[Liskaspexia]

Quote[/b] ]Seeker, you're the one who subtitled a thread "Stuff that won't make it to farang media". I was just wondering if you actually had any such stuff to share.

Yes, I do. (This supposed to be just the first one, but offical news just confirmed it anyway) All in good time though. I intend this topic to be a collection of such stories, but to keep it focused, we will discuss only one at a time. Since the tsunami events are pretty much the main events of today, the other things can wait until this one settles down.

Despite the way it appears now, actually I'm quite happy the way this thread is going. After all, it would be really boring if everyone had the same opinion. The topic reached "red folder status" pretty quickly, which means, people are interested. The more discussion it generates and the more perspectives we'll see, the better.

[Liskaspexia]

Trangam, I'm glad you joined the discussion. Great post as usual.
I agree about people being helpful on the innocent level, and that knowledge and circumstances can - and do corrupt it. What surprised me is your mentioning of this "feudal threat". Though you explained, I'm not sure I understand it clearly. How is it working in India? Why are colonized countries more prone to it than traditionally "free" countries? I'd like to know more about this theory.

[HagsPusia]

Mike, I enjoyed your comments, and trangam's as well.

Quote[/b] ]'The Bridge Over The River Kwai'. Without this movie, I doubt many people would visit, as there are plenty of WWII memorials in the west too. The tourist authorities and guidebook writers realise the tourists want to know and see the true story behind the movie, so that is what they focus on.

History often has a funny way of reporting the "true story", depending on who is telling it and why. The following quote is from www.seat61.com/Thailand.htm

Quote[/b] ]There is a small technical problem with the Bridge over the River Kwai: It doesn't actually cross the River Kwai..! Pierre Boulle, who wrote the original book, had never been there. He knew that the 'death railway' ran parallel to the River Kwae for many miles, and assumed that it was the Kwae which it crossed just North of Kanchanaburi. He was wrong - It actually crosses the Mae Khlung. When David Lean's blockbuster came out, the Thais faced something of a problem. Thousands of tourists came flocking to see the bridge over the River Kwae, and they hadn't got one..! All they had was a bridge over the Mae Khlung... So, with admirable lateral thinking, they renamed the river. The Mae Khlung is now the Kwae Yai ('Big Kwae') for several miles north of the confluence with the Kwae Noi ('Little Kwae'), including the bit under the bridge.

[7kitthuptarill]

I see what both sides of the issue are saying.

I agree with both sides, On the media here, they did show the Europeans specifically interviewed on Fox News was Italian and French tourists lying on the beaches of Patong. I was disgusted by the actions, one video showed two Thai citizens looking at them (one being a soldier). The News cut the clip and stated that through the devastation it is still a beautiful place. That in no way harms Thailand financially.

So not harming Thailand financially how does it? Certainly the morale! When the morale of a land is hurt it often leads to de-sensitizing on a large scale. But if morale and it's effects were really the issue, then I can think of a major issue in Thailand that could put an end to the same thing? How de-sensitizing is that?

You can't thrive on tourism without the negative impacts that come with outsiders. The same way the USA can't be the size it is without it's economy affecting other parts of the world. Or Iraq having terrorists murdering the people who are begging (70% of the country) for a democracy, while claiming they are doing it out of love for their people. And as they say in English you can not have your cake and eat it too.

The media here in the US has always been the citizens being the focus. Collectively from government sources alone there has been sent 3.6B USD, and that does not go to the tourists. Nor does that figure count private groups/clubs, charity organizations, businesses, individuals, private relief programs, or corporations. That is only money from other governments.

I agree completely with the statement ' Do you not expect the Thai people to care for the guests first?'. If a major natural disaster took place in Sweden, doesn't everyone agree that the tourists and business men would be cared for first?!!

Naturally that is how nearly any country would handle things, and you can bet that if Sweden were to do such, the Swedes too would feel betrayed.

