[textarchive]

Interesting to note that blouses with spaghetti straps are still considered by many to be inappropriate dress for women even today.

[AntonioMQ]

Thanks Anatta! But what about my question regarding ÊÃÇÁ?

ÊÃÇÁ is a variation of ÊÇÁ from Khmer.

I'd also like to know what a àÊ×éͪÑé¹ã¹µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ is.

DogoDon

àÊ×éͪÑé¹ã¹µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ you can divide it into àÊÕéͪÑé¹ã¹ and µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ. Does that help you understand it better? I think now you do.

[markshome23]

sorry I am not asking about the language - I would be rather interested, if anyone can help me out on this, how people reacted to this change. what were the sanctions for not dressing properly? or did people just do it because the king said so? how long did it take?

[AntonioMQ]

Betti, I'll try to answer you as best I can. Field Marshall Piiboon Songkhram's early days of being the Prime Minister of Thailand is a tad before my time but I remember my family talked about the changes that were mandated from the government. Their reaction was that they wanted to comply because it was a nationalistic and patriotic thing to do and of course you want to be civilized. I don't think there's any harsh punishment for not dressing properly, at least in the countryside as I remember old ladies were still wearing a top undergarment (àÊ×éͪÑé¹ã¹µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ)in the house. Of course they did not wear them outside the house, going to the market for example would be a no no. In the capital of Bangkok there might be harsher punishment than just being branded as a non civilized person or not patriotic. I remember also my aunt who had a fabric shop in town had to change the spelling of her shop sign to the more 'modern' spelling. I wish I could remember what letters had to be changed because I remember seeing the old sign that was taken down tucked away in a store room. Not much of an answer, I am afraid.

[Vobomei]

Thanks Anatta! But what about my question regarding ÊÃÇÁ?

I'd also like to know what a àÊ×éͪÑé¹ã¹µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ is.

DogoDon

[majestictwelve]

Below is an excerpt from Thailand's Political History by B.J. Terwiel.

"Up till 1913 most Siamese were known only by their personal name, often a monosyllabic 'nickname', but mostly among the prosperous, a pleasant-sounding polysyllabic 'real name'. Both 'nickname' and 'real name' referred to the individual and it was impossible to decide from these names who was related to whom. Family names had long been in use, but generally only by the phudi, people of rank and refinement. There were signs that the number of people adopting surnames had been steadily increasing, but they remained limited to those who had distinguished themselves somehow and had achieved a measure of wealth and influence. In the 1913 decree, it was stipulated that all heads of families were given six months from 1 July in which to choose and register their surnames. The king, who was of no mean literary talent, devised lists of well-sounding names from which the populace might choose."

[FredderiK]

Dear DogoDon ,


Just for left some clearify for you here ( As I'm about to go outside in soon at this moment)


So! here goes;

- wear a cap or âÁ¡ËÑÇ (not sure about this!)

This phrass is "⾡ËÑÇ" not " âÁ¡ËÑÇ "

⾡ = wrap a piece of cloth aro

⾡ËÑÇ = [ V ] wrap ; put on a turban ; wrap a piece of cloth around one's
head ; cover the head with a cloth



- carry things on your head (I don't understand ·Ø¹ here)

it's " ·Ù¹ " not " ·Ø¹ "

·Ù¹ËÑÇ = [ V ] carry over the head ; uplift

[AntonioMQ]

oh yes, very much of an answer! thank you.
(a fabric shop must have been great business those days then!)

You are welcome, Betti.
Yes the fabric shop was good for her in those days. My aunt had many stories to tell. She had now been diseased for many years but she kept the shop running way into her 70's.

[buchmausar]

Is this about the time surnames were introduced?

[Vobomei]

Fascinating! Thanks Richard.

