[boltondd]

CNN is also giving their own reporters commentarys and assumptions of what is going on in the world and more or less siding with Palestine against the Jews, With the Muslims against the USA,
Like "Israel fired onto a beach and killed a whole family in the gaza strip and Israeli troops attacked and killed 2 children and 7 civilians and the leader of a Jihad cell when a rocket was fired into his car, Palestine fires some rockets into Israel". Hardly seems like unbiased news coverage.
So I am also watching mostly BBC now, we only get CNN and BBC, and business news on CNBC.

Yes, but civilised nations are supposed to be above the type of acts committed by terrorists. To me, the notion of "collateral damage" is a pretty disgusting one. It's unavoidable at times, usually during the heat of battle, but at other times it can be equated to cold blooded murder.

I also watch BBC World all the time. They also carried the story of an Israeli Gunboat shelling the beach and killing a family who were there. That was the news at the time. Now it's carrying the Israeli bulletin saying the explosion occurred after the shelling stopped and that it was a Hamas mine that caused the explosion. There is no way to know what the truth is, all you can say is that Israel has never been shy in killing Palestine civilians, either directly or as "collateral damage", or that Hamas would have few second thoughts about killing Palestines either.

[DownloadMan]

But if I am in someone else country I never really critisize their govt. If I don't like it I leave because the people must be happy with it or they would/should do something about it.

The people in Gitmo are actually POWs I think as they were taken in a war of sorts that is ongoing and I have never seen POWs returned to their country to pick up arms again. Used to be I think that if you were captured, you could swear to remain neutral and be released, but that was a more honorable time and dealing with civilized people.

I can not see where the reporters deserved any mention at all, let alone hero status for delivering left hand news to the folks back home, and I do not believe in news people being in war zones and reporting what they think is going on, last thing a country needs is some civilians commentary of the war, their own opinions do not count. and human rights people saying that the prisoners are not being treated fairly when the otherside chops off the heads of their prisoners [combatent or not] and nothing is said about it.

CNN is also giving their own reporters commentarys and assumptions of what is going on in the world and more or less siding with Palestine against the Jews, With the Muslims against the USA,
Like "Israel fired onto a beach and killed a whole family in the gaza strip and Israeli troops attacked and killed 2 children and 7 civilians and the leader of a Jihad cell when a rocket was fired into his car, Palestine fires some rockets into Israel". Hardly seems like unbiased news coverage.
So I am also watching mostly BBC now, we only get CNN and BBC, and business news on CNBC.

There is a lot more deaths now in Iraq since democracy was brought into the country than when Saddam was in power, but they do not seem civilized enough to handle democracy and so sectarian killing will continue until some stops it with dictatorship or one sect kills all the other sect.So it was not a flimsy pretex of the start of the war even tho getting Saddam out was the wrong thing to do.

[DownloadMan]

Well Peter, I do not know your situation, but you seem to have left the country of your birth to go there so you must like it, and you can bad mouth it with no fear of repercussion, so must have something going for it.

And it still is up to the electorate what crook they hire to take their money, and they always seem to vote for the one that is taking it at the time, maybe in hopes that they will get enough in the sock to quit stealing and start to do the job that they are paid to do.

And it also seems like term limits and changing horses is no better way to do it either, Mexico limits their pres. to one term only and they are worse than the 2 term Americans.

So maybe it is just that all politicos are crooks,,as someone once said, "Show me a politician and I will show you a lawyer,Show me a lawyer and I will show you a thief" nuff said.

[DownloadMan]

Shuba said Now, there are some excellent points made by FaranginPhetch and Peterg about charity, what each of us as an individual might do. While there are undoubtedly many organizations and many ways to help people in Thailand, I'd like to mention one with which I have had personal contact and I believe in strongly. It's the Students' Education Trust. Basically, empowering needy people with an education is the ultimate answer to ending the cycles of poverty, ignorance, and abuse.

So, got ten euros? ten quid? ten dollars? Maybe a little more? Want to make a difference? You can The USA was in a position to help the refugees of SE ASIA at one time, but with the influx of illegals coming across the southern borders and taking jobs and burning the money from the coffers of welfare agencys and over 12 million illegals in the country, they are hard pressed to care for their own poor now and must expel those illegals before they can do anything else.