So there are two sides, and arguing does no good for either. Perhaps the censorship is a good thing in this time of need Seeker. Let the people feel how they feel, all the outsiders understand it is the mourning talking. Two years down the road when the vast construction, repair of facilites and utilities is nearing completion, everyone will see through the negative feelings they had when they initially suffered the loss.

In the meantime, why would anyone feel the need to try and seperate the bonding that is rapidly taking place for the goal of helping them help themselves.

[Liskaspexia]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps the censorship is a good thing in this time of need Seeker.

One of my strongest beliefs is freedom - and this includes the free flow of information, anytime, anywhere. Censorship only breeds half-truths and misunderstandings. For full communication we will need the good, the bad and the ugly, Stacker. As much as I disagree with many happenings in the world, not talking about them doesn't have any benefit. Silence is not the answer.

With regards to the current situation, all websites and other media are full of the fluffy stuff - which is nice for the soul, makes us feel comfy, but hardly gives the entire picture. I don't see any benefits of looking at it through rosy glasses.

[TiepayWrary]

I am also a member of another webboard focused on Thailand. Pehaps you have heard of it, www.thaivisa.com. There was a popular disscussion going on earlier this week about how big media has been misrepresents the truth of the situation and made it seem that Thailand has been more devistated than it acutally has. The admistrators of the board cited some examples of newspaper articles. Some of these articles would have you believe that Phuket was all but completly destroyed. Another example the forum member took note of was the fact that alot of reporters, when reporting about the Patong area, were doing there reports from a garbage disposal facility. In all honestly I don't know how much of what I read on their website is factional. What happend was, truly, one of the greatest natural disasters in recoreded history. But, I don't think that any of us can denie the tedency of Big Media to make things look worse than they are.

[Liskaspexia]

Yeah, I'm on that expat forum too, and read that topic. It coincides with what I read in the Bangkok Post today. "Bad news sell" lamented an interviewee, a shop owner. Naturally, these people want business back as soon as possible. Basically, he wanted the media to stop reporting body counts and silence any reports that may paint the area negatively.

Sure, some media outlets go overboard, trying to increase ratings with sensationalistic coverage, but that's the minority, IMO. People do need to know the body counts and do need more aid, distributed more effectively. Many are still looking for missing friends/relatives.

I think that sweeping problems under the rug and turning media coverage into a huge advertising for the hotel resorts and businesses is not a good idea. Taking care of immediate needs of the victims should come first - merchants come second.

[7kitthuptarill]

I truly feel the merchants will benefit in the long run, and as you mention Seeker take care of the true victims. Victims meaning injured and not the possiblity of damaging a P&L statement for a cafe.

You say rose-tinted,yet I mentioned how the media is covering the farang on the beach and the bodies of the children scattered through the debris both. Rose-tinted in the farang getting medical treatment, before a Thai person? As mentioned I am certain it has happened.

Too though I have seen on the news white people who lost their mates because their mate tried to save Thai women & children. I seen the help centers telephones being manned by nearly 100% non-Thai's. I think a very large portion of the outsiders who have been to the hospital's are returning the favor by extending their stays and helping friends.

Then we have the men on the beaches lol, those are quite likely the farang who stay in Thailand year round, and view themselves as above the rest, and spend their weekends in PatPong endulging.

I don't think it is as rose-tinted as you feel for this particular case. CNN interviewed two Frenchmen who saved 12 Thai lives, and spoke highly of them, after they saved the people and one got a cast on his arm, they are helping dig through the ruins in search of survivors, and carrying the dead. The US has no reason at all to speak highly of the French, it is very clear in the media and their protests that they greatly dislike the USA. It was simply unbiased news.

