[opergolon]

I took four years of college Japanese and hang out with Japanese friends. When I did an internship in Japan, that was enough that I could usually make myself understood and get the gist of what was going on around me. Except in the dojo. Trying to understand "old man kendo" Japanese is worse than trying to understand "drunk with his mouth full" Japanese. As far as I can tell, during keiko, all Japanese words and phrases are pronounced as "chuh!"

When it comes to remembering and understanding technique names and other phrases, knowing Japanese helps quite a bit. Many times the translation doesn't convey some of the more subtle meanings of the original. I remember once a visiting sensei was explaing foot work in Japanese. The translator described the motion of the back foot as snapping it up to the right, but the Japanese explantion contained the idea of keeping it attached to the right.

And to pick up on what Confound wrote. Very few people in Japan speak English well. The annoying thing is that those very few people arn't the same as the very few people who think they speak English well. I was at a party and this man kept trying to tell me a story in very bad English, and I kept asking "Did you really mean ... ?" He never got the clue.

[Avoireeideree]

Originally posted by mingshi

A couple of times people had actually asked "Daiijobu ka?", and I've to say "i-i des" all the time (yeah the missed dou cuts on my thigh!!). I don't know if this is a "Japanese Complex" going on?
...........

They don't do that at Nenriki do they? lol

Hyaku

[Fausqueuego]

Yep, having a sensei / sifu who doesnt speak your native language doesnt help IMHO. My old Kung Fu sifu used to mumble a few things in half-English, to which we'd all nod, and pretend we'd understood....he'd demonstrate a technique by doing it once (or twice if you were lucky), and we'd try to copy him...often with comic results

I can vouch for how good it is to have someone explain in your native language "no, its more like _this_ than _that_, because...etc", and how much quicker you learn. I think its good to know the proper Japanese term for a technique, but its more important to understand how to do it properly.

I sometimes envy non-native English speakers though. English is becoming the universal 2nd language (blame America / computers / the fact that its easy...discuss), so if its not your first language, its the obvious choice as the most useful one to learn. As an English native - what do you pick? Most other languages arent that useful unless you're going to _that_ country, and lets face it, many are pretty tough to learn in comparison (any Thai speakers here?)



Dave

[bWn4h8QD]

sono toori desu!

Never a truer word was spoken Meng.


As for Katakana English, I have enough trouble keeping up with American 'English' sometimes...

[biannaruh]

Confound, see...um...the problem is you're practicing in Japan. I bet if you were practicing in America or somewhere else that they would speak english. But i'm sure you know that

I don't speak Japanese, if I have trouble speaking to someone who can't speak English well, I do my best to understand them. It's just life boys.

Uh Hagakure, about the KIDS not being well versed in your culture, I'm pretty sure that when i was 10 or so I didn't know what latin was.

[space-on-s]

What was said about France was true ! it is not that no-one speaks english in France, we just have the feeling it is rude not even to make an effort to communicate in the local language.
I think it is overtly naive to expect to learn something so fundamentally japanese as kendo purelly in english. just as it would be naive to expect to learn baseball in Europe without learning English (why we would do that is beyond me, but let's assume it for the sake of the example. ). it is true that English is becoming a de-facto vehicular language worldwide, nevertheless, the fact that some english speakers realise is that is complements but does not replace the other languages, and that to explore the culture of a given country and talk to the "locals", you'll still need other languages...
Don't get me wrong, i am the first one to wish that all these wonderfull kendo books were available in English and that all the sensei could communicate their wisdome to us more widelly (although in French would be even better of course...). But since it is not possible, we'll have to learn Japanese to accomodate the senseis and not the other way around, I'm afraid.
Antonin

[UMATURLIN]

Heh, my sensei is Australian so he explains to us in English.

Right now I am training in Malaysia with Toyoda Sensei and I am not used to his husky Japanese. Just the other day he was giving the command mai to the class and I didn't hear him at first...it was pretty funny when the person behind me stabbed me in the back of the neck...

He also explains his instructions in Japanese so I usually watch and follow...

My ex was japanese so I learned a little as well...

