[Sniliabiz]

it was only ippon anyways. the match isn't even over, since both are playing to the 'sport' side of their respective martial heritage.

[romalama]

i saw a fencing demo a few months ago, and it was really not what i expected. in foil and epee (or the other thing), they have modified the handle, and it doesnt look like a sword at all... it looks like a happymeal toy to me... i mean, they hold the stuff with two fingers?? i doubt that could inflict that much damage 'if'.

sabre was the only one that looked fairly decent(at least the sword had a normal handle), but then again it looked as if they were using whips, not swords.

in a match for first blood, most probably fencing would always win. (as it was the case on this video)

but in a deathmatch, it would be like confronting a single handed gripped whip against a two handed sword. obviously the latter would inflict a lot more damage on any contact.

[SoOW2LeA]

Looked like a point to Kendo for me. Fencing dived into his attack and his empty space and got hit across the mask for his troubles.

[newspetty]

In the checkbook:

United States Fencing Association (18,000) members: Income $2,829,537
(FY 2004)
United States Fencing Foundation: Assets $1,602.911 (FY 2004)

All United States Kendo Federation (Federations are members, dojos are members of federations, and individuals are members of dojos - guess ~ 3000-5000 dues payers in US)

Income: $211,512 (FY 2003)
Assets: $220,362 (FY 2003)

All results from Guidestar

A more important question is how to grow kendo and still keep its essential character? (And maybe they are mutually exclusive).

The answer is it will take a long time. There are a limited number of qualified sensei and there is also a limited source of financial support.
People quit kendo like the plague. That results in less experienced kendoka and sensei in the future.

[mensforyouthis]

Does anyone have the rules? I have occasionally thought about this and rule sets aren't very compatible.

But the Fencer is using a sabre and his normal target area is limited to above the waist to score.

If I remeber correctly, Sabre only scores above the waist

[ASSESTYTEAH]

The fencer hit the tare and missed. The kendoka hit the guys head then the blade slide to the side. Meaning the kendoka cleaved the guy's skull open and the guy hits tare flap...

Kendo 1
Fencing 0

[jeargefef]

There should be no point for anyone. Both of them missed. Many of you say he hit MEN however, he was way off.

[FrereeDoulley]

U should give the kendoka a blunt katana instead..

why would be a fencer be afraid of a shinai ??

[Bill-Watson]

In the checkbook:

United States Fencing Association (18,000) members: Income $2,829,537
(FY 2004)
United States Fencing Foundation: Assets $1,602.911 (FY 2004)

All United States Kendo Federation (Federations are members, dojos are members of federations, and individuals are members of dojos - guess ~ 3000-5000 dues payers in US)

Income: $211,512 (FY 2003)
Assets: $220,362 (FY 2003)

All results from Guidestar

A more important question is how to grow kendo and still keep its essential character? (And maybe they are mutually exclusive).

[andreas]

This one's tough to pick the winner... although technically the fencer made contact, it was really a glancing blow, while the kendoka got him right on the head. If it was proper, I'd be guessing the kendoka would be tending to a scratch while preparing for the fencer's funeral.

[jeargefef]

dont care who scored a pont, with real swords the kendoka woul have a minor gash and keep fighting....while the fencer wouldbe trying to hold his skull together

[Skete]

People quit kendo like the plague.

I'll never understand why people would want to quit kendo. Personally, the only way I would quit would be for medical reasons.

[hiedeemom]

thanks for the video, its very interesting indeed.. are there anymore clips around the Net?

There a some good ones here:

http://www.kendo-world.com/

[Ikrleprl]

If they're going to let the fencer use a foil, shouldn't the kendoka get a daito?

[Nigeopire]

dont care who scored a pont, with real swords the kendoka woul have a minor gash and keep fighting....while the fencer wouldbe trying to hold his skull together

and plus, a rapier is meant to stab, really, not to slash... it bends so much the angle of atack is always messed up, even if your slash is perfect. have you seen how wippy it is? id be afraid of breaking it when deflecting it to attack! pff minor gash, more like a few split fibers on the tare flap... and the shinai actually bent the fencers face armor-whatchamacallit, giving the impression of a "glanced" slice, but it was more like a good slice and the face armor thing deforming under the shinai's coup. if it was really the guys face he'd be staring at you from two differnt directions.

[Elisabetxxx]

You know, I've always thought that in a kendo vs fencing match, it'd be more appropriate for the kendoka to wear fencing armour, and vice-versa, because the mengane is too wide to stop a foil/epee to the face, while fencing helmet is too flimsy to really withstand a men, or protect against a tsuki.

In which case both players would be at grave risk, and fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.

Have to agree with that.

And even by our rules the one that hit first wins, think of a men-debana-kote. If the kote hits first, it gets the point.

[VastDrura]

i saw a fencing demo a few months ago, and it was really not what i expected. in foil and epee (or the other thing), they have modified the handle, and it doesnt look like a sword at all... it looks like a happymeal toy to me... i mean, they hold the stuff with two fingers?? i doubt that could inflict that much damage 'if'.

sabre was the only one that looked fairly decent(at least the sword had a normal handle), but then again it looked as if they were using whips, not swords.

Well at least that clip was entertaining.

Even with the classical french (straight) grip, all 3 weapons are held with thumb and index finger and blade movements executed with finger pressure, the other 3 fingers are only there to assist. We didn't let beginners use the pistol grip to learn because it'll make them develop bad habits like using your wrist to move the blade instead. Besides, pistol grips comes in all sorts of sizes and shapes, and its much easier for the club to stock pratice foils with the french grip... which only comes in 1 shape and size.

Just like the edge of a katana, the point of a rapier is a deadly instrument and you don't need much power at all to pierce an unarmored person. (The foil is, after all a peacetime weapon used for duels, rather than a battlefield.) People are pretty fragile objects, compared to pointed/edged metal weapons.

I used to fence Sabre for 7 years before starting Kendo, and I call BS on that sabre hit. His arm was completely bent on the start of his attack, assuming he has to score on fencing rules, no right-of-way was established. His only salvation was that the kenshi was moving backwards. No one would have given the fencer that hit if it was done under non-electronic rules. (1 president and 2 side judges.)

Where the heck did that light come from? There wasn't any electonic equipment on both of them and I saw no wires connecting the Kenshi nor the fencer, so I guess someone just pressed a button on the side lol.

On the hit itself, based on where I wear my do and tare, that was off target. I guess that's one of the perks of electronic scoring... but then you see the result here too: crappy hits that bear no resemblence to a real sabre cut. Lets not even go into the how the fencer over-extended and have such a crappy finish that left him W-I-D-E open. (other ex-fencing guys on this forum will know what I'm talking about. )

For the Kendo guy, I'm glad they at least gave him a plastic eye protector and tape up ( or padded up?) his mengane.

[intmarkworkk]

I'd say that technically the fencer did win but it was a cheap shot in my opinion. With sabre, a hit counts as whoever hits first right? And aren't those sabers really flexible so it can whip around at just tap their opponent? You really can't compare the two because kendo was created to standardize combat techniques with the goal of defeating your opponent in a clean killing strike whereas fencing was created to as a gentlemen's sport with to goal of tapping their opponent first. Two different worlds, two different purposes, really no point in comparing the two.

[Indinehon]

If I remeber correctly, Sabre only scores above the waist

Saber scores from the hips up. Saber cut was on target.