The biased news examples we have are in the USA where the democrats seem to have more control over the media than the republicans. Everytime someone dies in Iraq we get a big update on the news for 6-9 hours lettings us know and then it is on the headlines of the newspapers the next day. Why? Because Bush went to war! That is the only reason, it is not out of regard for human life. If it were then where are the daily tolls on the people murdered by drunk drivers from the night before nation-wide. How many drowned yesterday in the USA? You know that year round in the USA more people drown daily than soldier die in Iraq? How do you drown in January &February? Ohhh forbidden apparently they are to post how many terrorists were taken into custody or killed daily in Iraq. That number is not important it would make it appear as though we are getting to the goal.

Some things are biased, but I really don't think the media coverage has been too far farang. At least it isn't here. But you were talking about Thai media right?

There are many things large and small that silence is truly the answer. A few:

1. Your favorite cousin marries an alcoholic that has been known to smack his girlfriends. Yet you still hug her and tell her you are happy for her, all while being upset at the choice.

2. Your child has a D- on a Science paper you helped her study 2 hours for. Frustrated she wrote answers different from what she answered when she got them correct while studying, you smile and tell her good job.

3. Your wife after 3 children puts on a dress that is too tight... well you know how that ends if you are honest.

How bout bigger?

The Catholic church telling the public the real number of people they have made sign a gag order in exchange for cash, in regards to the priest and their 9 year old son.

The USA being honest with how many illegal aliens reside in this country.

The far Eastern European governments explaining exactly how many nuclear arms they have sold on the black market.

I really think it is a good idea to keep many things undiscussed. Feeling slighted by the very people who will be fixing some of your largest problems is one of them. Not for my sake, but on the larger scale, what kind of world would we be in if everyone had everything disclosed to them. A world of panic and chaos, not too mention even more segragation and rascism than we have now.

[opelayday]

Hi Seeker, glad you think it'd be boring if everyone had the same opinion as I think ours are certainly quite different on this topic ! I reckon we'll probably end up having to disagree as on the 'British couple shot dead in Thailand' thread a while back.

Quote[/b] ]To be honest, I'm not surprised that you don't see this tension amongst the Thai you know. I didn't sense any of it either. Like I said, my sister informed me about it. I don't think any outsider could possibly sense any of this, unless the name's Andrew Biggs - maybe. Remember how careful Thais are when it's about expressing resentment, or any negative feelings for that matter!

I'm not too sure what to make of this. Is the implication being that, unlike Andrew Biggs, I don't speak Thai well enough to understand ? Not that I'm claiming I do speak as well as he does of course, but I think I can speak at a passable level. Or is that I lack the necessary cultural understanding to feel this supposed growing resentment amongst my friends and people I know ? I'm not sure why'd that be the case, they haven't been shy in the past of criticising either their own or foreign countries if the feel it's deserved.

Quote[/b] ]Don't kill the messenger, Mike. The actions that discriminate and put the Farang in a special status on the expense of the locals, those have the potential to widen the rift between the two groups. We just report it as we see it.

But you rephrased what is essentially a personal opinion of you and/or your sister as fact, and are using a "don't shoot the messenger" argument to get around having to justify or provide evidence to back-up this opinion. I don't think my statement about creating an unnecessary/unwelcome rift is shooting the messenger - it's just I simply don't think it's true that there are these widespread resentment feelings that you're claiming, and by being the 'messenger' and proclaiming that there is it's then IMHO sowing the seeds of tension unnecessarily. To take another example, supposing I made statements like "There is growing feeling amongst white South Africans that apartheid should be reintroduced" or "There is a growing feeling amongst Muslims in America that the September 11th attacks were justified" - wouldn't you agree they can create tension ? There's no evidence to back them up but if presented as simple fact and left unchallenged, they would have the potential to colour the opinion of anyone reading of white South Africans or Muslims in America.

Quote[/b] ]Things like this will not only alienate the locals from us, but also reassure the VIP status of foreigners, justifying even more 'VIP' prices for the goods and services that we pay for. This is no big deal for tourists, for many of whom the prices are still considered low, and they go home after a short time anyway. However, it is gonna be a big deal for expats who live on local terms and local wages here - for years. Just one side effects that will linger around, IMO.

