[Usesdiums]

I really think that's enough on this thread. It's really not going anywhere now and just generating bad feelings.

Time to stop.

[Zaebal]

all this wasted discussion and still no senseis...not a very efficient list so far

[Snitiendumurn]

Mark,

The answer is in your PM Inbox.

For everyone else, I am not going to identify the person who gave me reason to post this question. It would serve no purpose, and would only inflame an already regrettable exchange. Needless to say, it was done via PM, and I was not pleased with the way I was treated.

I remember a similar posting by Theodore in another thread, where he talked about having his knuckles rapped by the attending surgeon during a procedure. He dropped the retractor and walked out of the OR. He felt that the surgeon had not treated him like an adult, but rather like an unruly schoolboy. I'm not exactly a schoolboy myself, although I just graduated from college (again) 3 years ago. I'm not dropping kendo because of one person, but I don't have to stand for such treatment from anybody. My sensei doesn't treat me like that, so why should this person who doesn't even know me treat me in that manner?

Angry? You bet! Will I get over it? You bet! Does it matter to the rest of you? Not a bit! This was simply a catharsis for me, thank you all who participated.

[janeseymore09092]

As I said, it has come to mean that, but the original meaning had nothing to do with rank. It came from two ideograms that might be translated as, "One who is born before.

Likewise, the English word "moot" used to mean "debatable", but nowadays, it's used to say that an argument won't be tolerated or heard.

[Pdarasenko]

Isn't sensei just 5th dan or above??

[halfstreet]

I asked a simple, polite question via PM. I was given a rebuke, not once, but twice.

As for 5th dan and above, I have no problem calling them sensei. I have a problem with someone 5th dan and above who rebukes me for asking a polite, pertinent, simple question.

There's 2 sides to every story and you still didn't answer the question. Apparently you do have some problem with calling someone sensei since that's what the thread is all about. Twice? Didn't get it the 1st time?

[THOUTHCAW]

from one arrogant Clown

And a foul mouth one at that.

[carlsberg21]

Should we publish a list of sensei who subscribe to this forum? I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to anyone who claims that title.

How about not being disrspectful to anyone? That way you would be 100% sure of not offending the wrong people.

[CGECngjA]

Should we publish a list of sensei who subscribe to this forum? I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to anyone who claims that title.

According to Harutane Chiba Sensei, the literal translation of "sensei" is "one who is born before". Since I'm over 50, does that mean that I shouldn't call my assistant sensei, 6th dan, renshi, who is 38 years old a "sensei"? I know that the term has come to mean "teacher" or "instructor" or "guide".

As a side note, I seem to recall reading that if a person claims a title for themselves, then it's just a title. The title should come from those who are of greater experience than the person claiming the title, similar to being promoted. We aren't promoted by our peers or our juniors, but those who are senior to us.

i think that´s a chracteristicall western-kind of thinking...hey i´m 5th dan, that´s why i´m sensei....sure most of people use the term "sensei" for the teacher/instructor, but as you told, being a sensei means more than that. a sensei is a kendo instructor and a kendo-life-teacher at the same way. he shows you how to handle difficulties in kendo life...when you´re down or injured, missed a examination etc. ... than he gives you that kind of mental support you need.

being 6th dan or above doesn´t mean that you are a sensei, but it´s one of the requirements which have to be fullfilled becoming one. a sensei has to be experienced and having a knowledge of life.

being a 6th dan doesn´t mean much in japan, they have thousands of them, a 6th dan is "just" a sempai, but in europe it means a lot (the way is longer than in japan)

well i don´t think it´s necessary to make a list....because it isn´t really important....i learn from everybody sensei, sempai or kohai....everyone of them shows me a different way of looking.

cu

[Opislossy]

Finally you take this forum as a place to air your grief. With each post you protest more and more how you are an innocent. The above quote of the actual exchange does nothing to support your case. You now owe me apology and one to this forum also.

I'm with Jmarsten here..I don't see anything that's rude in the PM nor justify this thread.

Jakob

[replicaypu]

Now we have the other side of the story.

I was right, you do have bad kendo manners.

Hey-hey!...

...and you Sir, have the manners of an Ass...!

For someone who describes himself as 'kendo dan-more senior than most ' you seem like a bit of an ignorant shit to me... or should that be ignorant shit-Sensei...?

Just my own personal opinion man... from one arrogant Clown to another...

[avaicavum]

As for claiming the title... Where is that Zaitoichi Ryu sensei when you need him...

Seriously! I was about to get my wallet to see if I could buy a plane ticket to his dojo and practice his Ryu...

But as to Joe's question...I suppose it could help some people. Perhaps some of the new people who join KWF might not know who they're talking to.

[LoisCampon]

It seems that there is a personal issue going on here the details of which have not fully come to light. As such, I will issue a broad statement, which, as always, reflects my opinion only:

The term "sensei" is an honorific spontaneously granted to those who are experts in their particular field. Any teacher at any sort of school, regardless of level, should be called sensei. People who are recognized masters of their trade are also referred to as sensei; it is common to refer to a lawyer as sensei, doctors are sensei as well and it is not uncommon to refer to the head hair dresser in an hair salon as sensei as well.

There is no regulation of this term beyong the norms of social etiquette, and no written guidelines exist for the terms use in the application of kendo or a martial arts dojo. Students at junior high schools who have an adult kendo coach who is only shodan would refer to their coach as sensei. Children should refer to any adult of dan-rank who provides them with regular instruction as sensei as well. Any leader of a dojo or instructor at the dojo shold be referred to as sensei, unless otherwise wanted by the individual. People who are leaders of their dojo should (and do) further refer to other dojo leaders as sensei as well, even if their rank is lower than theirs.

