[fkisjjdhh]

At my university club, we're having a really hard time getting new people. We have this influx of interested people, but, and this is no exaggeration, NONE of them have become members. Most members we have now are rather, ummm... unathletic, and generally could care less about the club and making decisions for it. Any suggestions would be greatly, GREATLY appreciated.

[fotochicaes]

Public demonstrations work for us. We've used Japanese culture festivals, high school and middle school clubs.

[KuevDulin]

Do your dorms have bulletin boards where you can put flyers. Granted, your typical college student doesn't read them, but you could make a flyer, get permission from the Residence Hall Association or whoever the official stamp of approval comes from, and then you can do it yourself, or the dorms could have the RA's post the flyers on the floor bulletin boards. This could create a little advertising on every floor of every dorm.

[Sillaycheg]

Attracting people to the art of Kendo is very hard. As you have already observed, you might get a few anime freaks there, then they all leave soon after since it's not what they thought it would be.

As people have already suggested, making yourself known is the best answer. If there is some sort of cultrual fair going on during the year, sign yourselves up. There are also demonstrations you can do around campus as well for those that can't make it to the callouts or practices to observe. It would also be best to make sure you warn people beforehand that you won't be doing any Kenshin stuff either.

Another way to keep retention is to keep variety in your practice. I have no clue as to how your practices are run, nor is it easy to really make a variety of practice when all you are doing is footwork but it's something to put into consideration if you haven't done so already. Doing footwork across the dojo floor gets the job done, but there might be some other variations that might break the flow.

[Honealals]

For a university club, guerilla marketing is the way to go. Get someone to set up an extremely beginner-friendly website. Canvas like crazy when the freshers arrive. Once you've got them, No.1 member retention technique for us: maintain a tight social group. Have regular meet ups. Go to tournaments together and celebrate (or perhaps commiserate if you're so inclined) by consuming lots of alcohol and getting into stupid adventures. We're more like what you call a fraternity than a Kendo club, only everyone's welcome and there's no hazing (mostly). See our website media section for evidence of this working. All those guys are still here.

[rhiniddibiarmr]

Thanks for the tips everyone... Anjin-san, I really like the alcohol idea, although I think I'm one of two members who are of legal drinking age. It's hard for me to create this kind of social atmosphere because I'm a commuter student and I'm probably 4-5 years older than everyone else (long story). I'll talk to a few people and give it a shot anyway. Thanks again!

[casinobonusa]

What? Students who are not of drinking age? The thought have never occured to me. Didn't know there was such a thing

On a more serious matter... A tip might be to expand the target group to more than just students. Try getting hold of highschoolstudents or whatever. We have an age-restriction of 15, which works fine.
Catching people of different ages and background counteracts the risk of having the whole club dying when people sop studying and moves away.
Other than that, I second the proposal of holding exhibitions. No new members unless they know you exist.

[poRmawayncmop]

Hahahahaha! I misread the title as "attractive club members".

Don't have much to add though, other people have already said what I would have said.

[AcecePesFeacy]

University Club--attraction, retention, turnover. The attraction part is usally straightforward, but the retention is a common problem (50..25..15..7). You have to reach people with both interest, finance, and endurance to stick with it. The semester club introduction events are a great time to do demos, along with whatever else you can dream up.

Retention is hard. You need a core group with on-campus interaction. People that see other people. As a commuter, it can almost makes you an outsider depending on the campus community. You'll need to rely on other club members to tout the club and interest people. Most clubs grow by being a source of interaction and community. Most clubs die because they don't bring in new members and train them in how to manage the school associations to keep the club alive.

Turnover is a fact of life for a university club. Students may be gone before reaching bogu. Leadership turnover is also a fact of life. Find and train other students to maintain the club's organization. I've seen several really great groups die off (no facilities access) because the do-it-all club prez didn't plan a successful hand off before graduation. Groom replacements early. Somebody has to do the painful parts--ease them into it.

Bringing in some non-students if you can like staff, alumni or sponsors from the nearby community. (This has negatives and positives.) They can help give a sense of balance with people who there year after year. It also helps increase the attendance. It's easier to be uncomfortable/shy and participate in a big group than in a small group. Be extra inviting and nice to new people, expecially before and after practice when you can step outside of the keiko mindset. Part of growing is building a club, not just doing kendo. A successful club is helping to meet that internal need for peer-esteem and building friendships--which also helps encourage people to stick with it.

