[Storwaytozy]

Hello All,
i have 2 questions at the end sorry for the noval..

I've recently went to the only Kendo club in Portsmouth that i can find, to see about taking up this MA, 1st Saturday there the english Sensei that was taking the class was'nt interested in me at all, i could have sat all the way through his 2hr class and nobody would have spoken to me, you know the normal introductions or how can i help you stuff. eventually his sister who was also sat on the spectators bench called him over, we had a little chat he said i could start strait away if id like, unfortunatly i had Karate training to goto so it would have been cutting it very fine for that, so i politly declind, however i did state that i would turn up on the Wednesday evening class, so i did, this time he ignored me again, on entering the dojo, i waited for someone to to speak to me, but nothing, and just then when i thought that things were looking up i got asked to sit a watch for the night, so not to disrespectfull i did for 2 hrs, durng this time i noticed that the class was being taken by middle aged japanese gent all in white, now i did think to myself was i asked to sit and watch cos i had been disrespectful to there sensei in wearing my white gi as thats all i have to training in for MA's or was it juat that they dont take on beginers on wednesdays, i feel that if it was the later then it would have been nice to have been told this before i decided to cancil my karate training for that night to goto kendo, during the class a couple of people had turned up late, one young lad just entered the class no bow or nothing just got all his gear out and started straite in with the class, within about 10mins he was taken to one side and told that he was not to train with the rest of the class and to think about his actions, now even i know from doing karate for 7 years that you just dont do that, the other gent that turned up late entered the class but stayed in sezar (excuse spelling) for at least 10mins before he got the nod to enter the class, duringthe later part of the class 5 students were asked to sit out for the rest of the class because they were not part of the competions team, so these student had missed out on nearly 40 mins of training they were just stood watching, which i didnt think was to good for them, then finally at the end of the class one of the team members spoke to me, asked me what did i think, i asked him a couple of questions and all i got back was that the lower grades suffered abit tonight because the team needed training, however he did say that he'd lend me a shinai for saturdays class, (i know ive gone on).
my questions are is this normal behaviour for a kendo club
the club charges £25 per month for a 2hrs lesson on saturdays and a 2hr class on wednesdays is this about right,

thanks for any help, to all..

[HotboTgameR]

Every dojo is different but maybe you can try the following: Next time, try to arrive a little early and talk to the sensei. Just say hello, your name and say that you are interested in joining the dojo. It is normal for some dojo to ask for candidates to sit and watch a few times so they can see what the class is about and decide if they are interested. Some dojo only accept beginners at certain points in the year in order to run a more efficient beginner's course. Try to go dressed in sweats instead of a karategi.

[Henldyhl]

I've recently went to the only Kendo club in Portsmouth that i can find

Never trained there but the people I've met that do in taikai and whatnot seem very friendly.

1st Saturday there the english Sensei that was taking the class was'nt interested in me at all, i could have sat all the way through his 2hr class and nobody would have spoken to me, you know the normal introductions or how can i help you stuff

They were busy doing Kendo. You're reading too much into your treatment or lack thereof. No one was consciously thinking 'Lets make the newbie watch'. We get people watching at UCL all the time, if they're interested they say something, if they're not, they walk away and we never see them again. We welcome all those that show an interest, but if you sit there like a maguro then we can't really help. No one pays us to meet and greet, and we know that the kind of person that will stick with it won't require us to.

durng this time i noticed that the class was being taken by middle aged japanese gent all in white, now i did think to myself was i asked to sit and watch cos i had been disrespectful to there sensei in wearing my white gi

Generally speaking, this is arbitrary, don't worry about the white gi, I doubt it had anything to do with the way they responded to you. I've met the guy you're talking about, and he's a good sensei.

duringthe later part of the class 5 students were asked to sit out for the rest of the class because they were not part of the competions team, so these student had missed out on nearly 40 mins of training they were just stood watching, which i didnt think was to good for them

I'm sure the sensei could have done with a bit of advice from you there, be sure to bring it up...

Seriously though, have a bit of trust. Everyone there had probably been doing Kendo for a while, they probably know what they're doing. That situation in particular has a lot of advantages in that they can watch the team train and pick things up, and might be more motivated to train hard and join the team eventually.

Also, the prices you mention work out to around £3/session which is pretty reasonable considering that there aren't any membership costs. In London you might have a £60/year membership on top of that.

Don't expect to click with everyone straight away, but I'm sure after you start training often and people get to know you, you'll be enjoying yourself and will forget all of this.

[Dilangfh]

There are many reasons for lots of these things. I would also judge a dojo based on the attitude of the other students. You can get a good impression of a dojo from their reactions as well.

