[letmelogin]

Aaaaeeeiieee. Wakarimasu.

I have been doing some reseach into Mayan culture and in the course thereof I have found several theories on the european "discovery" of Brazil. The one I like the most is that prior to 1492 the Portugese, who were the best sailors and navigators in the western world, "discovered" Brazil. The Portugese "owned" the routes around Africa to the Indies and, because they had forts all around the east and west coasts of Africa, could stop anyone who tried to take that route. That gave them the opportunity to check out the west and the southern currents sent them to Brazil.
There was a big problem with Spain and the Vatican so Portugal kept its mouth shut. Eventually Chrisopher Columbus either stole the Portugese charts or the Portugese "arranged" for him to obtain them. Columbus, who was neither a good sailor nor a good navigator, sold his "idea" about travelling west to India to Ferdinand and Isbella (Probably Isbella) and "discovered" Hispanola.
Spain then went to the Pope and got a decree that anything west of a certain longitude belonged to Spain. Portugal then went to the Pope and lobbied to change the decree to move the longitude westward. Since it did not matter at all, the Pope ageed. The new line was east of Columbus's "discoveries" but did not include eastern Brazil which, of course, nobody even "knew" existed.
About eight years after Columbus, the Portugese, the best sailors and best navigators in europe, sent about 12 ships to Africa. In a dead calm, one of the ships was "lost". The other eleven ships went looking for it and, don't you know it, they "discovered" Brazil. They stayed for one week and then ten of the ships continued their trip to India and one sailed directly to Portugal and claimed Bazil on behalf of their crown.
Go figure.

There is also a theory that in fact the chinese arrived here too. There are some ruins in the mexican west coast which show ships resembling chinese ships and trade with a "people on the other side of the world" presumably the corresponding accounts in China were lost during Uncle Mao's Happy Fun Killing Time.

Then there is also the "theory" that the templars also arrived which would explain the Maize plant carvings in some of the temples and some other "evidence".
And there is also that wacky Scandinavian whose name eludes me that crossed the atlantic on a papyrus ship built like the ones in ancient egypt to prove that it could have happened (and explain pyramids in both continents) I find this topic quite interesting.

[Ettiominiw]

And there is also that wacky Scandinavian whose name eludes me that crossed the atlantic on a papyrus ship built like the ones in ancient egypt to prove that it could have happened (and explain pyramids in both continents) I find this topic quite interesting.

That was Thor Heyerdahl on KonTiki, there is a book about it by the same name.
And let's not forget the voyages of Brendan the Voyager (St. Brendan from Ireland)

[ForumMasta]

I never quite understood the concept of "dicovering" a place that was full of people.

Me two, also terms like the "new" world.
This kind of subject is indeed very interesting, there are many misteries related to many kinds of exchanges between the people of this planet.
To the starter of thid thread, i'm sorry for letting the moorish pirate side of me take over for my last two posts.

[Fgunehjf]

I saw some school kids with jukendo armor and stuff in Yokohama. I don't think its all old guys that do it. Never seen any dojos but would be interesting..

[salomal-qask]

Indeed it is. It's realy only practiced by those who are old enough to have done it as part of their military training during the war.

Not so; I've seen young guys practing jukendo.

Probably tricky to find a dojo, though.

[beenBinybelia]

That spaulder looking piece is pretty interesting. It looks more along the lines of some western armor ive seen than eastern....

[Queuerriptota]

Eventually Chrisopher Columbus either stole the Portugese charts or the Portugese "arranged" for him to obtain them.

Hey Igntaz as far as my knowlegde goes, Cristopher Columbus was actually sailing in the Portugees fleet under Portugees flag. So it would not have been a problem for him to uptain those charts.

[yarita]

Not so; I've seen young guys practing jukendo.

... I was wondering about the same thing too. The All-Japan Shonen/ Seinen Jukendo Taikai are still being held every summer at the Nippon Budokan.

[Quonuttott]

Hey Igntaz as far as my knowlegde goes, Cristopher Columbus was actually sailing in the Portugees fleet under Portugees flag. So it would not have been a problem for him to uptain those charts.

He lived in Portugal for a while before he went to Spain and got Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain to finance his trip. He probably got the charts while living in Portugal but most likely did not make them himself. Navigators were very secretive about their navigation charts because of their great value. Without them all the ships in the world were pretty much worthless so the navigator could command a large percentage of any booty or cargo on a voyage. Thus they usually did not share them with the ships captain.
What seems to be pretty clear is that in 1500 when the Portugese went to Brazil, it was not their first time. Supposedly they are out mucking about looking for one of their fleet and accidently sail across the Atlantic ocean.

That spaulder looking piece is pretty interesting.

All of a sudden Mr. D starts talking about 15th centrury armor. Rainman or troll?