There are different ways that people can do what they think is right, but it is up to them to do it.
Some set and scream about how poor should be helped with money and services, then they take their paychecks and spend it on new stereo equipment, $2,000 for new wheels for their new Z28 that they couldn't afford but bought anyway, Buy a new model cell phone everytime an extra fancy model hits the market,, not one cent to charity, but set and cry about people not doing enough when they could have driven that old 1981 Honda Civic that is setting out in the back yard and donated the $35K that they have socked into the new Z car.
I am not saying that should be the way you live, but if you didn't do it, then shut your mouth til you do, We damn tired of your liberal rantings..

[boltondd]

aliens?! you're talking about children. human beings. and that's the only criterion I know when it comes to education and basic health care. I don't think the bill would run to impossible billions over here. in a way, the lack of care will prove more expensive in the long run. I'm talking about basic necessities, not luxuries.
Thais usually have more compassion than most of us. but in this case, they also need some shift in perspective and attitude, as many of them tend to look down on neighbouring countries and nationalities.

You are right Betti but have you ever heard of the thin end of the wedge? The real problem is you extend the hand of friendship to one and before you know where you are there are thousands, if not millions. more asking for the same. Where do you draw the line? In an ideal world all governments would be doing the best for their people not enriching their own pockets. Human nature at work again!

[boltondd]

My own view is that the "donor" nations should be held more accountable. If there is any fault attributable to the Thai government it is their tolerance of a military dictatorship next door. It is that government that is responsible for the plight of the Karen people (and the other displaced hill tribes). I haven't seen many protests in Thailand over the plight of Ang Su Chi, the legal head of the Myanmar government who has just had her house arrest extended. Or of the continued campaign against the Karen people.

As FIP points out, one cannot be responsible for all and sundry. The line has to be drawn somewhere else everyone suffers! Fact of life I'm afraid.

[boltondd]

Your absolutely right PLB, and nothing will ever change until the root causes are addressed and for that you need compationate and reactive governments, until then we are only scratching the surface. If you want a real tragedy look to Darfur where world attention is lagging and resources are drifting away. When you have retiring CEO's receiving upto half a billion dollars what hope is there for the impoverished?

[Caursedus]

What seems to be the fuss about being extremely poor, to many do-gooders who have lived comfortable lives feeling sorry for some one who has a basic living standard. I've lived in a tent a tine shed, it did not concern me, if you been bread tuft, you are used to the life style.
There is a big advantages of being very poor. No mortgage no rent no worries, just live with nature in a home made shake, that took 1 week to build, what a life style, with plenty of friends and community, in the same boat, sharing leisure time, not afforded to hard working low income semi poor factory workers in Bangkok, who have to work 14 hours a day to pay the rent.

[boltondd]

Understood, no more

[usaneisfiecup]

FiP: The USA was in a position to help the refugees of SE ASIA at one time, but with the influx of illegals coming across the southern borders and taking jobs and burning the money from the coffers of welfare agencys and over 12 million illegals in the country, they are hard pressed to care for their own poor now and must expel those illegals before they can do anything else. I don't want to go down the path of discussing American immigration because we have already done that... and I can tell that I hold an opposing view to many here. However, I really don't think that the US is hard pressed to care for our own poor... we have the resources. We just allocated them to other things (read: war). I think governments and individuals often have MUCH more money and resources than they aknowledge.

I want to get back to the original article, though... a view of poverty among different groups in Thailand. I am just shocked that we immediately start blaming them for this and start listing all of the reasons that they shouldn't be helped or supported. Of course world economies are complicated... but where is the pause? Where is the aknowledgement of their condition? Where is the human emotion of saddness that that occurs. Then we can talk about ways to solve it and then it is complicated...

[!!Aaroncheg]

I think there is a huge big difference between illegal immigrants and refugees.
and it is plain ridiculous that hundreds of people who have been living in Thailand for ages or since their birth are not citizens. many of them are born without any citizenship, and are thus not entitled to have basic health care and education. they are outcasts everywhere, society even takes advantage of their availability as cheap labour. I think the worst possible solution is to have illiterate poor kids without any citizenship and prospects, and parents without the right to own a home or apply for a proper job. this just generates more illiteracy, poverty, and suffering. of course this doesn't mean that all immigrants and refugees should be welcome. there must be some balance. but those who have been fighting for citizenship for years or decades do deserve more. and refugees also do deserve more help. you cannot just send them back to Burma.

