[Vobomei]

Regarding child labor, Mead stressed that in many countries it's unusual if children don't have to do serious work. "The idea that childhood is a time of play and of education is something that 200 years ago almost nobody in the world had," he said.

. . .

"We, Americans, we live in kind of a bubble-wrapped world and our kids live in a bubble-wrapped world," Mead said. "Life out there in much of the world has choices that we can hardly imagine.

Amen to that! American kids by and large (myself included!) are incredibly spoiled and pampered by world standards. For American journalists and eggheads to be the "child police" for the world is absurd because most of these people haven't a clue what families have to do to make a living in third- and emerging-world countries. That's not to condone things that are plainly wrong by any standards, such as selling girls into sex slavery, but if a family has to put their children to work (and I mean hard work) to make ends meet, then that's the reality. My wife worked harder at age 6 than many adults in the U.S. do (and they complain and moan about their working conditions), and it didn't kill her. In fact, it instilled a strong work ethic in her, which is sadly lacking in many people who have grown up with the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths. That work ethic has served her well, as now she owns and operates her own business even though she didn't get past an elementary school education.

To his credit, Kellstein doesn't flatly condemn Thai boxing for children. He wisely recognizes that there are things about Thai culture that we westerners don't or can't understand. Bravo for him!

DogoDon

[AngegepeM]

FYI:

Each year, more than 150,000 football players under age 15 seek treatment for injuries in hospital emergency rooms. Football injuries, many of them serious, can be prevented if players use all safety gear properly and follow the rules of the game.

[largonioulurI]

At 8 years old, these kids are basically not strong enough to do to much damage like serious brain injury of breaking bones, I think it is much safer to box at this age. At 8 years of age it is just healthy physical exercise, it is when they get older they should ban the sport.

[Nidsstese]

A top ranking Nakmuay at Lumpini can get 100,000 Baht a fight. 100,000!! For the average thai this money is just a dream. To reach the the hights of Lumpini one has to start early, as it takes many years to perfect the Art of Muay.

At a young age (like it has been said) the power of the punches knees elbows and kicks are not that large. At a young age the elbows dont even cut,i wish i had that when i started to fight. By the time the kids begin to develop REAL power they have been fighting long enough to know how to cover, evade, and defend so the risk of major injury is diminished.

Now befor people begin to jump up and down ans cry blood this and Broken that i would like to say this...

Over the years i have fought as a Nakmuay, i have had broken bones, noses. I have had cartalage damage and brusing, and i would not change it for the world. Muay Thai has taught me a lot abot life, but most about myself. When you cross the ropes it is just you in there, and you can not hide behind anyone. If you have not put in the preperation it shows, just like in life if you dont prepare, you fail. When the pressure is on and i mean really on, all your BEST PLANS fly out the window, and you find out who you really are. I know myself. I know my strengths and my weakness because of what i have been through. I Know what i can do in my life i know how far i can push myself. I thank Muay Thai. Is not a country of Adults who know themselves, because of what they have done in their youth, a stronger country?

(now this will get me flamed)


I speak of Muay Thai because I have crossed the ropes a number of times. For thoes of you who have not..... What do you Know of Muay Thai? How can you justly speak about it, when you know so little of it ,because you have never been there. You can make all the assumptions in the world.... but you know nothing of Muay. I know a lot about England, but how can i honestly speak of it when i have never been. I can not ,because i am just retelling what i have been told/read/seen. SO this is what i say to thoes who have not had the HEART to cross the ropes.....

PUT UP(and have a go), OR SHUT UP .

I myself, have the greatest respect for all who have had the courage to fight, whether it is the Champ with 400 fights, or the Farang who did it just once it test themselves.

[tuszit]

Thanks for sharing... I was watching 20/20 on Friday, but they cut in just at the Thai boxing point to cover a police chase in the area and I didn't get the title of the film...

[JetePlentuara]

Nong Pet, who came from even greater poverty than Stam, wins the first match between the two. Soon, however, the tables turn. Stam beats Nong Pet several times and becomes the most successful girl boxer in Thailand at her weight class (20 kilos, or 44 pounds); she currently commands a guaranteed 2,000 Baht ($63) per fight, plus a piece of whatever the total betting purse is. Her earnings are so substantial they enable her to buy her parents a new home. Meanwhile, Nong Pet's situation worsens during the time Kellstein films her she was forced to take an exhibition match in a brothel, accepting tips from Westerners.

Kellstein can document this without thinking it's the form of abuse because these children are none of his relatives or sisters. Only bruises, bloody lips, broken ribs..huh? I see the reason is because of poverty, and perhaps this 'work' is paid handsomly. However, could you see what will become of these children who have fallen from the champion's ring? Exhibition match in a brothel will lead to the oldest profession in the world-being a young prostitue.
Yes, I am mad because I saw 10-12 yrs old kids boxing before only at that time they were boys. I didn't know girls will box, not that I didn't notice girl-fights always sell better in the films reflecting how the world has thought of women.^:^

[Qutlsilh]

For those who seem to appreciate this, I've found the accompanying video for you to enjoy...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3702664&page=1

[Qutlsilh]

Kellstein says that despite the bruises, bloody noses... This speaks to nasal damage that can lead to long term breathing difficulties if not treated properly. Blood clots, broken cartilage, etc. Makes me wonder if this medical service is being provided out there in the mooban.

[JetePlentuara]

This news has been broadcast at ABC 20/20 on Oct9, 2007.

How Young Is too Young to Be a Prize Fighter?
The Business of Muay Thai Martial Arts in Thailand
By CHARLES LYONS
Oct. 9, 2007 —


Two 8-year-old Thai girls, wearing colorful headbands, shorts and T-shirts, their cheeks painted red, perform a slow ritualistic dance in a makeshift boxing ring. They kneel and bless their respective corners before facing off and striking a pose.