[qd0vhq4f]

All is easier said than done, but our club generally stick to pretty much what DarQik is saying there. Well said. I agree with everyone above for the matter
The only problem for us is that once we do attract beginners, nearly half don't stay with us as long because they're bored of practising the basics, even though we made it clear how difficult it would be to do Kendo in bogu without knowing any basics! It's just impossible ... we tried giving them a taste, like into their third week or something, we strap 'em up for a session inside a bogu, just as intro and stuff like that ... but we're still losing about half of newbs out of every set. Any suggestions? (seeing that it is sort of related ...)

[GrottereewNus]

KendokaJim,

oooh this is tricky because it sounds like you are in a uni therefore your captive audience soon leave you.

The first thing I would ask is whether you wish to recruit people who have a couldn't care less attitude. By the sounds of it they seem to only wish to do this because it makes them look good to others rather than do it for themselves and how they can improve their skills etc.

I agree with whoever said it would be useful to recruit beyond the confines of the Uni - this might help in the long term.

I think we would need to know what kind of place you train at. If it is a computer college full of anorak types ( no disrespect meant by this) then you may struggle whatever you do. And this may extend to the many different types of colleges across your country. I know your educational system is not the same as in the Uk but one thing I have learned is that all schools coleges, unis etc seem to develop a reputation for being good at certain things - this means both curricular and extra curricular activities. If you are in a place with little kudos for martial arts then I think you may have an uphill struggle.

So does that mean you should give up? bugger that for a game of soldiers; advertise, cajole, persuade, get the coolest people along to train, get the prettiest girls along. Then see what happens.

The harder the adversity the greater the sense of achievement.

[Fededorbprago]

Well, the university I attend has a very good reputation for majors under the medical field. It also seems to have quite a large computer science program. This is where most of our club comes from... rather non-athletic types. We also have some pretty strong athletics, but most of the athletic-types are already on university teams. I guess I could just print up a few hundred flyers and post them about campus. Thanks for the tips!! Keep them coming.

[XVzrlWIv]

All is easier said than done, but our club generally stick to pretty much what DarQik is saying there. Well said. I agree with everyone above for the matter
The only problem for us is that once we do attract beginners, nearly half don't stay with us as long because they're bored of practising the basics, even though we made it clear how difficult it would be to do Kendo in bogu without knowing any basics! It's just impossible ... we tried giving them a taste, like into their third week or something, we strap 'em up for a session inside a bogu, just as intro and stuff like that ... but we're still losing about half of newbs out of every set. Any suggestions? (seeing that it is sort of related ...)

Dude, if you're keeping half then I'm impressed. Last year we kept something like 2% of the initial newbies. We don't let them touch armour for the first 7 or 8 months.

[JohnMitchel]

Do you have a gym or an area where you can train at your Uni? I use my local gym to train when the aerobics classes arn't using the open space (the mirrors are really helpful with tweeking kamae etc) I attract a lot of positive attention and people have come along to the dojo after seeing me training/suburi etc. I sometimes practice suburi in full armour in order to get used to moving in it and this makes for a great advert. Maybe have a shiai on your collage sportsfield?

Tim.

[crestorinfo]

The only problem for us is that once we do attract beginners, nearly half don't stay with us as long because they're bored of practising the basics... ... but we're still losing about half of newbs out of every set. Any suggestions? (seeing that it is sort of related ...)

It's one of the big problems--retention. You need to identify which types of people are the best for retention and market to them. I'm really trying hard not to come across as rude, but I can't seem to find a way around risking it...

Let's consdier the university club demographics. For the two I participate in I see the older folks who are staff, alumni and community; and the students. A large segment of the students are of asian decent. Most of participants are more on the intellectual side (geeky or odd as some would say). I haven't seen any serious (or half-hearted) jocks taking up kendo.