Age does not really matter that much. I could see someone in their 50's calling someone in their 30's sensei. The prime rule here is the issue of "mastery of craft," and absent others of superior level in a particular dojo, the individual who provides the majority of the instruction and sets the schedule or training points should, in my opinion be refered to as sensei, regardless of age descrepancy. That would, at least, be the polite thing to do.

However, this is just my opinion on the matter.

[wmzeto]

Let see:

Marsten Sensei and Marsten Sensei
Genzwill Sensei
JByrd Sensei
Yamaguchi Sensei
Matsuda Sensei
Hyaku Sensei


I know many more are here but I don't remember

[Senasivar]

Let see:

Marsten Sensei and Marsten Sensei
Genzwill Sensei
JByrd Sensei
Yamaguchi Sensei
Matsuda Sensei
Hyaku Sensei


I know many more are here but I don't remember

I don't think they care about the list anymore. We should re-name this thread.
And I don't know any sensei so I'm not really a big help.

[Romobencience]

And a foul mouth one at that.

Hey-hey !

Why thanks Sensei... recognition at last...! But I fear that I have many years of hard training before I can attain the heights of your ignorance...

One can but dream...

[buIf6yoW]

Well, since you know only 1/2 of the story, I can see how you could feel you're qualified to comment on MY kendo manners.

I am mukyu!!!!!

Originally Posted by joekc6nlx
Jeff,

Are you or Curtis planning to attend the Summer Camp in Cincinnati next month?

Do you address Ariga sensei as Koki?


No, it's always Ariga sensei, even outside of the dojo. If you are asking if Koki Ariga is my sensei, yes, he is. Otherwise, I don't understand the question.

I believe you know Frank Victores, ask him to explain it to you.
No we are not coming to the camp. We will be in Ann Arbor. It is too much to do both.

Never mind, I get it. Forgive my familiarity, it won't happen again.
__________________
Joe
No where do I see any rebuke. One of my early kendo sensei was kyoshi nanadan and he had instructed us to call him Rod. Therefore one would surmise that this was the reigi in the Miami Valley dojo but by the answer above, cleary it is not.
By previous posts the following facts:
1. Nowhere did I say for you to call me sensei.
2. This was the 3rd time that this individual who earlier in the post acknowledges he knew full well both my brother's and my rank and had chosen to address us by our first name. I do not know this individual nor have I ever met him. Yet he does not even address me as Mr. but rather as his pal.
3. In an earlier post he shows that he has a problem with ranks as an enlisted man in the US Navy in dealing with officers.
4. His ego and pride have caused him to attack me when there was no reason to attack me. If he had talked with his sempai/sensei Frank Victores as I had suggested he would have learned something about kendo and reigi. It would have been pointless for me to try to explain proper reigi via e-mail. Rather I had hoped through personal contact he would gain knowledge.
5. He is 52 and I am 62, in other words I was 'born before' him. While he was in grade school I was serving in the armed forces of this county. So from my vantage point you are a "boot".
6. I have been awarded Kyoshi by the AUSKF and nanadan by the AJKF, and you sir, are mukyu.
7. I also have experienced first hand how Navy Chiefs treat seaman apprentice and others under their direction. Shame on you.
I did not perceive that you were intentionly rude to begin with but rather accepted that you as a mukyu did not know better. Alternately as I explained this could be how Ariga sensei runs the dojo and therefore you were acting accordingly to how you have been taught. However, you acknowledge that you full well knew both my brother's and my rank so one must draw the conclusion that you were knowingly rude.
Finally you take this forum as a place to air your grief. With each post you protest more and more how you are an innocent. The above quote of the actual exchange does nothing to support your case. You now owe me apology and one to this forum also.

[GitaraMoya]

Hey-hey!

Well, thank God that's all over...!

A draw... who could have hoped for a better result...!

See... it's amazing what a long way a little bit of patience and understanding will go... I think we have all learned so much from this thread...

Now, who else wants to be called Sensei...?

Perhaps we should all go home now...

[Ekzamenov]

Should we publish a list of sensei who subscribe to this forum? I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to anyone who claims that title.

According to Harutane Chiba Sensei, the literal translation of "sensei" is "one who is born before". Since I'm over 50, does that mean that I shouldn't call my assistant sensei, 6th dan, renshi, who is 38 years old a "sensei"? I know that the term has come to mean "teacher" or "instructor" or "guide".

As a side note, I seem to recall reading that if a person claims a title for themselves, then it's just a title. The title should come from those who are of greater experience than the person claiming the title, similar to being promoted. We aren't promoted by our peers or our juniors, but those who are senior to us.

This is an interesting thread that you started Joe-San !

But going back to your original post... Why?

cheers

[AngegepeM]

I asked a simple, polite question via PM. I was given a rebuke, not once, but twice.

As for 5th dan and above, I have no problem calling them sensei. I have a problem with someone 5th dan and above who rebukes me for asking a polite, pertinent, simple question.

I'm not going to say who it was, it's not necessary. The person who did it knows who they are.

I posted this thread because I wanted people to know that a feeling of "superiority" is present here on the forums. "I'm better than you because I'm such-and-such rank." If you feel it was out of line to post, why did you respond publicly to it? You could have PMed me and accomplished the same goal.

Since I'm probably not going to be on the forums much any longer, I'm not sure that it's all that important that you do respond.