If I may attempt a rough translation:

Those who dress like this are not civilized Thais:

Don't

- wear sarongs
- expose your upper body
- shave your head
- wear a cap or âÁ¡ËÑÇ (not sure about this!)
- wear a bandeau (or like a bikini) top (¼éÒᶺ¤Ò´Í¡)
- wear a one-piece undershirt (? I'm not sure about this)
- carry things on your head (I don't understand ·Ø¹ here)


Civilized Thais dress like this:

You should

- dress in western style or wear Thai style short pants
- (illegible part)
- keep long hair that is worn down clean and neat (?)
- wear a pha sin (pha thung) (i.e., a sarong-like lower-body garment worn by women)

A couple of interesting points in spelling here:

Am I wrong in thinking that the word ÊÇÁ (to wear) used to be spelled ÊÃÇÁ ? It appears that way, from this article. Was it also pronounced differently?

Also, it appears that ¼éÒ«Ôè¹ used to be spelled (or maybe still can be spelled) ¼éÒÊÔé¹. Well, I find it interesting, at least!


I'd appreciate it if someone could correct my mistakes and fill in what I missed. Thanks!

DogoDon

[markshome23]

oh yes, very much of an answer! thank you.
(a fabric shop must have been great business those days then!)

[AntonioMQ]

Umm, not really! I understand that àÊÕéͪÑé¹ã¹ is an undergarment, but I don't understand exactly what they are suggesting should not be worn. Is it a particular type of undergarment they are talking about, or are they saying that you should not wear only one undergarment? That is, are they saying that you should wear both underpants and an undershirt (or bra, for a lady)?

DogoDon

In those day there were no air conditioning or electric fan in houses, so ladies wore just undergarment walking around. Men did not wear any undershirt. What they were saying is that you should not wear only undergarment out in public. Ladies undergarment in those days were not bras. They were homemade loose fitting with spagghetti straps and gather around the chest area. I don't know whether this style of lady undergarment is what was worn through out the country or just in the countryside but this is what my mother wore when she was at home and not dressed up for any occasion. It is a variation of àÊ×éͤ͡ÃÐàªéÒ. I think if you google the term you can see the sample of what they look like.

[Baromaro]

No doubt the King himself sat an example.

This photo was taken in Sweden.

[Vobomei]

àÊ×éͪÑé¹ã¹µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ you can divide it into àÊÕéͪÑé¹ã¹ and µÑÇà´ÕÂÇ. Does that help you understand it better? I think now you do.

Umm, not really! I understand that àÊÕéͪÑé¹ã¹ is an undergarment, but I don't understand exactly what they are suggesting should not be worn. Is it a particular type of undergarment they are talking about, or are they saying that you should not wear only one undergarment? That is, are they saying that you should wear both underpants and an undershirt (or bra, for a lady)?

DogoDon

[pfcwlkxav]

It is also interesting to note that the name reverted to Siam following the Second World War, when Pibulsonggram was temporarily out of power. But once he was back, the change to Thailand took place again in 1949.

[rujeltaoser]

A picture showing Thais how to dress properly

The process of "Nation Building" began under King Rama V (reign 1868-1910) and gained momentum under King Rama VI (reign 1910-25). Nationalism reached its apex under Field Marshal Pibulsonggram (P.M. 1938-44). His National Socialist regime produced a State Edict in 1939, proclaiming that the country was henceforth to be called "Thailand" in accordance with its racial pure "Thai" inhabitants who were genetically superior to other "lesser breeds". Under this Edict, those who conformed to the ideals of the dictatorship were pronounced "racially pure Thais". Those who resisted and attempted to preserve their cultural identity became, at best, second class citizens.

Continued at thai-blogs.com >>>

This picture comes from a new exhibition at the Museum of Siam in Bangkok.

[rujeltaoser]

Yes it says on the left that you mustn't do this and if you do then you are not Thai.

[Baromaro]

Well it looks like Thai's were not all that conservative about exposing there bodies in the old day's, Covering up must be a more modern phenomena, but now with the bikini, there starting to revert back to there old fashioned roots.

Was actually about to ask that.

Is the picture to the left the old "no no" and the picture to the right the new way u were supposed to dress?

[KojlinMakolvin]

Well it looks like Thai's were not all that conservative about exposing there bodies in the old day's, Covering up must be a more modern phenomena, but now with the bikini, there starting to revert back to there old fashioned roots.