[Redys]

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[Peretool]

Visitor, I find this thread very informative. It gives me a lot of insights about a topic I was almost totally ignorant about.

[ephennaCypota]

In Thailand ladyboys (or katoeys- but I think this term is considered offensive- can sombody verify this please) are for the most part accepted as normal members of society. Since they are considered to have been born into the wrong body, I don't think it is considered "crossdressing" as such.
While there are a number of ladyboys working in the sex industry, there are also a great many of them working in normal jobs and studying as university students. One can see many ladyboys working at the cosmetics counter at many department stores- Emporium for sure.
Perhaps the reason that Maipenrai99 didn't see and ladyboys in offices in Thailand is because the ones who are working in "normal" jobs look and dress like any other girl, in a lot of cases they don't "stick out". Actually some of them do stick out because they can actualy be more beautiful than girls who were born girls. I mean, who goes to the doctor and orders an average or below average face? Of course they are gonna make themselves as beautiful as the doctor can make them.

[kylsq0Ln]

I know two transsexuals personally. One had her operation in Bangkok a couple of years ago and occasionally comes to our local temple because the people there are generally quite accepting of her just being a woman and also because she's thinking of retiring to Thailand.

Noone goes to all that trouble and expense for fun. They feel very strongly that this is the only way to feel comfortable with themselves. I can't really undertand why they feel that way, but I respect their decision.

[Soassesaisp]

Even though ladyboys, in comparison to most countries, are very much accepted within Thai society - you won't see one dressed up as a woman working at the police station, Bangkok Bank or Train Station. There is a level to such acceptance.

Most ladyboys are subject to working 'female dominated jobs'. Yes, a ladyboy dressed like a ladyboy may be employed at companies but the kind of positions they get are in the cosmetics, slimming or whiting lotions departments. As Jerome pointed out before, most Thais see Ladyboys as better looking than their female counterparts.

There are a lot of ladyboys working in the TV/Film/Fashion/Modelling/Beauty industries, often employed as designers, hair-stylists, make-up artists etc...

In fact, Thailand's most famous beautician, hairdresser and make-up artist are from the top of my head - ladyboys.

There are a lot of semi-ladyboys working male-dominated jobs in companies etc.... but business etiquette in Thailadn doesn't allow them to come to the company dressed as one. That is something they do in the evenings/weekends.

The word 'Katoey' can be used condescendingly, so the more polite Thai is 'Sao Praphet Song'. The English term 'Ladyboy' is closer in translation to the politer form as above. Thai ladyboys do not generally see the English word 'Ladyboy' as offensive but perhaps some foreigners will, as the term isn't widely used in the west.

[sessoorale]

I lived in Bangkok for the first 13 years of my life. (Will have been in the US for 30 years this fall) Having known since birth that I was born a gay man, I never like being called katoey.

Gay is Gay.
Katoey is Katoey.
Its different.
Gay is the loving between the same gender. Man love man, woman love woman, etc.
Katoey aka ladyboy is man who feels he's actually a woman and behave like a woman and eventually undergoes operations to become a woman... some don't take the operations (financial difficulties), but just take the female hormones and grow lumps on their chest.
A cross dresser is a man who dress up to become a woman and might not have undergone any sex change operations.

"Toms" or aka "BUTCH" are woman who feels they're man but they don't undergo sex-change operations... normally they jus wrap up their boobs and dress themselves in men clothings... thought i've heard Thai call all lesbians "Tom" too.....

I don't think "Queen" is a common word among Thai?

Oh, "Bi" is a common word too which means "bi-sexual"....

[DownloadMan]

Been a lot of line crossing going on here,, maybe because of wearing someone else cloths??

5555

[Redys]

Good day!

According to some of my friends, Thailand has a lot of transexuals (I'm saying it in a nice way. Being a transexual myself, I would like to ask if transexuals in thailand are allowed to crossdress in the business world. Let say in office, are they allowed to wear blouse? do they have long hair when coming to office?

Many thanks

[bWn4h8QD]

Hello,

I lived in Bangkok for the first 13 years of my life. (Will have been in the US for 30 years this fall) Having known since birth that I was born a gay man, I never like being called katoey. But I don't think there was an alternative term when I was growing up then. (I was born in 1963.) I do think that "katoey" is an offensive word.
I am curious what gay people are called these days in Thailand. I do visit Thailand but not often enough to keep up with the latest trends!!

Thanks to all the posters and the webmaster. This is great!! I just found you guys!!

