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Old 11-22-2005, 08:00 AM   #1
Dstyeglm

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That is very true. I just wish that my friends realized that. Because I like Kendo and Anime and Japanes music and the fact that I don't act "black" enough, they think that I want to be Japanese. I know that they are just joking around and stuff, but it just gets on your nerves when they keep reminding me of it every day.
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Old 11-22-2005, 08:00 AM   #2
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I think that given enough experience with an activity, the culture that made it, the language used in it, and all that, I think that people can understand Kendo or any other activity. Understanding is not necessarily the issue. The thing is that your culture places different value on different things. So I can understand kendo, but I do not have to prescribe to certain aspects of it. For example, I love kendo and want to adhere to the customs of it as much as possible. I understand how some Japanese will go running over to the sensei at the end of practice and put away his bogu for him/her. I understand about the level of respect and thankfulness and custom there is in that action. However that not being a part of my own culture, I may not necessarily do it. Granted, I would do it when I am here out of politeness, but in America where that is not imortant to other people, it just won't get done. So it is not an issue of understanding, as much as it is an issue of whether or not your culture places the same value on those aspects of the art.

There is also the issue of whether or not your sensei are teaching you all the aspects of kendo, or just the hitting people part of it.
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Old 11-28-2005, 08:00 AM   #3
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You mean just because someone is Japanese (or this can carry over to if you have only visited) doesn't mean they can do Kendo, Judo, Aikido, Karate, and all sorts of nasty martial arts so you better not mess with them or they will kick you @$$?

Sorry, can't resist, I still run into people who out of sheer retardedness say stay away from him because he has been to Japan so he can kick you butt...
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:00 AM   #4
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Well, I guess you canīt fully understand at a hundred percent anything outside your own culture just as if you were a native.

I live in Argentina, and even if Iīve been exposed a lot to American (read: US) culture, I still donīt understand many of their customs like the love for chicken wings (eww, we throw them away here), washed beer and coffee, etc.

I donīt think an American could understand tango as I do, having been born and always lived in a city that breathes tango and takes it into your person at the level of the cadence of your accent... I also think neither me or an American or a Japanese could really understand the Spanish customs of bull fighting, bull running in San Fermín or the giant city-sized tomato-throwing parties they have...

In this line of thought, I donīt think we gaijin can truly really fully understand and incorporate kendo (or any other cultural aspect inherent to Japan) in the same way a Japanese would.

Sure, we can love it, dedicate our entire lives to it, master it with true profficency and even do it better than some Japanese. But aside from judging "better/worse", I think that itīs different than the native perspective. As much as we may like it, itīs not our own cultural heritage.

Cheers!
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Old 12-10-2005, 08:00 AM   #5
Promalada

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Can non-Japanese really understand Kendo as seen through Japanese eyes? Or is Kendo something subjective and unique to the individual?
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Old 01-14-2006, 08:00 AM   #6
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I think this is actually a very interesting thread. Can non-japanese truly understand kendo?

On a person to person basis I think there are individuals who do understand kendo or else websites and forums like this wouldn't exist. I can appreciate the dedication, honour, and tradition that goes into kendo.

In general however, I don't think non-japanese can. As Julian D said, can Americans understand tango as he does? Probably not, and that's just a product of how different societies are raised and act. In North America especially, I feel that there is a kind of all flash and no substance mentality and kendo is the exact opposite.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:00 AM   #7
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Keep the thoughts coming? If not I am gonna feel like an ass with the long post I just put through. :/
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:00 AM   #8
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Can non-Japanese really understand Kendo as seen through Japanese eyes? is it a geographical difference? :

Can non-asiatic really understand kendo as seen through asian eyes?
Can western really understand kendo as seen through eastern eyes?
Can aliens really understand kendo as seen through human eyes?

whereīs the limit...how much distance...or is it a subjective "culture heritage" understanding?..ok,letīs play that:

Can europeans living for 15 years in Japan understand kendo as seen through japanese eyes?
Can europeans living for 45 years in Japan understand kendo as seen through japanese eyes?
Can europeans living for 185 years in Japan understand kendo as seen through japanese eyes?

Can japanese living JUST for 5 years IN JAPAN understand kendo as seen through europeans living for 185 years in Japan eyes?

or even in a sort of ridiculous chauvinist way,

can japanese females understand kendo as seen through japanese male eyes?
and what about japanese females as seen through okinawan males eyes?


see my point? whereīs the "cultural heritage" difference? How is that determined exactly?

mmmm....Iīm going to say kendo is as personal as life is, and the bare fact of being japanese does NOT make you more intimate with kendo. The fact of learning it in a proper way does. The better the way you learn and train it, the better your grasp and understanding of it...IMHO.


my two puny european cents

PS: I lived in Spain for my whole life and still donīt understand bull-fighting, bull-running or tomato parties.
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:00 AM   #9
Oriesssedleli419

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To begin understanding kendo, you must first love it. And you don't need to be Japanese to do that.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:00 AM   #10
asharbiq

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...If i'm wrong then there should be no none-japanese hachidan IMHO.
Just out of curiosity, are there any non-Japanese 8-dan?
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Old 04-07-2006, 08:00 AM   #11
Weislenalkata

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Just out of curiosity, are there any non-Japanese 8-dan?
Take a look at this thread .
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Old 04-17-2006, 08:00 AM   #12
SasortFkire

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Well, I guess you canīt fully understand at a hundred percent anything outside your own culture just as if you were a native.