[Uojeyak]

Ignatz, my interest in medeivial weaponry and fighting technique has been expressed many times. It is both my area of major(or will be when i declare my study focus) and a hobby much older than kendo has been. I have spoken over and over again as to that fact.

Tad presumptious to assume everyone with a knowledge of european armour on a kendo forum is a troll. Maybe you should look back over the other 500 something posts ive made(in non-flames forums) and youlld realise I had an interest both in the use and construction of european armour and weapons.


It DOES look alot like a late high Gothic to mid sixteenth century pauldron(not a spaulder, excuse the slip in terminology)however.......

[YpbWF5Yo]

Tad presumptious to assume everyone with a knowledge of european armour on a kendo forum is a troll.

That's not what prompted the comment, it was the sudden appearance of intelligence i.e. two posts with apparently well thought out ideas, reasonably correct sentence structure, few spelling errors and all without any evidence of raving dementia. Keep up the good work.

[wMceqj7F]

Doesnt the Self defense force practice jukendo?. One of my shiatsu practitioners used to practice it and he's only 30-something.

Jakob

The US military still does some minimal amount of bayonet training, so it wouldn't be surprising if the JDF and everybody else does also, though no army in the world intends to have it's troops fighting with a blade outside of some special situations like trying to take out a sentry quietly. The US military used to use it more to teach aggresiveness and decisiveness in a confrontational situation rather than because they thought most troops would ever use their bayonet in combat, now the US uses the Gracie Jiu Jitsu-based combatives training for that purpose, but other countries may still use bayonet training.

The value of the bayonet in modern combat is probably indicated by the fact the the Soviet/Russion issue bayonet for the AK-47 is more a wire cutter than a bayonet, they just make it look like a weapon so the soldiers won't throw it away to avoid carrying it.

[maxfreemann]

Oh thank you ignatz, You've realy boosted my self esteem!(The BS in my room is running a couple of feet dep btw.)

Im sorry, smart a** comments are kind of like knee jerk reactions with me.

[ptolerezort]

The US military still does some minimal amount of bayonet training, so it wouldn't be surprising if the JDF and everybody else does also, though no army in the world intends to have it's troops fighting with a blade outside of some special situations like trying to take out a sentry quietly. The US military used to use it more to teach aggresiveness and decisiveness in a confrontational situation rather than because they thought most troops would ever use their bayonet in combat, now the US uses the Gracie Jiu Jitsu-based combatives training for that purpose, but other countries may still use bayonet training.

The value of the bayonet in modern combat is probably indicated by the fact the the Soviet/Russion issue bayonet for the AK-47 is more a wire cutter than a bayonet, they just make it look like a weapon so the soldiers won't throw it away to avoid carrying it.

Actualy, some US(at least US maybe in other countrys) special forces units are issued bayonets. There is even a production variant of the M-4 with a bayonet mount on it. Of course, the CQB situations groups like seals and delta force tend to find themselves in, some times hand to hand is a preferable option. I Sight an Ex-Navy seal I spoke to for a research project in a Military history class on that. It could now be outdated information(he has been retired 4 years or so), but I have seen picture of the M-4 bayonet mounts. I beleive the modern bayonets are actualy more knife like than traditional pivot mounts however. The pictures he showed me of there field issue was essentialy a knife with a hinge and lock mechanism that attached to the gun. As recently as Korea there was an entire unit specialy trained to seek out hand to hand combat(and there name escapes me at the moment). All the m-14 rifles were fitted with bayonet mounts, and all m-16's up to the A2 can be fitted easily. I beleive there was a design change in the A3 however that made it more difficult. I have heard rumors, though unverifiable, that the next generation of rifles(wich I also cant think of the designation at this moment......Ive seen pictures and I should know the name) will be fitted with a provision for a mount. As I said though that was a rumor being discussed after a class one day, not a fact......

[Saduyre9de]

Actualy, some US(at least US maybe in other countrys) special forces units are issued bayonets. There is even a production variant of the M-4 with a bayonet mount on it. Of course, the CQB situations groups like seals and delta force tend to find themselves in, some times hand to hand is a preferable option.

As of a few years ago most or all US troops were issued bayonets and had weapons with suitable mounts for them, as you noted through the A2 a bayonet lug was standard, there just wasn't a lot of emphasis on training to use them for ordinary infantry. Special forces I would guess are issued bayonets, though a lot of them choose to carry another knife or two in addition to or instead of the bayonet.

You are correct that US bayonets are pretty much a knife with a bit of extra hardware to attach to the barrel and lug on the rifle. As recently as the SKS most Soviet and Chinese bayonets were folding spikes or blades, but the AK-47 ones I am familiar with are a the separate knife type.