Maybe there is resentment and alienation in the part of Thailand that you're living in, I don't know, and obviously you're entitled to your opinion if you feel there is. But I don't think either of us (or indeed, any individual ordinary Thai citizen for that matter) can speak for the Thai population as a whole on the matter, which was why I objected to your original statement as an overly broad generalisation. My experience, for what it's worth, is almost the complete opposite - I haven't sensed rensentment at all, but rather a feeling of people being brought closer together by a shared tragdey and of willingness to help each other out. The Thai ¹éÓ㨠'nam jai' spirit is well known and I think the actions of Thai people have been a great credit to them internationally, but there are plenty of tourists in Phuket helping out too. I'm not sure if you've donated blood yet, but if so I'm sure you've seen the large queues of both Thais and foreigners waiting to donate there too responding to the urgent appeals. Stacker cited other similar instances too. I think actions like these haven't gone unnoticed by the Thai public or media, and that one of the few good points of this disaster could be warmer relations between Thais and foreigners here.

I'm not even sure the argument that foreigners being given special treatment would result in resentment makes sense either - after all, it wasn't the foreigners who chose their treatment or who dictated the treatment the villagers should receive. If there's resentment it should be directed towards the government or local officials.

Quote[/b] ]Interestingly, I took the offical's words as just another lame government excuse. After all, the help is only meager for locals, but seems to be extremely generous when it comes to tourists and the like. Just as the article said, this comes out most visibly in Thailand, but the same thing is happening in other disaster-affected countries as well.

As for whether the priority treatment of some of the tourists is offical policy or as a result of disorganization, well after working as a volunteer translator for a government department for the last few days translating a fair bit of stuff related to the tsunami and related procedures, I can't say I've come across anything to support that. There are seperate procedural guidelines for Thai citizens and foreigners, but it seems all practical matters really (eg for a Thai citizen to collect the corpse of a relative, they need to present amongst other things their ID card and House Registration Certifcate - obviously foreigners won't have either of these so there are seperate guidelines). Also, some procedures reflect the different needs that Thais and foreigners are likely to face - eg. foreigners are in a land where they don't speak the language, may not know anyone and are likely to want to leave Thailand to get back home as soon as possible. Thai survivors on the other hand don't have the language problem and may well have friends/relatives elsewhere in the country, but need more long term aid as they may have lost their house or livlihood as a result of the situation. I met plenty of people are working just about round the clock to try and get these things properly setup for the benefit of all concerned, I think it reflects just what a task they have facing them and far from making 'lame excuses' they are just telling the truth about the situation.

Quote[/b] ]Won't see me bragging about it often, but until recently I had the opportunity to work from half a dozen guidebooks (including the aforementioned Rough Guide) and numerous brochures about Bangkok - which include excursions to Kanchanaburi. I wasn't impressed with their coverage, like I said. But I left the possibility open for exceptions: "Open any guidebook, there are likely to be pages written about..." so, there.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused by this. Your point originally was the guidebook coverage of Kanchanaburi memorials showed people don't care about large number of Asian deaths, but do care about much smaller number of foreign ones. My points were: 1) that the Kanchanburi example is not really representative, and 2) Other examples like Cambodia showed the opposite. I'm not really show how writing basically "I only said 'likely to be', so there" refutes this ?

Quote[/b] ]If I were to construct an offical news report, I'd worry about PC language and all-inclusion. But think about it, how would it sound like? We cannot say "tourists", because expats and other kinds of visitors were affected as well. One "feasible" option would be: 'all persons of foreign origin positioned at given location at the time of the event', to be all-inclusive and most neutral - and dry and boring like a police report. Instead, I picked the most profilic group, and you really can't say it's not the truth, can you? Revellers were amongst the VIP-treated tourists/expats/etc. too.

