[CorpoRasion]

Hi Steve,

This comes to you rather late. But the 'Top Knot' is rather same as the way Brahmins among Hindu keep their shaved head in the temples. I think the origin may have something to do with that!

[cokLoolioli]

In addition so Stacker's comment it is similar to asking a Catholic why they use a rosary. Most will not know the answer. Many will say they have this or that religious belief/s, but sadly most do not really know what they believe exactly. I even seen a post on these forums with a young girl asking 'what do we [Buddhists] believe regarding the creation of mankind?'. So she is clearly claiming she is Buddhist, but has no idea what the answers to some of the most basic questions are. Not being critical of her if she still reads here, just pointing out that this type of struggle to 'fit in' exists in every part of the world. This is the result of following tradition and what you have been taught to do rather than forcing oneself to learn of what others do.

In sociology it is referred to as the trend of following the norms of society. Unfortunately it often has the effect of limiting [the followers] personal level of both knowledge and experience on the wider scale of the world itself. Exclusivist thoughts and ideas are present in most all religions too. So if a monk says this or that it must be taken as "gospel" (no pun intended).

I know a woman who paid some monks at her husbands funeral to tell her what to do to prepare him for his next life. The family was broke and had no income now. The monk charged her $1,000 USD then told her to put $2,000 in his coffin, along with as much gold as she could find (and many other items as well for various purposes), so the family took the last of their money put it into the coffin and had to borrow money from friends to pay the monk his dues. She explained she was short before borrowing the money from friends, but the monk explained her husband would be condemned if he was not paid.

So all in all, even if Thai people do not know the purpose they will still carry on with what it suggested, especially if it has anything to do with religious practices. The same way a 54 year old Catholic will still hold a rosary not knowing what it is for. It is just part of human nature to follow the group.

[exschke]

I would also say that in many cases it's possible that the original idea or intention behind a custom or ritual has simply been forgotten or lost altogether, i.e., there is no way of tracing it back exactly? not necessarily in this case, but in general.
(it's strange that shaving the hair is an act of self-denial or sacrifice of some kind across cultures. must be connected to renouncing vanity :-) but I have no idea about the one bit that's left there to grow. just guessing here, basically :-) )

[cokLoolioli]

Excellent theory! One that could be easily at the roots.

[exschke]

found this below just know and remembered the recent thread back here.

http://www.sriwittayapaknam.ac.th/topknot.html

[ChrisGoldstein]

You can not ever believe a farang monk or as I believe,,Any man of the cloth, no matter what cloth it is..

I wonder if one of them monks in Detroit were named Stephen Segal, He think he is a monk, From what I have heard from folks that worked for him up at Yreka California where he bought a lot of property,, He is one snakey dude.

[cokLoolioli]

No the monks were from Columbus & Detroit. I only named a couple things. There were about 15-18 different items that had to be placed in the casket prior to burning according to them. Each item represented something. They had to put the money in so he would be rich in his next life, gold so that he would immediately have enough to as a down payment for building materials on his 'new house'. Several pounds of rice so he wouldn't get hungry, some small threads for him to make a fishing net on his journey so that he could catch fish as soon as he arrives. Some tied string (I don't remember why), a pillow so he could go to the temple right away upon arrival. Several other things I don't remember too.

The other items and their relation were just as ummm... subjective to which monk they asked. It reminds me when my aunt's husband left her for another woman. She paid many hundreds of US dollars for a monk to 'get him to come home'. She handed him the cash, he counted it & then he lit a candle. He chanted for about 3 minutes, made some strange faces and then handed her a flower and one of the candles he had lit. Then told her 'his spirit is too strong, he will never come home', and suggested another man's name for help (the other guy was about $1200USD) and he got up and walked out the house, got in his truck and drove away.

All the while he forgot to give her the money back, she still has the candle probably because it is the most expensive candle she ever paid for. She was naive enough to pay the other guy for his services with the same result. That was in Atlanta, Georgia.

One of the Lao guys I know has a tattoo on his back, it was suggested by a monk for protection. He had paid the monks for the design and ink. Right in the center of the temple the tattoo is damaged though, on the left side too. You know what happened? The left side is from shrapnal the damage in the center is from a bullet that went into his spine. So much for the protection huh?

[cokLoolioli]

Yes, I think that is what started this thread, unless Steve was talking about the article Gor had wrote about actually getting his own done.

[ChrisGoldstein]

Thats to bad,,kinda makes you question the integrity of all religions doesn't it.
Next thing you will be hearing of monks molesting children like some other religions.

But after you see monks doing things that they are not supposed to be doing it has already made me wonder about them.

[ChrisGoldstein]

He has the one with one on each side,
I asked her what it was for and she told me "It is a voodoo thing" she says that about spiritual stuff,,she said that the child had been sickly as a baby and a monk told them that he should have that style, so thats what he's got.

I can't believe the part about the monk telling a widow to put all that stuff in with her husbands body,,Must have been a monk in the USA that did that. Specially since it was in US dollars. Where did it happen at,,Cleveland???

[cokLoolioli]

You can not ever believe a farang monk or as I believe,,Any man of the cloth, no matter what cloth it is...

The monks were both Thai & Lao. None were farang, in fact the monk that worked for 3 minutes and made $500+ was only in the USA for 4 weeks before going back home to Thailand.

[CKDIWEQ]

Both are right from what I have learned, as for the Thai not knowing, well get used to that feeling, it will likely come up often.

First it does depend greatly on the family and their beliefs. Secondly many often choose to keep the top knot because monks will often reassure them that it will serve to keep the boy healthy, and or make them healthy.

[Inenuedbabnor]

Gor translates it as a top knot. Its when the family take their kid to the temple and have his head shaved but leave a bit and just let it grow and grow.
Ive asked lots of Thais what exactly is it for but i always get a variety of answers.
Two common answers are one he was sick and the monk told the family to have the son where a top knot so his health would get better.
Second is that it just depends on the family's beliefs.

The Thais dont even seem to know, can anyone out there give me a clear knowledgable answer to the tradition/history concerning the 'Top Knot'