[BUMbaronos]

1) To be stingy is a sign of good character, as it means you are self reliant even on a rainy day and I think every one should be this way.

I am not quite sure I agree with this statement. Thrifty would be more apt. Tightwad, tightfisted, go along with stingy.

When drinking with a group there is always one person who will happily take all the drinks offered by other members of the group but then has a real problem putting his hand in his pocket when it's his turn to buy. That's stingy.

My better half inteprets the above 3 expressions as; 1 & 3 stingy, 2 bird poo, literal meaning but taken to mean not real farang, joke, like a TV comedy, not necessarily bad but not to be taken seriously.

[verybigf]

Steve, it would help those of us who would like to explore the subtlties of these expressions with our à¾×è͹ (pêuan) or Ό (faen) to have them in Thai.

I hope this is correct:
Khi-niaw ¢Õéà˹ÕÂÇ kêe nĭeow
Khi-nok ¢Õ鹡 kêe-nók
Khi-ngok ¢Õ駡 kêe-ngók

My Thai is not great but I have a much greater chance of getting the pronunciation correct if I have the Thai characters

[qilmuz6v]

I don't know, but you have just demonstraited why I do not try to speak Thai, it never comes out sounding right, so is better to not do it at all than offend someone by accident..

[vladekad]

I think if you were to head a bit further East Steve you would find there is an underlying personality trait associated with Kii Ngok. Many even translate it as a cheating person. For example playing cards/gambling a when a person cheats or tries to they are often yelled at with this term, and I can assure you it is said many times with real anger and fists drawn.

I have yet to hear it said in a light sense, but then again I do not live in Thailand I only get exposure on the weekends. For now I would have to say that I agree with Mike it has a very negative context to it, whereas I don't think Kii Niaw is always a negative thing. In fact I have often seen people say Kii Niaw with a sense of humor to it, and at times in a complimentary way, similar to the way Paul feels about the term.


I like the topic though! Excellent choice and a great way to bring out true meanings of expressions used in real Thai culture. I do hope more members contribute to this one, especially more Thai members.

[anaisdannyxys]

Interesting stuff Steve

Well I see what you mean about possible positive connations but in my experience people aren't happy to be called §¡, it seems like it's almost always intended as an insult and as such provokes a defensive reaction. If they don't intend to insult and mean being tight with money in a wise way they seem to use »ÃÐËÂÑ´ (to economise;be frugal) instead. I guess even that could be taken both ways, like if your girlfriend said to you à¸Í¹Õè »ÃÐËÂÑ´¨ÃÔ§æ ¹Ð! ("you're really very careful with your money!") it would depend a lot on the context and tone of voice as to whether it was a compliment or insult.

True. Context and tone of voice are important. Speaking with loud voice seems to be offensive, and possible to have sarcastic response in return - "no need to talk that loud we are not in the rice field" means you come from bann nok (ºéÒ¹¹Í¡ = countryside) or worst case - no manners

Farang khi nok includes any Thais who really want to be or act like westerner, also look down on Thai culture. Sometimes they are called farang hua dum – ½ÃÑè§ËÑÇ´Ó (black head farang).

It is ok to say §¡ or ¢Õéà˹ÕÂÇ or ¢Õ鹡 or ¢ÕéËÁÒ to someone in your family or friends if they understand you are teasing them with love. But definitely NOT to strangers

[dittygari]

Well I have never herd these words in Thailand, but I quite often herd Thai people who could speak English referring to other Thai people being stingy in a derogative manner. In fact my former Thai girlfriend referred to me as being stingy, that usually makes me very proud, as to refer to me as being stingy is the ultimate compliment, as I'm proud that know one can get a free ride off me. But because my former Thai girlfriend was calling me stingy in a derogative manner, that made me even more stingy as I was not going to let her get away with her derogative attitude.
1) To be stingy is a sign of good character, as it means you are self reliant even on a rainy day and I think every one should be this way.
2) To be a spend thrift is very bad, as they always run out of money, and then revert to being a sponger
3) To be a sponge, is a result of being a spend thrift.

So if any one should be making derogative remarks, it should be about spend thrifts and spongers.

Now I get fed up with Thai people talking about the great character of stinginess in a derogative manner, it is either a sign of jealousy from people who are spend thrifts and spongers, or greed wanting some one else's, hard earned sacrificed saving, but not having to work for it.

[Fertionbratte]

Interesting stuff Steve
Let's start with a Farang Khi-ngok. This is similar in meaning to stingy but politer than the term 'khi-niaw'. 'Khi-niaw' translates to a 'tight-fist' while 'khi-ngok' also means someone who is stingy/frugal in a wise way ie...he doesn't go blowing away all his money on some saucy looking singer in a karaoke bar ie...he isn't stupid with his money. It has both good and bad connotations, depends on the user.
....
id like to hear of any experiences. Well I see what you mean about possible positive connations but in my experience people aren't happy to be called งก, it seems like it's almost always intended as an insult and as such provokes a defensive reaction. If they don't intend to insult and mean being tight with money in a wise way they seem to use ประหยัด (to economise;be frugal) instead. I guess even that could be taken both ways, like if your girlfriend said to you เธอนี่ ประหยัดจริงๆ นะ! ("you're really very careful with your money!") it would depend a lot on the context and tone of voice as to whether it was a compliment or insult.

[Khurlxgq]

Thought i would start up a spin off thread from the 'Farangs' one. Ought to post it over there on the 'Learning Thai Forum' but since i seldom go there i thought i'd post it here instead.

In Thai language we have both Farang Khi-nok and Farang Khi-ngok. However, since most Farangs can't make out the sound difference, they usually end up just hearing 'Farang Khi-nok' all the time!

So what is the difference between a 'Farang Khi-nok' and a 'Farang Khi-ngok'?

Let's start with a Farang Khi-ngok. This is similar in meaning to stingy but politer than the term 'khi-niaw'. 'Khi-niaw' translates to a 'tight-fist' while 'khi-ngok' also means someone who is stingy/frugal in a wise way ie...he doesn't go blowing away all his money on some saucy looking singer in a karaoke bar ie...he isn't stupid with his money. It has both good and bad connotations, depends on the user.

So, what does 'Farang Khi-nok' mean? Again, this is both good and bad, depends. It literally means 'Farang- bird poo-poo'. It can be used for a Farang who enjoys acting like the local Thais ie...he sits around drinking Beer Chang, eats fish balls on a stick, wears old pants or lazies around the farm. It doesn't mean though he is tight! Another good example is of English people. We are nicknamed 'Farang Phoo-Dee' (Hi-So foreigners) so any English person who comes to Thailand, wears fisherman pants, grows long scruffy hair and drives a cranky old motorbike is a Farang Khi-nok.

Farang Khi-nok can be both positive or negative. Positive in that the Farang is not acting socially superior to the local working class farmer and just loves the local Thai life. Negative in that he isn't embarrassed by such 'wayward' behaviour/dress or 'forgotten his roots'.

So, readers - have you had any experience with these terms?

Or, could you go even further and ask your Thai friend/partner for more definition and insight into these terms!?

I have read before that overseas Thais sometimes call their kids (brought up in the west) a Farang Khi-nok when they feel that their kids are acting completely like a local Farang instead of a Thai. Seems that they sometimes use the term in a derogatory fashion too. Im not sure though, but id like to hear of any experiences.