Sensei may be preoccupied with lots of things. Some sensei don't interact much with visitors and leave that to some of the sempai. Some sensei are just burnt out from dealing with people who constantly quit so you have to earn their attention after a few months of practice or they have a waiting period in their mind where they wish to see how dedicated you are before they give you their time. Example, after my first initial introduction to sensei here in Japan, they would never speak to me. It took probably 3 months of training before sensei one day gave me a nod, called me over, and gave me lots of advice. The other students were the ones who led me along the way until that point so everyone is responsible for everyone in a dojo, not just the sensei. From that day on, I would get advice directly from sensei 50% of the time, so he was treating just like everyone else.

For sitting out when you went the second time and there was a different instructor, maybe he wasn't aware that you had already visited. Sometimes there are communication problems, or each day has a different teacher and training regiment so they wanted you to watch that day also.

As for the beginners watching while the competition team was training, there is a lot to gain from watching. We call it mitorigeiki, the practice of learning by watching and taking (for a crappy translation). Some practices here involve one on one matches for a couple minutes, while everyone else watches. Then you switch the people and everyone else still watches. End result is two minutes of physical training and 30 minutes of mitorigeiko, but lots of advice from you watching their training and listening to sensei's critique of the match for all to hear.

The gist of this is that there can be many reasons for all these things. Give it some time to feel out the situation. Since it may be your only training option, just go and see if your opinion changes over time. If it really is a bad place to you, you can always leave later, but not going keeps you from training at all, right? Give it a shot.

On the other hand, it could be a bad place for you to train, but you won't know unless you feel it out a bit more. This is the problem with not having other options. Give it a shot, it will probably be better than you realize.

[I9dydJrX]

You're exhibiting some hyper-sensitive characteristics, as exhibited by your hurried post which lacks grammatic structure and even the use of capital punctuation. You're over-reacting and simply reading too much into a situation with which you're not familiar. Relax - show up early and take the initiative to humbly introduce yourself before the sensei's attention is necessarily engaged on his/her students. If you arrive only shortly before practice commences, don't expect to be the center of attention. Don't assume anything until you know better. By the way, observation is a great training tool for novices - it's not a waste of time.

In our dojo, no one makes a living from kendo (and our dues structure reflects this). Kendo is a vibrant and exciting activity we enjoy practicing to improve ourselves and others, however unless there are others to practice with, there is ultimately no meaning to it. We always try to recognize those who show sincere interest.

[ladleliDypenue]

Thanks for your reply Yoda,

however if i was after an english lesson i would have asked, nobody is perfect, and spelling/grammer and punctuation are not my forte, Shotokan on the other hand is. I think that you may have ready to much into my thread, sorry if i couldn't have painted a better picture for you but i felt this was the best way to discribe my first experience, and as far as it goes for being centre of attentions that couldn't be further from the truth, maybe i was wrong in thinking that another Japanese martial art would have a siminlar approch to new or possible new students, however it was a bit of a shock to recieve what could only be discribed as the cold shoulder, Finnally if i wasn't clear in the first thread i did turn up to the classes at least 10mins before they started.

[VrQsgM7c]

Okay, settle, petal.

Yoda was making an observation from your post that related to your question, as this is a written forum we can only go by how and what people write. Personally I felt that you had read to much into it as well. And after all, you wanted our opinion.

i did turn up to the classes at least 10mins before they started That's really not very much (and now, I'm not saying you were wrong turning up so soon before because you weren't meant to know). The kendokas have got to get changed into their hakama and gi, lay out their bogu (armour), check their shinai (the bamboo swords) for splinters, catch up, make various club-related transactions (fees and stuff bought through the club, etc). I don't have hakama and gi yet but still rock up half and hour before practise starts and there's usually a few there before me. Not that I'm saying you need to rock up that early as a beginner once you're training! But definitely if you want to talk to the sensei. Personally I find afterwards is better for that kind of thing though, when his/her mind isn't on the up-and-coming training anymore.

As for beginners, I have to agree with what someone else said that not all dojos like to take beginners in whenever. I know at our dojo(s) there are several beginners' courses run a year and you need to attend six out of eight of those and can't join after the second week because it's too disruptive to the others if the sensei or instructor has to take the time to bring them up to speed.

Your best bet might be to phone a contact from the club (if they have a website or number in the phone book) and say you've visited the dojo and now you'd like to do kendo. What's next?

I know a lot of dojos do get people to sit and watch for their first session or two. Ours doesn't. However, our warmups before stretches involve shuttle runs and lunges. Shuttle runs can be rather brutal to the unfit body (I'm not fit and still despise shuttle runs (or suicide runs) but I'm a lot fitter than when I started kendo!) and we had some beginners at the last course leave straight after the shuttle runs. I can't help but think that if they'd simply watched training for the first time they were there and saw what was being aspired to, they might have stayed.