Why? The majority of university students do things for short term results--doing something that's fun and pays off now. After all the whole college thing is already a long term investment in the future, why do more of those? Fun now!! That's a major negative against traditional keiko. Besides half a semester of foot shuffling and blistering is painful--it's not fun. Compound that with another half a semester cutting air and smacking sticks while blistering, and it really stinks. Why would anyone want to do that? I continued because I see the goal as worthwhile, and I recognize that the basics are going to be the most grueling stage and am willing to push through that.

My only comparison--I did SCA (midieval history club) in college. It was a maintaining and growing club group with an active faculty sponsor. The sponsor provided the stability to avoid leadership turnover. We did lots of things outside of fighter practice, because it typically took a year to get armor collected and built. Being unable to participate for a year would be miserable, but we did activities and get togethers around the workshops throughout the week. Me and the other dozen or so history geeks (1/3 of us were CS majors). The SCA fighting was a draw, but it was the group comeraderie that held it together. I think this does apply to kendo clubs too, but not being a student anymore, I couldn't really say how the group dynamics work.

Retention and leadership turnover are the dangers. I understand Enkorat has had good success with the attracting and retention this year (any comments?). I do wonder what will happen when he and the other club officers graduate. It will require new student leadership to continue--a torch to be passed almost annually as a new junior or senior takes it over. I know it's not an easy job to coordinate everything with the university and takes a lot of time and effort. Will the up and comers be willing to maintain it and make it a continuing tradition?

Anyway... Flyers and demos. It helps to have a number of bogu level students to encourage the new people. Then more contact hours and 2nd dojo events to keep the spirits high.

[Patamuta]

I joined the club at the university near me after seeing them in the campus recreation magazine/newsletter. But I was already interesting in finding a Kendo dojo.

What are your visions for the club? Is it a place where intermediates can practice and help beginners learn? Or or you hoping to make more of it? I know that I see the club I joined as almost just a place to learn basic moves and to practice what I've learned. I'll be joining a more formal dojo soon in addition to the club because I want some formal training.

[yurawerj]

As far as leadership turnover goes, that's rather minimal because we have a sandan (soon to be yondan, hopefully) helping us out there. Plus, even though I'm only ikkyu, I plan on staying with the club as long as I stay in town even after I've graduated.

Kendo being the way that it is, I find it difficult to keep the practice interesting for the beginners without sacrificing practice for those in bogu. And as we all know, you can't throw beginners in bogu without strong basics (even thougb I'm sure that's what they want).

As far as my goals for the club are concerned, I would like to build a club with strong basics, which is active in the kendo community. By this I mean, participate in shiai, shinsa, and visit other dojo for keiko. We have eight, maybe nine, members in bogu, which isn't bad, but three of them are rather hopeless.

I see these members as otaku looking for something Japanese to do a couple times a week. It just frustrates me that the members we have do not actively participate in the club, whether it be keiko or decision-making. I also think these people sort of scare interested people away as well.

Maybe my expectations are too high for a university club, but it's still frustrating. Oh, and we have this rule that 75% of the club has to be undergrads, which severely limits the number of community members we can have.

Guess I should just focus on my own kendo. Shodan test is coming up quick!

[TobaccoNUE]

Jim

If your gettting people comming in, trying it for a few week then leaving.
It may be your training routine that is putting them off.

At our club (also a university club). We run an intensive 13 week beginners course (two night a week for 1 hour) twice a year.
The goal of the course is to have the beginners in a position to do Jegiko by the end of the course. It does mean upping the tempo and compomising some good technique.
The reasons we do this are as follows.
1) Most beginners are going to leave anyway. After a while it get really depressing investing alot of time into someone, then have them not show up.
2) Been a University club we usually have alot of young people. If they are not build up a sweet of feeling tired at the end of a training they usually feel they are not getting anything out of it and lose intreset. (We have found doing footwork for 4 or 5 weeks straight is a good way to lose all your beginners)
3) If people are not pushed during the beginners course and then continue on to regular club training once the corse is finished they get a rude shock when they try and train with us.
4) The smaller group that makes to to the end of the beginners course are beginning to understand how hard it is to hit someone on the head with a stick. They are usually more that willing to go back and spend time correct their basics. Because they have an understanding of what it will lead to.