I live in Argentina, and even if Iīve been exposed a lot to American (read: US) culture, I still donīt understand many of their customs like the love for chicken wings (eww, we throw them away here), washed beer and coffee, etc.

I donīt think an American could understand tango as I do, having been born and always lived in a city that breathes tango and takes it into your person at the level of the cadence of your accent... I also think neither me or an American or a Japanese could really understand the Spanish customs of bull fighting, bull running in San Fermín or the giant city-sized tomato-throwing parties they have...

In this line of thought, I donīt think we gaijin can truly really fully understand and incorporate kendo (or any other cultural aspect inherent to Japan) in the same way a Japanese would.

Sure, we can love it, dedicate our entire lives to it, master it with true profficency and even do it better than some Japanese. But aside from judging "better/worse", I think that itīs different than the native perspective. As much as we may like it, itīs not our own cultural heritage.

Cheers!
I would agree with this... but kendo is not like any of those things. It has no mass support even in Japan. The majority of people just think of it as some weird antiquated hobby. Of course, kendo is Japanese, but most Japanese don`t "breathe" kendo.
There`s a long thread on this somewhere already. Try a quick search.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mello Kitty
Can non-Japanese really understand Kendo as seen through Japanese eyes? Or is Kendo something subjective and unique to the individual? i've seen some japanese dancing flamenco and playing guitar way way better and more into-it than your average spanish duo (in fact, i heard they often take 2nd place at the world flamenco championships).

i've also seen westerners who do better kendo than your average japanese kenshi and who take it more seriously.

we can all do our best at kendo, flamenco, karate, mambo or whatever. and gain a level of expertise and understanding way beyond average...

but probably the best kenshi will always be from japan, and best flamenco dancers from spain. live with it.
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Old 06-26-2006, 08:00 AM   #14
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Can non-Japanese really understand Kendo as seen through Japanese eyes? Or is Kendo something subjective and unique to the individual?
No one can see through Japanese eyes except if you are Japanese. And even then lots of people in Japan don't even understand why their fellow countrymen are practicing Kendo, let alone Gaijins. We all have our reasons to practice Kendo, for soul searching on this subject look up the concepts and lounge department. But we all have something in common that goes above and beyond the love of sports that avid sports fans and sports practioners have. I don't know how to describe it but there are lots eloquent Forumites here whose educated reactions I eagerly await.
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Old 06-28-2006, 08:00 AM   #15
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I'd like to think that if somebody is patienate about something eventhough it might be outside his/her culture, then understanding it would be more about dedication and perseverance in seeking it. If i'm wrong then there should be no none-japanese hachidan IMHO.
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:00 AM   #16
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stay away from him because he has been to Japan so he can kick you butt...
Hmm... well I think that is a little off the topic, but people have picked up on an important point. Culture can have a strong impact on the "meaning" of something, and I also believe that that "meaning" will change from one society to another. But is strong meaning required for the understanding something?

To have knowledge about something, is to have experienced it, otherwise all we can hope to have is an impression. And by understanding that knowledge is to come to have love of it, and by having love of that knowledge, it then gives it meaning.

Assume then, that an American who plays baseball travels to Japan to play. There, he plays for one season and returns to the United States. Could he have understood what it was like to play baseball in Japan before he experienced it? And, would he have not experienced playing the game the same as the Japanese?

A Japanese baseball player might have a different understanding of baseball than an American player because of the meaning they associate with it, but in the illustration they both experienced the same game.

Experience runs through the intillectual and cultural filter of our mind until we inevitably attach meaning to it. In that regard, did the American and Japanese players (both both pitchers) have the same meaning even though they play the same game?

Could it not be said then that the experience of these to players is subjective? They both pitch and both experience baseball, but is it the same baseball in their mind?

As much as we may like it, itīs not our own cultural heritage.
Julian is absolutly right. Those shared ideals, values and standards of behavior, that is culture, can filter out an entirley different meaning of something. But I would say even two people of the same culture can experience the same thing in a unique way. Thier understanding (experience) and meaning of it may be closer together than if someone outside the culture was compaired.

So I would say that everything is subjective in regards to the understanding anything. The experience and the love people have for Kendo is unique to those participating it, which means if a million people practiced Kendo, there would be a million meanings.

That is to say that we can experience something and come to understand it, but because of who we are, the meaning that arises is something unique and subjective.

Just my thoughts...

And sorry for such a long thread...
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Old 08-27-2006, 08:00 AM   #17
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Nice to see there is some interest in this thread, please keep your comments coming.
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