[gennick]

Hey guys,

I'm a foreigner to the country where I'm in right now. I came, and long before that, I know I've to speak and learn English. That's part of the education. Can I complain that "no one is speaking Cantonese here!!" or "their Chinese is really terrible"?? Things that's not of your culture you'll just have to learn. Now I always blame that my spoken English is really full of grammatical mistakes with an ugly Cantonese accent, which is something that cannot be demonstrated in this forum.

In my dojo here in UK they teach Kendo in English. The technical terms stay the same, like the regular Reigi and "Kagari keiko-----!!!!", but instructions are in English --"Hey Jenny don't do this...". What I find very interesting is that, although there's only a small number of kendoka who studied Japanese before, those who know do intent to think in Japanese during practice. Sometimes you'll notice by their Kiai. A couple of times people had actually asked "Daiijobu ka?", and I've to say "i-i des" all the time (yeah the missed dou cuts on my thigh!!). I don't know if this is a "Japanese Complex" going on?

I remember I saw some Taiwanese kendo visitors back in Hong Kong. During their warm-up when they do haya-suburi, they count in Mandarin!!

There is a education movement called "mother-language teaching" going on in Hong Kong. The officials say it'll be easier for student to understand the lessons in their mother language rather than in English. Still in a debate, which will go off-topic again if I went into the details, I don't know who's correct.

Anyway Kendo is one of the thing which motivates me to learn some proper Japanese, apart from understanding the dialogues in Manga/Anime.....

[soajerwaradaY]

One exception to the rule of Japanese-people-in-Japan-who-can't-speak-English is Miyasaka sensei, founder of the ANU Kendo Club in Canberra, now returned to Japan. Of course he has the advantage (some would say disadvantage) of having lived in Aus for a while. I last met him at the Summer Camp at Kitamoto, where he was one of the Camp translators. He speaks English better than most native speakers. I asked him where he got his beautiful accent from and he said his Dad used to play BBC lingaphone records to him as a small child!

Of course Shioiri sensei is the other one.

[CGH1KZzy]

*sigh*

Confound...if a Chinaman was in Canada and you were teaching him kendo, would it be fair for him to expect you to instruct him in Mandarin?

As the saying goes, when in Rome do as the Roman's do...

Japanese have a National Language and it is not English. Go to France and see how accomodating the french are to people who ask if they speak english. The majority of people will say no, even if that is not the case.

The Japanese Kendoka here in Malaysia go to great lenghts to explain in English...I greatly appreciate it. But I would not press them to do so.

Also beware, just because they don't "speak" english doesn't mean they don't understand. I've sat in meetings where the Japanese representitives have translators. People assume they don't speak english so they openly discuss their plans...surprising when they find that the old gentleman sitting across them is a Harvard or Oxford Grad.

I am note trying to pick a fight but at the same time, why should they put heavy emphisis on a language the majority will ever use? Imagine if Japanese was a compulsory second language in the States...how many Americans go to Japan.


Peace
Meng

[Janarealiti]

Amen to both Kent and Ben. I could not have put it better about people who speak english well here. It is true that some people speak beautifully, but they are rare finds indeed. People who speak a foreign language well in Japan are usually individuals whose parents either lived abroad, or spoke good english themselves.

About old man kendou japanese... i live in an area that is known for its retention of old, country japanese. my ojiisan sensei is sometimes completely incomprehensible, but after about 8 months, I:m starting to get the gist of what he says. he:s a man of few words anyway.

hagakure, about names... my kendou sensei still calls me 'sensei', because he can:t figure out how to say my name. one of the kanji on my tare uses an obscure reading for the character, so it usually gets mispronounced, turning my name into a spanish MAN's name. the kids find it hilarious. unfortunately, it confuses the poor old man even further, so he's dropped all attempts to use any of my proper names.

c

ps ~ excuse the erratic punctuation, this was typed on a japanese computer / keyboard (truly a monstruous thing... too many keys)

[Nurfzerne]

Sorry for the errors, I need sleep...

I am not trying to pick a fight but at the same time, why should they put heavy emphisis on a language the majority will ever use? Imagine if Japanese was a compulsory second language in the States...how many Americans actually go to Japan. I think the majority, in their lifetime, will never see the land of the rising sun.

Just like the majority of Japanese will not extensively use English.

Peace,
Meng

[jeni]

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