[DownloadMan]

You are a fairly rich country that can afford such treatment of aliens, but when you can not even supply aid and jobs to your own people then you shouldn't be required to offer.

Would you give away your own familys food and lodging to someone else and let your family go without, I sure wouldn't, and until Thailand has employment and such for her own people then they should not be forced to give what they do have to aliens.

The USA has done the same thing until their own are going without the necessities of life and now are over run with illegal aliens who have broke the welfare system and have forced a lot of hospitals to close their ER facitlties because they can no longer afford to give free medical care to illegals [ER were never free and in fact cost more to use than a regular doctors services] but illegals come to them and they can not refuse the service but are never paid.

[DownloadMan]

There is no way to know what the truth is, all you can say is that Israel has never been shy in killing Palestine civilians, either directly or as "collateral damage", or that Hamas would have few second thoughts about killing Palestine's either. Right you are on both counts, But war is not for regular folks They just can't equate that treatment and actions bring like actions.
Hamas has no thoughts on civil actions, look at the many hundreds of Israeli civilians killed by suicide bombers with no thought of right or wrong by Palestine people. Therefore the news people should just report what happens if anything at all, not their own ideas on what and why.
I just wish that they all would quit what they are doing as it brings back thoughts and memories of times that I just do not care to be foremost in my mind.

[DownloadMan]

And is a natural way of life for those civilized enough to handle it, It is everyones right to advancement if they are qualified to handle it.

Darfur, Mogadeshu, Timor, Palestine and Iraq are perfect examples of that.
It is not for everyone because some have not advanced far enough socially for DEMOCRATIC form of governments and need to be told what to do and have to obey the rules under some form of punishment and most chose the penalty of death.

Without social advancement there will always be sectarian violence because they can not understand that there is "any way but my way" and if you do not believe as I do then I will kill you.

The worse thing about it is someone trying to force Democracy on people that are not advanced enough to figure it out and then a lot of people will be killed or put into great disadvantage.

Put into being any form of govt. that you want to in your own country, enforce it within your own borders, and keep your nose out of others business, But when you try to force your way upon others without the strength or will to enforce it will always downgrade into violence.

[usaneisfiecup]

I think the world certainly has more capacity to give than it does. People get hung up on whose responsibility it is to give or all of the criteria people must pass before they can receive.

I think we need to make a distinction between a country's people having the 'necessities of life' and the 'wants and desires of life'.

When I read that article, I am upset that there is poverty. Am I alone?

[DownloadMan]

While the questions are asked, little Gongsak, dressed only in a filthy t-shirt, plays in the dirt with one of his dogs. Another local boy, clearly of school age but whose parents have never sent him to school since they migrated here from Myanmar, sits on the shack’s rickety wooden steps watching the interview.

A picture of how children live

Between them, the two boys are perfect examples of what this UNICEF-sponsored survey is trying to reveal: the gulf between the living conditions of most Thais and the deprivation of children in remote and isolated areas – particularly the children of ethnic minorities like Gongsak and migrants like his playmate.

“If the government is to produce policies that address the real needs of children in Thailand, we have to get a better idea of the situation at the local level,” explained UNICEF Representative in Thailand Inese Zalitis.

“In particular, children who are not registered or who live in very remote areas are often left out of official statistics,” said Ms. Zalitis. “So national figures for school attendance or child mortality, for example, can give too rosy a picture, leading to problems being ignored.” Are these children and grown ups actually legal immigrants to Thailand??

As there seem to be a lot of illegals that have came from Laos, Burma and even China to Thailand who say they are seeking a better life and expect the govt. of Thailand to spread already overextended social services to cover illegals, as has happened and is still happening in the USA for an example, the social needs of the illegals has broken the bank in the USA by illegals getting the same amount of services as the legals who have at one time or another, paid for such services and which are now so overloaded with illegals that no one, even those who qualify for them can get anything from them as that sector of the govt. is broke..

