in that case I'll return it.

Although some people have mentioned shaking hands being quite common, I find the only Thais who feel really comfortable with this are those who have spent time abroad or worked closely with farangs.

I never encouraged my daughter to wai me but sometimes when she was much younger the teachers at school would get her to do it when I dropped her off or picked her up. My wife has always got her to wai when giving her money to take to school and I fully support this - I wouldn't let her get away without saying 'thank you'.

Basically I find it very natural to give and receive wais in my social and family life but it's much more uncomfortable and unnatural in my working life. It's a complicated old world, isn't it?

[PebydataFeents]

On many occasions I have seen old villagers in Isaan wai Government officials who were much younger. It seems clear that "suungness" has priority over age in wai-ing conventions.

That's been my experience too.

The book "Thais Say It Best When They Say Nothing At All" deals with waiing conventions in quite a bit of detail. It's a pretty good book IMHO.

I don't think it's a matter of choosing between Thai and Western conventions. When meeting people in Thailand, I generally wai first or wait on the basis of age (and ignore the other status stuff), then we shake hands, then we often squeeze each other's arms.

So we go through a formal and hierarchical Thai gesture, a formal and egalitarian Western gesture and an informal and egalitarian Thai gesture all in the space of 20 seconds.

[RagonaCon]

btw, a friend working in a corporate environment (lots of farangs but mostly Thai) in Bangkok said that in two years, he didn't see a wai around him. he had to learn how to do it when he went to see his girlfriend's parents upcountry.

In a MNC, most Thai will be hand shaking with the farangs instead of "wai" especially the younger generations. Thai and Thai still wai each other.

[adverwork]

Roamin, I think it can't be very wrong if you wai back to an adult in any situation. especially if the person helped you. (the exception will be cashiers and waiters and tellers and other service staff.)

(don't expect any help with maps though, most people here never see one. they don't seem to have geography lessons at school either.)

Thanks for that, and yes I know all about directions, or is it misdirections, lol.

[Aswdwdfg]

I worked in BKK corporate offices a long time ago....and still visit when in town, and I certainly saw wai-ing in the morning and with any visitor.

[Emunsesoxmete]

Roamin, I think it can't be very wrong if you wai back to an adult in any situation. especially if the person helped you. (the exception will be cashiers and waiters and tellers and other service staff.)

(don't expect any help with maps though, most people here never see one. they don't seem to have geography lessons at school either.)

[Aswdwdfg]

then we often squeeze each other's arms. Men do that, too? I didn't realize that... that's my favorite part! It's mostly for more intimate people I meet...relatives and the what not.

I'm working my way through a ».ñ level book now on culture, religion, and customs and there are several chapters to teach the kids on how to wai. They certainly rely on the formal structure -- and wai-ing upon meeting the parents is a must.
When I went to school in Thailand we formed a line to wai a representative of the teachers as we came and as we left. And I wai-ed my folks before I left and immediately upon my return.

I don't see it as a superficial contradiction. In a culture that is sometimes less visually affectionate, I find it to be a meaningful gesture.

....a fun thread might be on "wai-ing mistakes"...we've all made them. At the top of my list...

I arrived in the country and went to my sister's house. Her friends were all there and I wai-ed them per appropriateness. One of her friends was in the bathroom. I missed the friend and was excited to see her...and so for some reason, I decided to jump up and wai her as she came out .... as she came out... of the shower, dripping with water clutching quite a small towel. Ooops! Luckily she laughed and replied, "Those darned farangs sure love to wai!"

I also have my first ever wai captured on film. Oh that was ugly!

[Emunsesoxmete]

I guess it is up to parents to make their "rules" on greeting. if they want to wai, and teach the kids to wai, it's their business. if they go for a hug, or whatever else, it's their business too. if they don't speak, that's none of my business too - many kids are really sleepy in the mornings, they don't speak, they don't even want to be looked at. I really didn't like it when I saw teachers trying to force (!) the students / small kids to greet their parents with a wai. (not just ask or suggest but force.) (another school not mine.) if the parent wants or needs or expects a wai, and I've seen plenty of these, they should teach the kid themselves. teachers should teach them how to greet teachers and strangers and other parents, how to behave in a community etc.

btw, a friend working in a corporate environment (lots of farangs but mostly Thai) in Bangkok said that in two years, he didn't see a wai around him. he had to learn how to do it when he went to see his girlfriend's parents upcountry.