[ephennaCypota]

I would imagine that since ladyboys consider themselves women it would be approriate to refer to them as she/her.
I think there needs to bee a distinction here made between ladyboys and gay men who are effeminate. Men who are obviously men but gay I don't think would be regarded as ladyboys. There are plenty of "campy" gay men around that don't become ladyboys so let's not get them confused.

[DownloadMan]

Absolutely, Mike! It's not a clothes issue, it's an identity issue. We need to value that. Thats for sure, it is an idenity issue,, Always check the birth cert. that will usually tell ya.

[!!Aaroncheg]

I don't think katoey is offensive, this seems to be the word Thais use to describe ladyboys. the place where I'm staying has a ladyboy receptionist / clerk, and I also had a ladyboy Thai massage teacher. the latter was funny because there was a Muslim girl in the group, and when the ladyboy wanted to touch her, she had a hard time deciding if (s)he counts as a man or a woman! we ended up openly asking him / her about anatomy, decided she counts as an eunuch and is thus allowed to touch her. the situation was so awkward we kept laughing for minutes, and it's just great that the topic could be discussed openly.

[favwebbb]

Hi!

The "gathoeis" I have seen in Thailand working in offices were wearing men's wear and haircut. Those working in shops selling clothes or shoes etc, or in restaurants, hairdressers, and so on... they were more free to wear whatever they like and they often have long hair.
This is just my perception, and I must add I haven't seen that many transsexuals working in offices while I was in Thailand. I think that either transsexuals prefer other jobs than those in offices or that they prefer (or are forced) to hide their being "different"... ??

I'd like to hear other people's experiences too...

[DownloadMan]

No different treatment between Katoeys and Dykes here, my wife cousin sister in law is a Dyke, she and her "wife" live next door to the cousin just down the street a 100 meters from our house, nothing ever said about it and they both work in the fields..

[Redys]

I would very much prefer to be called a she. Since I have no doubt that I am a girl in essence. On the other hand, I am very much anxious to work in office since I always tend to wear women's clothes (not skirts, just blouse). But they told it isn't allowed. I don't feel comfortable wearing men's

[Redys]

thanks for the post guys. Keep them coming, I am truly enlightened. I just hope that some form of empowerment should be given to transexuals. Because like any other, we contribute to the success and failure of every entity.

[DownloadMan]

My wife calls men "Queens" and women "TOMS" and crossdressers Katoeys.

[favwebbb]

Perhaps the reason that Maipenrai99 didn't see and ladyboys in offices in Thailand is because the ones who are working in "normal" jobs look and dress like any other girl, in a lot of cases they don't "stick out".

Yes, that might be the case. But still, I think that most ladyboys one can recognize as such - sometimes because of their beauty, like Jerome said. But if they really dress like other girls (or sometimes like men) in office jobs, I guess I would have seen at least some more than I actually did...?! Or could they really be so much like other girls that even Thai people wouldn't notice the difference?
I still think that most ladyboys don't work in office jobs. (but maybe I'm wrong?)

[Soassesaisp]

I would imagine that since ladyboys consider themselves women it would be approriate to refer to them as she/her.
I think there needs to bee a distinction here made between ladyboys and gay men who are effeminate. Men who are obviously men but gay I don't think would be regarded as ladyboys. There are plenty of "campy" gay men around that don't become ladyboys so let's not get them confused.

I have known personally a couple of ladyboys (operation already) who on going back to their hometown, tie back their hair like a rocker and wear a loose baggy jacket. They have suddenly returned to looking like a man. She could be called a semi-ladyboy as she can switch roles whenever she wants. And no, she isn't gay neither!

This is an example of where ladyboys are accepted, but there is a level to the acceptance. Some families, fathers, feel like they have lost extreme face if their son is a 'ladyboy' or gay.

It depends on the family though. Some are accepting.

Unfortunately, Thais are in the habit of calling any man (or previous man) who acts like a woman a 'katoey', when in fact they are just gay. The Thais have a word 'gay' as in 'gay' but they prefer to use the wrong term 'katoey'.

They use the term 'gay' when the person acts completely like a straight man and one can't notice any difference. As you will know though, most gay guys in Thailand like to act like they are gay and 'show it'.

BTW:
I don't always believe the popular term 'born in a man's body'. Why not? because it is known in Thailand that a lot of ladyboys aren't real ladyboys. Example: at university they wear skirts, bras, adorn make-up (no operation) then a few years later they are wearing a shirt, tie and married with 2 kids!! Having the operation, is the way to truly differentiate.
Don't believe the hype, a lot of so-called ladyboys in Thailand aren't as 'ladyboyish' as they make out!

[N95FzmMw]

In fact, it doesn't tell you.