[jokilewqs]

In Thailand, survey reveals gulf in living standards between ethnic groups
By Robert Few

RATCHABURI, Thailand, 12 June 2006 – “Has your child taken a poo today?” “Yes, behind the house, but the dogs have eaten it all.”

This exchange between a government official and a woman from the Karen ethnic group in western Thailand may seem comical, but it occurred as part of a very serious project: a survey of child rights and basic needs in 60,000 households in Thailand.

One of those households is a flimsy wooden shack with no toilet or running water, where Noy Meer and son Gongsak, 3, are answering questions about clean water, sanitation – and dogs. Mother and child live in poverty, on a handful of dollars a month and on the fringe of mainstream society.

While the questions are asked, little Gongsak, dressed only in a filthy t-shirt, plays in the dirt with one of his dogs. Another local boy, clearly of school age but whose parents have never sent him to school since they migrated here from Myanmar, sits on the shack’s rickety wooden steps watching the interview.

A picture of how children live

Between them, the two boys are perfect examples of what this UNICEF-sponsored survey is trying to reveal: the gulf between the living conditions of most Thais and the deprivation of children in remote and isolated areas – particularly the children of ethnic minorities like Gongsak and migrants like his playmate.

“If the government is to produce policies that address the real needs of children in Thailand, we have to get a better idea of the situation at the local level,” explained UNICEF Representative in Thailand Inese Zalitis.

“In particular, children who are not registered or who live in very remote areas are often left out of official statistics,” said Ms. Zalitis. “So national figures for school attendance or child mortality, for example, can give too rosy a picture, leading to problems being ignored.”

The project, formally known as a multiple indicator cluster survey, is the first of its kind ever carried out in Thailand and one of the largest, in terms of households covered, undertaken by UNICEF anywhere in the world.

When the data from the survey are analyzed, they will provide the clearest picture ever of how children live in Thailand. In addition to water and sanitation, questions cover educational access, HIV/AIDS, vaccinations, nutrition and other issues that affect children’s survival and development.

Results will help target resources

Even at this preliminary stage, disparities are becoming clear. And it’s not just a gulf in terms of living standards, but also in knowledge and child-care skills.

“Most of the ethnic Thais know the basics about HIV/AIDS, although they are not too sure of things like whether a mother can pass it on to her child,” said Sumontha Kamkaen of the National Statistics Office, a UNICEF partner on the survey project. “But few of the Karen even know what HIV/AIDS is.”

Early results also show that most ethnic Thais know how important it is to protect their children against childhood diseases – but few Karen seem to know that their children could be crippled or killed by preventable illnesses, or that immunization is available.

The results of the survey should be the first step in bridging this gulf in knowledge and standards. With clear data from the local level, UNICEF will be able to advocate for the targeting of resources.

At the end of the interview with Gongsak’s mother, at the very least, she had been reminded of the importance of taking Gongsak to school and getting him immunized. But the larger benefits will come later – when the data generated by this survey lead to policies that will improve the lives of all Thai children.

- http://www.unicef.org

[DownloadMan]

While the questions are asked, little Gongsak, dressed only in a filthy t-shirt, plays in the dirt with one of his dogs. Another local boy, clearly of school age but whose parents have never sent him to school since they migrated here from Myanmar, sits on the shack’s rickety wooden steps watching the interview.

A picture of how children live

Between them, the two boys are perfect examples of what this UNICEF-sponsored survey is trying to reveal: the gulf between the living conditions of most Thais and the deprivation of children in remote and isolated areas – particularly the children of ethnic minorities like Gongsak and migrants like his playmate.

“If the government is to produce policies that address the real needs of children in Thailand, we have to get a better idea of the situation at the local level,” explained UNICEF Representative in Thailand Inese Zalitis.

“In particular, children who are not registered or who live in very remote areas are often left out of official statistics,” said Ms. Zalitis. “So national figures for school attendance or child mortality, for example, can give too rosy a picture, leading to problems being ignored.” Are these children and grown ups actually legal immigrants to Thailand??

As there seem to be a lot of illegals that have came from Laos, Burma and even China to Thailand who say they are seeking a better life and expect the govt. of Thailand to spread already overextended social services to cover illegals, as has happened and is still happening in the USA for an example, the social needs of the illegals has broken the bank in the USA by illegals getting the same amount of services as the legals who have at one time or another, paid for such services and which are now so overloaded with illegals that no one, even those who qualify for them can get anything from them as that sector of the govt. is broke..