This is the spiritual part to Muay Thai, Thailand's 700-year-old martial art, seen at one time as the best means for the country to defend itself against foreign invasion. In modern times, Muay Thai is scarcely a weapon for national security; it's a fierce and urgent sport. But for thousands of children and their parents around rural Thailand, it's also one of the few avenues through which they can escape extreme poverty.

As young girls and boys wildly kick and punch each other in rural rings across Thailand, spectators (farmers, trainers, families, friends) place their bets. Each child stands to change his or her family's fortune with a winning blow. In fact, the victor of most fights will make more money in an hour than a farmer or factory worker earns in a month. More specifically, the average take-home pay for a kid boxer is between 700 Baht ($22) and 1,000 Baht ($31). With monthly rents often as low as 1,900 Baht ($60), a child's win in the ring can represent half of a family's monthly rent.

"When I first saw it, I absolutely thought it was child abuse," filmmaker Todd Kellstein told "20/20" co-anchor Elizabeth Vargas. "I thought it was horrible. & It was evil fathers and mothers who didn't care about their child."


Fighting for Survival
Kellstein says his views evolved as he documented child fighting in Thailand's remote provinces for two years for his film "Raised in the Ring."

The documentary tracks the maturation of two young prize fighters: Stam, 8, a striking, vivacious girl; and Nong Pet, 9, subdued and serious. Both girls' families desperately needed the cash and both appeared happy to help out.

"I fight to make my mom and dad happy," Stam told Kellstein through a translator. "They work very hard, and I am very, very poor." Similarly, Nong Pet, through a translator, said that she gives her money to her parents so they "can pay the rent and buy stuff."

Nong Pet, who came from even greater poverty than Stam, wins the first match between the two. Soon, however, the tables turn. Stam beats Nong Pet several times and becomes the most successful girl boxer in Thailand at her weight class (20 kilos, or 44 pounds); she currently commands a guaranteed 2,000 Baht ($63) per fight, plus a piece of whatever the total betting purse is. Her earnings are so substantial they enable her to buy her parents a new home. Meanwhile, Nong Pet's situation worsens during the time Kellstein films her  she was forced to take an exhibition match in a brothel, accepting tips from Westerners.

Although he wasn't sure about the long-term effects of Muay Thai on children, Kellstein ultimately found it to be an economic necessity. "I don't think we really understand it," he told Vargas. "We don't have poverty on that level."

According to a World Bank report, the per capita income of Thailand averages $3,316 per year, whereas in the United States, the per capita average, according to the same report, is roughly $43,400.

Financial realities aside, Kellstein's film invites questions about the age of the children involved in Muay Thai and the extent to which international child labor laws and children's rights are being violated.

Kellstein says that despite the bruises, bloody noses and hard kicks to the stomach he witnessed, he doesn't feel the children are being exploited; their parents, he said, love them very much and the kids are happy to help support them.


'Narrow Economic Margins'
However, groups in Thailand still object to the practice. In 1999, the Foundation for Child Rights Protection Centre in Bangkok, for example, tried to persuade the Thai government to ban child boxing. The motion failed when farmers from the provinces banded together, arguing that the farming economy would collapse if such fights were outlawed. Still, the foundation hopes a new petition to the government, scheduled for December, this year will bring child boxing to a stop, according to the organization's president, Sanpasit Kumpraphan.

Walter Mead, a senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, explains that betting on child Muay Thai fights is indeed essential to the Thai economy.

"You have to understand that many of these farmers live on very narrow economic margins," he said, "and generally speaking, unfortunately in a lot of the world, poor people can't borrow money easily or cheaply. Often they have to borrow it from illegal money lenders, who charge you serious rates of interest."

Mead explained that the need for cash, after a bad crop year, is compounded in Thailand by a rabid consumerism. "More and more now in Thailand," he said, "you can start to access some of the things that you and I take for granted, like a radio or a television. & Those things take cash."

Regarding child labor, Mead stressed that in many countries it's unusual if children don't have to do serious work. "The idea that childhood is a time of play and of education is something that 200 years ago almost nobody in the world had," he said.

Is it really just Western sensibilities that make Americans shocked to see young girls punching each other without head gear as adults bet on them?

"We, Americans, we live in kind of a bubble-wrapped world and our kids live in a bubble-wrapped world," Mead said. "Life out there in much of the world has choices that we can hardly imagine. & Thailand has a very large commercial sex industry, so in that sense it's progress if girls are going to the fighting ring rather than the brothel. You have to hope that some years from now they won't be going to either one."

For his part, Kellstein said he no longer gets angry about parents allowing their children to fight. "The thing I get angry about is that there is so much inequality in the world and that economic situations like this arise," he said. "These circumstances exist and we should think of ways to make it better for everyone. Not just in Thailand, but everywhere."


Copyright © 2007 ABC News Internet Ventures
t ABC 20/20 on Oct9,2007.

[ireleda]

And I say BS, When we were kids we used to have smokers where we would box, we fought in the streets and thats where the elbows and feet entered and so did the slight injurys and scuff marks.
We were mostly farm/ranch kids basically, worked in the summers when we were big enough to earn a few dollars a day, we lived in a small town in the ranching/logging sawmill country of eastern, Central Oregon and our parents came to the smokers and paid a small entrance fee and the prizes came from that.
And also led to Golden Gloves boxing and it damn sure is not a form of child abuse, I would think child abuse is closer to never letting them be kids and enjoy their growing up years, then when they are older they can be completely useless and live off the Dole like some of the older useless drug dealers, thats all they know.
IMHO.