It is my opinion that services of govts. should be for legal residents of any country and illegals should be deported at the earliest possible time, most do not bring any needed commodity to a country and only tap into the reserves that are set up to protect legals.

Sorry if this sounds to strong for you, but countrys have to protect the legal citizens first, or you just give your country away.

[boltondd]

I as thinking more about the hypocracy of governments, especially now with their cries of democracy and freedom whereas in fact, they are more concerned with geopolitical issues. Meanwhile they blithely ignore what is going on in China, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc., etc., etc.

Lousy, corrupt, governments create refugees, economic migrants, and various other displaced peoples based on various criteria such as Global Economic Welfare, Democracy, Maoism, Fascism, Zionims, Mohammedism, etc. And no government is exempt!
(or very few are)

[usaneisfiecup]

FiP: But just for starters, what % of your yearly net salary do you spend on yourself,, And what % do you donate to any charity at all?? I live and spend to my values. As everyone should.

[!!Aaroncheg]

Child workers face exposure to chemicals in agricultural sector
SUPAMART KASEM

Tak
Many child workers in provinces along the Burmese border, especially in the agricultural sector, face health threats from exposure to chemicals, a study has found. Speaking on the study, 'Child Labour in the Farming Sector', at Chiang Mai University, Asst Prof Nongyao Naowarat said 66.9% of child workers were indirectly exposed to chemicals by cleaning farming tools tainted with herbicides.
Another 22.6% came into direct contact with chemical substances while spraying insecticides.
The meeting drew state officials, representatives of non-governmental organisations, child labour activists and community leaders to seek more effective measures to protect child labourers from work-related hazards.
The research was conducted in Mae Sot and Phop Phra districts in the border province of Tak, where many child labourers are employed.
The research was based on the accounts of 589 children, both boys and girls, aged below 18.
They were surveyed while working in local plantations, and included both Thai and Burmese natives.
Those surveyed said they worked more than eight hours a day, with meagre daily wages of around 50 to 60 baht.
Ms Nongyao hopes the study's findings will be a wake-up call for the relevant agencies to develop efficient systems to end the exploitation of children under the principles of the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 182, to which Thailand is a signatory.
Under the convention, countries are required to protect young people from human trafficking, prostitution, pornography, drug abuse and child labour exploitation.
Panudda Boonpala, an ILO senior child labour specialist, said a similar study was carried out in other areas in Chiang Rai, Songkhla, Pattani, Samut Sakhon and Udon Thani. It found that some child labourers suffer abuse at the hands of employers.
They work long hours and do not get enough days off. Many work in unsafe working environments and some become victims of sexual abuse.
The discussion group suggested that a centre be established to improve living conditions for the underprivileged and stateless people in the border provinces. The centre would be run by a provincial committee within the practical guide- lines laid down in ILO Convention No. 182.

Bangkok Post, 19 June 2006

[DownloadMan]

I think the world certainly has more capacity to give than it does. People get hung up on whose responsibility it is to give or all of the criteria people must pass before they can receive.

I think we need to make a distinction between a country's people having the 'necessities of life' and the 'wants and desires of life'.

When I read that article, I am upset that there is poverty. Am I alone?

But just for starters, what % of your yearly net salary do you spend on yourself,, And what % do you donate to any charity at all??

And while we are on the subject of Charity's, How much do you donate to Charity's in Thailand?? I spend some money right along on charity here,, I know first hand that the Thai people do need it and do not have what is considered the bare necessities either, let alone to be giving to aliens, no matter the age,,if you can't support them, don't have them..

Just like the African country's that are always starving to death, every year there is cries from the same country's for more food and shelter as the children are starving and dying, they never have food,shelter or water, but they always have an abundance of little kids and baby's.

PS,, But what charity I extend here is for the Thai children mostly, some might go to adults, but they are Thai.
I never donate to Pathet Lao people or any of the others here as they have a country and left to come here ilegally, Not my fault, if they do not like their leadership, then do something to chang it, that has happen in a lot of countrys here of late and it happen a couple of hundred years ago in my home country and just a couple of weeks ago in Nepal.