It is my opinion that services of govts. should be for legal residents of any country and illegals should be deported at the earliest possible time, most do not bring any needed commodity to a country and only tap into the reserves that are set up to protect legals.

Sorry if this sounds to strong for you, but countrys have to protect the legal citizens first, or you just give your country away.

[boltondd]

My own view is that the "donor" nations should be held more accountable. If there is any fault attributable to the Thai government it is their tolerance of a military dictatorship next door. It is that government that is responsible for the plight of the Karen people (and the other displaced hill tribes). I haven't seen many protests in Thailand over the plight of Ang Su Chi, the legal head of the Myanmar government who has just had her house arrest extended. Or of the continued campaign against the Karen people.

As FIP points out, one cannot be responsible for all and sundry. The line has to be drawn somewhere else everyone suffers! Fact of life I'm afraid.

[!!Aaroncheg]

I think there is a huge big difference between illegal immigrants and refugees.
and it is plain ridiculous that hundreds of people who have been living in Thailand for ages or since their birth are not citizens. many of them are born without any citizenship, and are thus not entitled to have basic health care and education. they are outcasts everywhere, society even takes advantage of their availability as cheap labour. I think the worst possible solution is to have illiterate poor kids without any citizenship and prospects, and parents without the right to own a home or apply for a proper job. this just generates more illiteracy, poverty, and suffering. of course this doesn't mean that all immigrants and refugees should be welcome. there must be some balance. but those who have been fighting for citizenship for years or decades do deserve more. and refugees also do deserve more help. you cannot just send them back to Burma.

[DownloadMan]

You are a fairly rich country that can afford such treatment of aliens, but when you can not even supply aid and jobs to your own people then you shouldn't be required to offer.

Would you give away your own familys food and lodging to someone else and let your family go without, I sure wouldn't, and until Thailand has employment and such for her own people then they should not be forced to give what they do have to aliens.

The USA has done the same thing until their own are going without the necessities of life and now are over run with illegal aliens who have broke the welfare system and have forced a lot of hospitals to close their ER facitlties because they can no longer afford to give free medical care to illegals [ER were never free and in fact cost more to use than a regular doctors services] but illegals come to them and they can not refuse the service but are never paid.

[!!Aaroncheg]

aliens?! you're talking about children. human beings. and that's the only criterion I know when it comes to education and basic health care. I don't think the bill would run to impossible billions over here. in a way, the lack of care will prove more expensive in the long run. I'm talking about basic necessities, not luxuries.
Thais usually have more compassion than most of us. but in this case, they also need some shift in perspective and attitude, as many of them tend to look down on neighbouring countries and nationalities.

[usaneisfiecup]

I think the world certainly has more capacity to give than it does. People get hung up on whose responsibility it is to give or all of the criteria people must pass before they can receive.

I think we need to make a distinction between a country's people having the 'necessities of life' and the 'wants and desires of life'.

When I read that article, I am upset that there is poverty. Am I alone?

[DownloadMan]

I think the world certainly has more capacity to give than it does. People get hung up on whose responsibility it is to give or all of the criteria people must pass before they can receive.

I think we need to make a distinction between a country's people having the 'necessities of life' and the 'wants and desires of life'.

When I read that article, I am upset that there is poverty. Am I alone?

But just for starters, what % of your yearly net salary do you spend on yourself,, And what % do you donate to any charity at all??

And while we are on the subject of Charity's, How much do you donate to Charity's in Thailand?? I spend some money right along on charity here,, I know first hand that the Thai people do need it and do not have what is considered the bare necessities either, let alone to be giving to aliens, no matter the age,,if you can't support them, don't have them..

Just like the African country's that are always starving to death, every year there is cries from the same country's for more food and shelter as the children are starving and dying, they never have food,shelter or water, but they always have an abundance of little kids and baby's.

PS,, But what charity I extend here is for the Thai children mostly, some might go to adults, but they are Thai.
I never donate to Pathet Lao people or any of the others here as they have a country and left to come here ilegally, Not my fault, if they do not like their leadership, then do something to chang it, that has happen in a lot of countrys here of late and it happen a couple of hundred years ago in my home country and just a couple of weeks ago in Nepal.