But isn't this a bit like saying the truth is too boring for your liking, so you're spicing it up with more controversial words whether accurate or not ? True, not everyone is a tourist but calling them tourists, as just about every news source does, is a lot more representative and a lot less loaded than 'revellers'. Many of the dead/seriously injured were children and eldery couples - hardly your typical partygoers - as they were the most vulnerable and least able to escape. Most of the dead were also killed at Khao Lak - mainly a relatively quiet wildlife resort / natural park - rather than Phuket also

Quote[/b] ]They portray it as a local-vs.-foreigner situation, and in Thailand this becomes Thai-vs.-foreigner, naturally. AFAIK there is no news about how rich locals are treated, so we can only speculate. If we consider the two-tiered price system as an example, you won't see the rich locals grouped together with the (considered-to-be-rich) Farang. When it comes to the bill, discrimination is going by face, not by the size of the wallet. So, IMO it is fair to assume it goes the same way about the current situation.

I think it's just common sense that the rich and/or famous Thai citizens would receive better treatment isn't it ? HRH Princess Ubolratana was one staying at an affected resort in Khao Lak, and what kind of treatment do you think she received ? If influential businessmen were treated badly too I think we'd be hearing a lot more complaints about it in the Thai media than we are (they seem used to getting their own way!). I think treatment in this case was probably based on location rather than race - ie. anyone on Patong beach was put in the good shelters there and those unfortunate enough to be in the remote fishing villages had to put up with less than satisfactory shelters. Perhaps the relative remoteness of affected villages and difficulty in accessing the affected fishing villages as compared to the very easy access to Phuket played a part too, I don't know. Not that I'm saying the poor are any less deserving of treatment, but Thailand is hardly the only place in the world where the rich are treated better than the poor.

[Roorseprate]

Having lived in Japan for a few years, I found, they were very bios to there side of the story about world war 2, it seemed completely different from the American view or the Australian view. I think censorship, is always bios towards the country that is telling it.

[opelayday]

Hi Seeker,

Quote[/b] ]Most recently I heard from my sister that there is a growing resentment amongst Thai people about the way help is administered to the victims of the southern disaster. More specifically, they are frustrated that way too much attention is paid to helping Farang victims, neglecting the needs of the Thai. In other words, when it comes to distributing medical supplies and other stuff, it's "Farang first - Thai second", according to the complaint.

I think say "growing resentment amongst Thai people....they are frustrated that way too much attention is paid to helping Farang victims" is a pretty sweeping generalisation to make. Like you, I am in Thailand too and have not detected this kind of tension amongst people I know. I think statements like this have the potential to drive an artifical rift between Westerners and Thais and at a time when no-one needs it.

More likely I think, as the official in the article jaibaan linked to suggested, the situation is because of sheer confusion and disorganisation at the result of a tradgey far greater than anything that ever hit Thailand before and more than anyone imagined. After all, just about every other country in the region is having similar problems getting aid to it's citizens as quickly as they'd like.

I don't see it in a "Thai vs Farang" light as you're suggesting at all. Even if there is a deliberate policy to give higher priority to tourists (which is far from clear) if anything, it would seem to me it's "rich vs poor" and "high profile vs unknown" rather than "Thai vs Farang" as many of the Thai victims are poor fisherman. I would find it very hard to believe that there's some quasi-apartheid system in hospitals and shelters etc where they would treat the backpackers but would ignore the rich Bangkok businessman on Phuket on business.

Quote[/b] ]Open any guidebook, there are likely to be pages written about the heroic demise of the POWs, while the Asian laborers are lucky to be mentioned in a footnote. One hundred-thousand koolees die, who cares, right?