This is what works for our clubs it has it limitations. But to date we have found it gives us the best retentation rates (10% to 15% of beginners) as opposed to been more technicaly correct focused (0% to 5%).

All we need to do now is work out how to get people (student) to come back after Mid sememster and Christmas breaks.

---------------------------------------

Short version:
Up training tempo, make training more intresting, move onto next trchnique sooner rather than later.

[ElcinBoris]

KendokaJim, I sympathize with your situation; it's much the same where I am. We get a lot of newbies at the beginning of the year but then we always loose a majority of them and only retain maybe three or four at the most. We've tried to hold demonstrations and what not but so far it's only generated detached interest from the rest of the campus. I'm currently running our college club and I've constantly tried to increase interest. We have a club fair at the beginning of every year and ever since we started, we've tabled and had people in bogu trying go garner interest. The initial results are great and we end up with at least a 300% increase in membership. Over time however we drop back to our usual number of about 10. What I've done to try to get more regular members is to get to know them individually and encourage them to keep coming to practice. I end up sacrificing a lot of time leading extra help sessions, be it extra practices, little meetings to help them with shinai maintainance, discussions about kendo, etc. All in all, don't feel bummed about it and just keep trying. Maybe try seeing about opening the club up to people outside the college or invite your professors to send their kids over if they're looking for a martial art to take up. Hold some demo's and invite the campus and/or local newspaper to cover it and get some publicity for your club. Hope any of this helps.

[wvbwxol]

I know there are all sorts of things we can do about altering the pacing of beginners courses or mixing up activities, but I think the biggest thing to instill in people is realistic and reasonable expectations. Speeding up the process and deviating from longer, slower training that develops good kihon is going to probably keep retention early on, but lose people later on when frustration sets in at the bogu wearing/jigeiko stage. You want your people in bogu to help continue to build the club and not have people that previous posters have mentioned may be useless and actually hurt the progress and image of the club. I think the basic fact is that you are going to lose people. It's simply a matter of time. The question is how to keep the good ones, meaning people who will work hard and be positive influences to the club, not just good from a talent perspective.

Do your beginners get to regularly see jigeiko sessions or are they only doing a beginners class? Do they practice before the advanced people and get to see the jigeiko sessions? Not forced watching, but plan the practices so they are getting subtle visual reminders of where their training is headed. Are the new people being told a basic time frame and being reminded that little by little they are approaching that light at the end of the tunnel? No promises of an ultimate you will be in bogu deadline, but at least a reasonable estimate.

I think that retention is based on people being reminded of how much farther they have to go and letting them know as they approach bogu that the time really is getting closer, rather than some mysterious far away deadline that never approaches. If they can see that they are getting close to something, they will hopefully keep going. These things are important to keep in mind in our interactions with the newbies at practice. Encouragement to keep training.

I have seen tennis training for school teams where the team has the usual core of 8 or so people who actually attend matches and actually play tennis. The rest of the people, many of whom just started for the first time, only hit forehand shots for weeks. Then you mix in backhands. They do repetitive drills and funny little games, but it is all essentially only those two hits, but the students stick with it because they have a sense of what is coming up. They can see the matches to get a hint of what it is like when it all gets put together. They know that some people will graduate out and next season they get the chance to do games. They have a reasonable expectation of how long they will be doing the beginner stuff, they are encouraged to stick with it and reminded of when "their time will come", and this keeps them going. I think a lot of retention or lack of it comes from these issues: encouragement, realistic expectations, and reminders that "their time" is getting closer each practice.

You also need to plan accordingly for little milestones along the way. For example, not starting with hakama and gi is important for proper footwork learning, but also when they earn the right to wear the gi/hakama, then they get encouragement from that. Then you can mix in special drills periodically that they can now do because they have reached another important milestone in their training. The first time people get thrown into kakarigeiko in the pre bogu stages could be one of those drills and special moments. Make a big deal out of it. Congratulations, now you are good enough that we can introduce the next level! Things that lead them to believe that they are taking on more difficult tasks. Bogu wearing is the ultimate marker for beginners, but if you can create special moments throughout your beginner courses, you can manipulate (not a great word, but with good intentions) the beginners to feel special and encourage so they feel they are moving up and not stagnating.