[boltondd]

aliens?! you're talking about children. human beings. and that's the only criterion I know when it comes to education and basic health care. I don't think the bill would run to impossible billions over here. in a way, the lack of care will prove more expensive in the long run. I'm talking about basic necessities, not luxuries.
Thais usually have more compassion than most of us. but in this case, they also need some shift in perspective and attitude, as many of them tend to look down on neighbouring countries and nationalities.

You are right Betti but have you ever heard of the thin end of the wedge? The real problem is you extend the hand of friendship to one and before you know where you are there are thousands, if not millions. more asking for the same. Where do you draw the line? In an ideal world all governments would be doing the best for their people not enriching their own pockets. Human nature at work again!

[usaneisfiecup]

FiP: But just for starters, what % of your yearly net salary do you spend on yourself,, And what % do you donate to any charity at all?? I live and spend to my values. As everyone should.

[AccusaJalsBub]

Lots of interesting and provacative comments in this thread. Here in Minnesota, we have (I believe) the second largest population of Hmong refugees in the United States, virtually all of whom were from families originally in refugee camps in Thailand. It so happens that our local paper's front page story today addresses this issue. See the story if you're interested, where it says that about four percent of our city school kids are from Hmong families.

I've heard people for years complaining about the drain on the welfare system and even other derogatory and racist comments about the influx of these people over the years. The fact is that the Hmong here have revitalized some rundown areas of the city, and have contributed to our economy greatly. It's generally a success story, and I have to say that I hear people complaining much less about the Hmong immigrants today than in the past.

Many of these Hmong families escaped from Laos in the mid to late 1970s, and I have personally talked with people who swam across the Mekhong River in the middle of the night with bamboo tied to their bodies. There are cases where mothers drowned their own children, lest their crying would give away their position and draw rifle fire from the soldiers. It's worth remembering that the political reason we have Hmong refugees here in the USA is because of the sacrifices made to opppose the Communist factions.

Now, there are some excellent points made by FaranginPhetch and Peterg about charity, what each of us as an individual might do. While there are undoubtedly many organizations and many ways to help people in Thailand, I'd like to mention one with which I have had personal contact and I believe in strongly. It's the Students' Education Trust. Basically, empowering needy people with an education is the ultimate answer to ending the cycles of poverty, ignorance, and abuse.

So, got ten euros? ten quid? ten dollars? Maybe a little more? Want to make a difference? You can.

[DownloadMan]

Shuba said Now, there are some excellent points made by FaranginPhetch and Peterg about charity, what each of us as an individual might do. While there are undoubtedly many organizations and many ways to help people in Thailand, I'd like to mention one with which I have had personal contact and I believe in strongly. It's the Students' Education Trust. Basically, empowering needy people with an education is the ultimate answer to ending the cycles of poverty, ignorance, and abuse.

So, got ten euros? ten quid? ten dollars? Maybe a little more? Want to make a difference? You can The USA was in a position to help the refugees of SE ASIA at one time, but with the influx of illegals coming across the southern borders and taking jobs and burning the money from the coffers of welfare agencys and over 12 million illegals in the country, they are hard pressed to care for their own poor now and must expel those illegals before they can do anything else.

There are different ways that people can do what they think is right, but it is up to them to do it.
Some set and scream about how poor should be helped with money and services, then they take their paychecks and spend it on new stereo equipment, $2,000 for new wheels for their new Z28 that they couldn't afford but bought anyway, Buy a new model cell phone everytime an extra fancy model hits the market,, not one cent to charity, but set and cry about people not doing enough when they could have driven that old 1981 Honda Civic that is setting out in the back yard and donated the $35K that they have socked into the new Z car.
I am not saying that should be the way you live, but if you didn't do it, then shut your mouth til you do, We damn tired of your liberal rantings..

[Caursedus]

What seems to be the fuss about being extremely poor, to many do-gooders who have lived comfortable lives feeling sorry for some one who has a basic living standard. I've lived in a tent a tine shed, it did not concern me, if you been bread tuft, you are used to the life style.
There is a big advantages of being very poor. No mortgage no rent no worries, just live with nature in a home made shake, that took 1 week to build, what a life style, with plenty of friends and community, in the same boat, sharing leisure time, not afforded to hard working low income semi poor factory workers in Bangkok, who have to work 14 hours a day to pay the rent.