I'm not sure if this is true or not as I haven't got a guidebook to hand. Even if it is though, I think it's a bit of an misleading example really, as the memorials at Kanchanburi are primaily sustained by tourism based on 'The Bridge Over The River Kwai'. Without this movie, I doubt many people would visit, as there are plenty of WWII memorials in the west too. The tourist authorities and guidebook writers realise the tourists want to know and see the true story behind the movie, so that is what they focus on. I don't think you can generalise from this that people don't care about the Asian deaths - try, for example, looking in a Cambodia guidebook for the masses of coverage of deaths due to the Khmer Rouge. Indeed, much of Cambodia's tourist industry relies on the fact that the tourists do care about their violent history.

Quote[/b] ]What does this have to do with the above? Well, I just find it strange that proper respect is paid to the POWs - people who came here on "kill or to be killed" terms to begin with - while the innocent civilians who also died by this forced labor are so rudely neglected - just because they are Asians.

I think it's human nature that people are always more concerned and interested about their own kind, and of people they feel a connection to. We on this board may feel just as much if not more sympathy for the Thai victims of the tsunami as westerners, but then we've all got an affinity for Thailand and it's people. Anyone without this affinity and who's never been to Thailand would find it hard to feel as much sympathy as for a victim as for someone from their own country. I don't think it's unique to western culture - many Thais couldn't tell you offhand what day the planes flew into the World Trade Center for instance, as it simply doesn't have the same importance to them that it does to westerners.

To take another example, I doubt many Westerners (or Asians for that matter) know much about the millions who've died in the Congo in recent years for instance, or could even find it on a map. That's many times more victims than this tsunami, but if you've never been there, never met anyone from there and don't feel any connection to it then it's hard to be as concerned. It might not be right but unfortunately it's human nature to be like that.

Quote[/b] ] But somehow this just doesn't appeal to me when it comes to depriving local victims for necessities so that revellers get comfy.

Hold on a second, when did they become "revellers" ? It wasn't like it struck the full moon party or something. Many victims were young children and elderly couples. I don't think it does your argument any favours to switch to a loaded and (IMHO) inaccurate word like that instead of "tourists" or something more neutral. After all, it could easily have been you, me or anyone who's ever been to a beach in Thailand who was caught up in it.

[QbCp7LaZ]

I found one story on this in western media (below), but it was only after reading this thread that I was made aware of the situation and did a search. Previously, I hadn't seen or heard anything about it in the print or TV news media.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...illagers_x.htm

edited:

Here we go - first front page (Yahoo.com) placement I've seen for this story just showed up.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....victims

[TiepayWrary]

Non underground news (a story I saw on the CNN channel while at work):

Phuket locals upset tourist have retured to the beach while country is still coping with tradegy.

This is a difficult one. I can understand the viewpoints of both parties here. Had it been my home town I too would be upset that the outsiders are living it up on the beach while I am still cleaning up my home, dealing with the loss of my friend(s), family member(s), or trying to find another place to work (because my previous place of employment is no longer standing).

Then again I could understand that tourist who have already spent the money on the vacation that they planned ahead would not wish to cancel their reservations, and just go ahead with their plans.

This is a sensitive issue. I myself, had I been scheduled to arrive just days after this catastrophe, would not cancel my airline reservations. I would take this oppertunity to lend a helping hand in this nation of which I am often a guest in.

[Liskaspexia]

Quote[/b] ]Like you, I am in Thailand too and have not detected this kind of tension amongst people I know.

Hi Mike, nice to see you around too. How is Thailand? Which part are you at right now? To be honest, I'm not surprised that you don't see this tension amongst the Thai you know. I didn't sense any of it either. Like I said, my sister informed me about it. I don't think any outsider could possibly sense any of this, unless the name's Andrew Biggs - maybe. Remember how careful Thais are when it's about expressing resentment, or any negative feelings for that matter!

Quote[/b] ]I think statements like this have the potential to drive an artifical rift between Westerners and Thais

Don't kill the messenger, Mike. The actions that discriminate and put the Farang in a special status on the expense of the locals, those have the potential to widen the rift between the two groups. We just report it as we see it.

