[JennaJJxoxoxo]

Hmm, I don't think it was irrelevant. Quite the contrary. Anyway, where does it say that a thread has to go where the originator intended?

As you said, you didn't pick up on the signals, and it was not until things got REALLY bad that your colleagues told you what they really thought. That shows that things work differently in different cultures (though of course many of us have seen this sort of thing happen at times in a western workplace...)

Anyway, getting back to my question. A simplistic respose would be that if you'd been Thai you would have picked up on the signals, fixed it all up and "mai pen rai"

But what I'm interested in is how you would have felt. If you are a western person and your boss yells at you and tells you that if you don't do better you'll be fired you would probably:
(a) feel worried and annoyed.
(b) might yell back a little.
(c) fix the problem if you can.

Now this "Thai way" thing doesn't seem to involve your boss yelling or you yelling back.

But presumably it does involve feeling worried and annoyed. It's that part that is hard for a foreigner to pick up. Just because the situation was resolved without yelling doesn't necessarily mean that there was not emotional truama involved.

I realise that I'm spelling this out in a very simplistic way, but, as I've said, I've witnessed situations like this where the protagonists appeared quite relaxed at the time,
but clearly where not when they explained later what had been going on.

Maybe all of this is so obvious that it doesn't require further comment, but I feel better now that I've explained it to myself.

WE feel intimidated by people who are in a higher position so whatever the boss wants we can only say ' YES, sir ' regardless our feelings. Younger generations and disadvantaged people are always the victims, I used ' victims ' because they are helpless. I know that a lot of them don't want to be victims like myself, we want to be treated equally but that is Thailand. We class ourselves !

I grew up in a good but poor family in North of Thailand. From being so poor in the village my family was often being intimidated by neighbours. I tell you what...it affected us emotionally. As a result, I was a very timid and shy girl and didn't know how to socialise but lucky that I just get along with people quite easily which helped me a bit but I needed more than that. I think if you are constantly victimised , you gain less confidence and that affects how you live. Often we keep our mouths zipped when if comes to ' the boss and the workers '


What did I type wrong ? can anyone tell me please ... Khob khun khaa

[SusanSazzios]

Welcome to the Forum, Thai Ginger. Thank you for your comments about your childhood experiences.

Your English sounds find to me! ขอบคุณครับ

[SusanSazzios]

We recently had a discussion in the Thai Relationships area that touched on the issue of how Thai people and families deal with things that they find unacceptable. I don't want to focus on that particular issue, but I would like to share some thoughts based on my own rather limited experience of Thai people and Thai families.

One of wonderful things about Thai culture is the strength of the families. However, it is obvious that the families would not be this strong unless there was strong "cultural pressure" to "do the right thing" and ways of enforcing it when things go wrong. This pressure may not be particularly obvious to foreign visitors such as myself but it is there if you look carefully.

My perceptions, based on western experience, often make it difficult for me to work out what is really going on. I've personally witnessed conversations that on the surface seemed very polite and civilized (admittedly my grasp of Thai was not good enough to understand much of what was being said). Afterwards I learned that, in fact, one of the parties was quite annoyed and the other was deparately trying to apologise.

Now, my naive reaction to this would be "Oh, it's nice how polite these Thai people are, even when they are annoyed." But I think that reaction is based on my western perception. I suspect that a Thai person being "told off politely" actually feels roughly the same emotions as a western person being yelled at for messing up. I.e., shocked and dismayed.

Perhaps westerners are somewhere in the middle range. I've also had perception problems in
China, where I've witnessed exchanges that I thought were going to turn into fist fights, but turned out to be good-natured negotiation!

At either extreme, I think that it is perilous to use your own cultural perception of the body language and voice tone to try to understand the situation.

[SusanSazzios]

Hmm, I don't think it was irrelevant. Quite the contrary. Anyway, where does it say that a thread has to go where the originator intended?

As you said, you didn't pick up on the signals, and it was not until things got REALLY bad that your colleagues told you what they really thought. That shows that things work differently in different cultures (though of course many of us have seen this sort of thing happen at times in a western workplace...)

Anyway, getting back to my question. A simplistic respose would be that if you'd been Thai you would have picked up on the signals, fixed it all up and "mai pen rai"

But what I'm interested in is how you would have felt. If you are a western person and your boss yells at you and tells you that if you don't do better you'll be fired you would probably:
(a) feel worried and annoyed.
(b) might yell back a little.
(c) fix the problem if you can.

Now this "Thai way" thing doesn't seem to involve your boss yelling or you yelling back.

But presumably it does involve feeling worried and annoyed. It's that part that is hard for a foreigner to pick up. Just because the situation was resolved without yelling doesn't necessarily mean that there was not emotional truama involved.

I realise that I'm spelling this out in a very simplistic way, but, as I've said, I've witnessed situations like this where the protagonists appeared quite relaxed at the time,
but clearly where not when they explained later what had been going on.

Maybe all of this is so obvious that it doesn't require further comment, but I feel better now that I've explained it to myself.

[!!Aaroncheg]

Mike, I think this is actually one of the most difficult things to deal with when having daily contact with Thais. at least for me, with a very limited command of language, and a lack if social skills even in my home culture. and I admit I am completely lost, even after having spent a year in Thailand. I don't have experience in family settings, unfortunately - I did spend a few days with a friend's family though, felt I was inconveniencing them, moved out to a guesthouse, then they were offended, but was it real or just the right thing to feel? I still have no way of knowing. but the difficulties do hold for having to work together with Thai colleagues. my previous bad experience has turned me into mildly paranoid now. I know I cannot read the subtle clues. I will not understand a slight change in tone and body language. I cannot always distinguish between a polite smile and an honest smile. I am flexible, I try to adapt, after so much time in Taiwan, I can adapt even to things I don't agree with in a school environment. but even if you are positive and hard-working, you can make mistakes without knowing, and you can be suffering the consequences without knowing!
I also had similar experience with the Chinese - it's scary until one gets used to it. it also seems they are more willing to express dissatisfaction with someone. usually they don't do it directly, but ask someone (eg a colleague) to try to clear up the situation. but they are willing to talk about it, and that is the way to a solution. Thais tend to blurt out that you are not acceptable when wounds and misunderstandings are already too deep to heal and fix.
but this doesn't help you much, does it? just thoughts, no solutions or answers here....

[doctorzlo]

I think some very good insight can be found from the following two blog entries that SiamJai posted:

• Living the Thai way
• Working with Thai's successfully

[SusanSazzios]

Thanks Betti,

I wasn't looking for solutions or answers. I was looking for a little more insight, and the description of your experience does give some insight.

The point I was trying to make in my post has some relatonship to your experience, but I'm interested how a Thai person would have felt and reacted in a similar situation.

[reervieltnope]

At either extreme, I think that it is perilous to use your own cultural perception of the body language and voice tone to try to understand the situation. I couldn't agrre with you more mikenz66! P also believe that it goes deeper than that. There are innumrable instances of me having to explain people, situations, news item, etc, to my wife because the concepts of the actions don.t make any sense to her.

[!!Aaroncheg]

sorry Mike about not having been relevant enough, I just didn't want a good thread without any replies, no matter how "helpful" a reply it was.... I hope you'll get the insights you're out for.