[boltondd]

I as thinking more about the hypocracy of governments, especially now with their cries of democracy and freedom whereas in fact, they are more concerned with geopolitical issues. Meanwhile they blithely ignore what is going on in China, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc., etc., etc.

Lousy, corrupt, governments create refugees, economic migrants, and various other displaced peoples based on various criteria such as Global Economic Welfare, Democracy, Maoism, Fascism, Zionims, Mohammedism, etc. And no government is exempt!
(or very few are)

[usaneisfiecup]

FiP: The USA was in a position to help the refugees of SE ASIA at one time, but with the influx of illegals coming across the southern borders and taking jobs and burning the money from the coffers of welfare agencys and over 12 million illegals in the country, they are hard pressed to care for their own poor now and must expel those illegals before they can do anything else. I don't want to go down the path of discussing American immigration because we have already done that... and I can tell that I hold an opposing view to many here. However, I really don't think that the US is hard pressed to care for our own poor... we have the resources. We just allocated them to other things (read: war). I think governments and individuals often have MUCH more money and resources than they aknowledge.

I want to get back to the original article, though... a view of poverty among different groups in Thailand. I am just shocked that we immediately start blaming them for this and start listing all of the reasons that they shouldn't be helped or supported. Of course world economies are complicated... but where is the pause? Where is the aknowledgement of their condition? Where is the human emotion of saddness that that occurs. Then we can talk about ways to solve it and then it is complicated...

[boltondd]

Your absolutely right PLB, and nothing will ever change until the root causes are addressed and for that you need compationate and reactive governments, until then we are only scratching the surface. If you want a real tragedy look to Darfur where world attention is lagging and resources are drifting away. When you have retiring CEO's receiving upto half a billion dollars what hope is there for the impoverished?

[usaneisfiecup]

Peterg: If you want a real tragedy look to Darfur where world attention is lagging and resources are drifting away. When you have retiring CEO's receiving upto half a billion dollars what hope is there for the impoverished? Absolutely!! The disparity makes me sick!

[DownloadMan]

And is a natural way of life for those civilized enough to handle it, It is everyones right to advancement if they are qualified to handle it.

Darfur, Mogadeshu, Timor, Palestine and Iraq are perfect examples of that.
It is not for everyone because some have not advanced far enough socially for DEMOCRATIC form of governments and need to be told what to do and have to obey the rules under some form of punishment and most chose the penalty of death.

Without social advancement there will always be sectarian violence because they can not understand that there is "any way but my way" and if you do not believe as I do then I will kill you.

The worse thing about it is someone trying to force Democracy on people that are not advanced enough to figure it out and then a lot of people will be killed or put into great disadvantage.

Put into being any form of govt. that you want to in your own country, enforce it within your own borders, and keep your nose out of others business, But when you try to force your way upon others without the strength or will to enforce it will always downgrade into violence.

[boltondd]

Sorry FIP but that's a load of bull!

You really think the US is a democracy? Over the last 15/20 years the 2 political parties have arranged it (gerrymandering) so that most congressional and senate seats are safe. Take what they did in Texas, the voting districts have been so distorted that there is very little chance of a recumbent losing!

Most people are so dissolutioned that it would take an earthquake to get them back in the electoral process.

Then you have the government itself so tied into the butts of the political contributors that they do evertything but the one thing they are elected for, to serve the people.

Then you have the UK government doing exactly the same thing. Grazing on the backs of the electorate and getting stinking rich at the same time.

These governments are no better than any of the 2nd or 3rd world countries, they just have more sophisticated processes!

[DownloadMan]

Well Peter, I do not know your situation, but you seem to have left the country of your birth to go there so you must like it, and you can bad mouth it with no fear of repercussion, so must have something going for it.

And it still is up to the electorate what crook they hire to take their money, and they always seem to vote for the one that is taking it at the time, maybe in hopes that they will get enough in the sock to quit stealing and start to do the job that they are paid to do.

And it also seems like term limits and changing horses is no better way to do it either, Mexico limits their pres. to one term only and they are worse than the 2 term Americans.

So maybe it is just that all politicos are crooks,,as someone once said, "Show me a politician and I will show you a lawyer,Show me a lawyer and I will show you a thief" nuff said.