Quote[/b] ]While foreign survivors of the ocean's onslaught were put up in an international school complete with beds, TVs and Internet connections, Thais from a devastated fishing village slept outside, many without blankets, burning wood to keep warm and keep mosquitos at bay.

Things like this will not only alienate the locals from us, but also reassure the VIP status of foreigners, justifying even more 'VIP' prices for the goods and services that we pay for. This is no big deal for tourists, for many of whom the prices are still considered low, and they go home after a short time anyway. However, it is gonna be a big deal for expats who live on local terms and local wages here - for years. Just one side effects that will linger around, IMO.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure if this is true or not as I haven't got a guidebook to hand.

Won't see me bragging about it often, but until recently I had the opportunity to work from half a dozen guidebooks (including the aforementioned Rough Guide) and numerous brochures about Bangkok - which include excursions to Kanchanaburi. I wasn't impressed with their coverage, like I said. But I left the possibility open for exceptions: "Open any guidebook, there are likely to be pages written about..." so, there.

Quote[/b] ]Hold on a second, when did they become "revellers"? It wasn't like it struck the full moon party or something. Many victims were young children and elderly couples. I don't think it does your argument any favours to switch to a loaded and (IMHO) inaccurate word like that instead of "tourists" or something more neutral.

If I were to construct an offical news report, I'd worry about PC language and all-inclusion. But think about it, how would it sound like? We cannot say "tourists", because expats and other kinds of visitors were affected as well. One "feasible" option would be: 'all persons of foreign origin positioned at given location at the time of the event', to be all-inclusive and most neutral - and dry and boring like a police report. Instead, I picked the most profilic group, and you really can't say it's not the truth, can you? Revellers were amongst the VIP-treated tourists/expats/etc. too.

Quote[/b] ]More likely I think, as the official in the article jaibaan linked to suggested, the situation is because of sheer confusion and disorganisation at the result of a tradgey far greater than anything that ever hit Thailand before and more than anyone imagined.

Interestingly, I took the offical's words as just another lame government excuse. After all, the help is only meager for locals, but seems to be extremely generous when it comes to tourists and the like. Just as the article said, this comes out most visibly in Thailand, but the same thing is happening in other disaster-affected countries as well.

They portray it as a local-vs.-foreigner situation, and in Thailand this becomes Thai-vs.-foreigner, naturally. AFAIK there is no news about how rich locals are treated, so we can only speculate. If we consider the two-tiered price system as an example, you won't see the rich locals grouped together with the (considered-to-be-rich) Farang. When it comes to the bill, discrimination is going by face, not by the size of the wallet. So, IMO it is fair to assume it goes the same way about the current situation.

Quote[/b] ]if you've never been there, never met anyone from there and don't feel any connection to it then it's hard to be as concerned

.
Many people haven't been to the US, quite a few feel negative about it (Stacker could tell stories, lol), and yet, the overwhelming reaction to 9/11 during the time it happened, and the days thereafter, showed that unconditional care and concern is part of human nature indeed, regardless of culture or nationality.

[HagsPusia]

From the BBC today:

Quote[/b] ]Thais 'under strain'

Some Thais have complained that towns like Baan Nam Khem have been ignored, while the international relief effort has focused on foreign tourists.

They say that foreigners were put up in an international school with beds and internet connections, while Thais were left to sleep outside.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra responded to the criticism, saying: "Obviously we have to look after the foreigners but our priority now will be to help Thais find shelter.

"They are under a lot of stress and strain, sleeping in temporary shelters."

However he also vowed to help rehabilitate tourism, one of Thailand's biggest money earners.

[Liskaspexia]

Quote[/b] ]Phuket locals upset tourist have retured to the beach while country is still coping with tradegy.

Frightened_Farang, I read something like this too. Much like you, I have a difficulty to accept this too. If you have seen the images of the distruction, witnessed the plight and emotional distress of the affected, it is hard to be sympathetic about some who carelessly sunbathe and fondle bargirls - when perhaps just around the corner people are desperately trying to retrieve corpses of their relatives from the rubble.

The excuse "they paid for the fun already" just doesn't hold water, IMO. Many victims paid with their lives. But staying away would be not good for the economy either, which needs recovery. I think the best solution would be to

Quote[/b] ]take this oppertunity to lend a helping hand in this nation of which I am often a guest in.

Very nicely put.

[7kitthuptarill]

As a side-note, 3 replies all addressing Seeker, it seems so harsh yet he knows it is in love

The side-note... Seeker you mention your sister informed you, while I am certain such feelings do exsist (it is only natural in a time like this), I think it is very likely that is is the minority that have these feelings, let alone vocalize it. Certainly they are not with hostile intentions.

I think maybe she was testing your reaction to such a thought. My Thai friends and family are constantly doing such to everyone they know including me. Often my in-laws will ask me 'what is wrong with a 19 year-old wife for a 55 year-old man', or 'it's ok to not pay your taxes I think', all the while they disagree with both yet are simply awaiting my reaction.

Justa thought.

[HagsPusia]

I stopped by a bookstore this week. I looked at six more guidebooks - Fodor's, National Geographic, Insight Guide, Lonely Planet, Moon Guide, and Let's Go. All of them metioned figures for both allied POWs and Asians who died at the infamous "death railway". So I believe we can put the guidebook conspiracy theory to rest.

Nevertheless, I do not doubt there is some truth to the claim that western tourists received preferential treatment in wake of the disaster. While it's easy to say that all people should be treated equally in all situations, reality has a way of intruding on our version of a perfect world. Like it or not, we westerners are treated differently in many ways in Thailand, and the root cause boils down to the fact that we are generally better off financially and materially.

A case could be made that preferential treatment of farang victims actually increases the benefit to the poor local villagers in the long run, as those with means will be more likely to spend money and lobby governments for things like new infrastructure and warning systems. It's perhaps a bit of a stretch, and I'm not strongly advocating the case, but it's something to think about. But it is missing the point to characterize the westerners who received special treatment as those farang or those revellers, as if all of us don't benefit from preferential treatment in some situations. Of course, the other beneficiaries of preferential treatment of tourists are those who are involved in the multi-billion baht tourist industry, which includes a lot of modest-income Thai workers, as well as some ultra-rich players all the way to the top of the national government.

As far as the issue of tourists returning to the beaches, I guess it's kind of mai bpen rai to me. Sure, people should ideally be sensitive to their surroundings, and I wouldn't be doing it myself. However, I can imagine, for instance, some guys who don't care much about Thai language or culture, and came for a beach vacation. They're not doing any damage by lying on the beach, and with any luck they are spending extra money, some of which does end up in the pockets of the locals.

Quote[/b] ]it is hard to be sympathetic about some who carelessly sunbathe and fondle bargirls

I hope that those who choose to fondle bargirls will do so carefully.

[7kitthuptarill]

Quote[/b] (shuba @ Jan. 06 2005,22:28)]
I hope that those who choose to fondle bargirls will do so carefully.

Why? It is the same sick people who have infected them with STD's including HIV. AIDS didn't simply pop up on it's own in Thailand, it was carried to them by these drunkards who can't do what they want in their own land so they bring it to Thailand where they can get away with it. Fondling a different girl everynight (infecting them) and going home two weeks later. The plane ticket costing more than living the lifestyle they do in these areas.

[HagsPusia]

Quote[/b] ] Originally Posted by [b Quote[/b] (shuba @ Jan. 06 2005,22:28)]
I hope that those who choose to fondle bargirls will do so carefully.

Why? Because bargirls are human beings.

from dictionary.com

Quote[/b] ]fondle:

To handle, stroke, or caress lovingly.
To show fondness or affection by caressing.
v : touch lightly and with affection, with brushing motions