As for watching - it's great. Our beginners courses stop, sit on the sidelines and watch those in bogu doing keiko (free-sparing). This goes for roughly half and hour or so. That means that a) the beginners' get to learn by watching and understand a lot more about what they're doing in their basics and why and b) but not training for that entire time, they're not being pushed so hard and can work up their strength. I also found that it was a good chance to have very quiet conversations (generally about what we were watching, as long as we weren't being loud, disrespectful or disruptive, noone minded) and get to know the people you're doing this with a bit better.

disrespectful to there sensei in wearing my white gi No, but trakkies and a tee-shirt are definitely the go.

or was it juat that they dont take on beginers on wednesdays I don't know but it's possible. Last year when I first did beginners' I got convinced by someone else in my class to go on senior's training night. I got a lot out of it, but not as much as the night where beginners' was run. What I noticed however was that there would only be a couple of us beginners, like three or so. That meant that sensei or someone else would have to take time out to instruct/supervise us and I didn't think it was very fair on the seniors. So even now that I'm in armour, I'm going to refrain from going to seniors until I've gone from being "transitional" to either a senior or until I think I'm really up to it (oh no - i have to wait longer till i can train four times a week )

Please don't lose heart.

[RealCHEAPsoftDOWNLOAD]

It is quite possible they don't take beginners in on Wednesdays. My dojo does two sessions a week, one on Mondays for everyone and the one on Wednesday is just for people in bogu. Check their website out and find out/email a contact.

[elektikaka]

Quickly b/c the baby is wakin'...

On the subject of grammar...just try a period and new paragraphs every once in a while. They go a long way. (not correcting, just suggesting).

Ok, as a beginner I can relate a bit. I quickly learned that people come and go quickly in Kendo. Most regulars don't pay much attention to newbs because they never see them again, so what's the point? They get to know people who keep coming back.

For the next session, get there much earlier than 10 mins and go right up to someone and ask who you should talk to about joining the class. Dress in sweats (casual workout stuff), not the karate gi, and have a good attitude. There is a bit of prep for intermediate students before class, so people might seem preoccupied.

As far as beginners sitting out after a while, that seems to happen in every club. At some point, the intermediates spar and the beginners watch. There's a lot to learn from watching, and I consider it to be as fundamental as doing.

Hope this helps, and glad you're here!

[smokeberly]

I have to say when i watched the seniors sparring (sorry not quite up on the lingoyet) it was just as good, if not better, than practicing. I got to see the footwork in practice and the right mind-sword-body-together (again sorry) working well. Admittedly I have only been to 1 session so far, but it really helped to put it into perspective.

[bromgeksan]

Terashima-san comes on this forum occationally, so he may be able to give you more precise response. However, I am not sure why a person seeminingly very interested in joining kendo, will have a problem sitting there watching, before deciding whether to commit with time/money as a concern... If they are having competition training, that's a great opportunity to watch people from your own club to fight, give them support, etc. If you have a question go up there and ask when they are free.

[orapope]

As a newbie myself I can sort of relate..

Almost all the dojos I went to..about 4 in total..i got basicall the same gretting (except one) NOTHING! So I guess it is normal for Kendoist to totally ignore you when you go and watch...why, I still do not know to this day?? I guess they just assume new ppl come and watch so they shouldn't show any hospitality?? But of course i didn't let this stop me.

And all the dojos i went too only allowed beginners during certain time, mostly beginning of the month or specific dates..so that could be the reason. And sweats and t-shirt would've been better.

Also, a lot of Kendo clubs do prefer you watch at least 2-3 classes before you consider joining, because Kendo is a very particular sport, not like any other Martial Art i've seen. I guess unlike other MA where the instructors or sensei would tlk to you and greet you, Kendo is just one of those MA when you dont..hahah ?? It almost turned me away at first, but I didn't want something so small and stupid turn me away from doing the MA i've been waiting to practice for so long. I hope i helped

[HoqCBYMl]

...however it was a bit of a shock to recieve what could only be discribed as the cold shoulder, Finnally if i wasn't clear in the first thread i did turn up to the classes at least 10mins before they started.

Hi Matthew...

I am very sorry that you had such an inauspicious first impression of our Dojo...

I know that you joined us for training today and did very well so I certainly hope that we have overcome any poor start... Thank you for your persistence...

The first Saturday that you came was the day of a Grading Seminar, and as such, there were a few people missing (including myself).

On Wednesday, I arrived really late (I'm the big chap with the beard who came up to talk to you today...), I saw you, but I diddn't come over to speak to you as I had lost my voice (some people see this as a blessing...!)... I saw that one of the other Kendoka came over to speak to you at the end and assumed that he had answered your questions...

Once again... sincere apologies for what you perceived to be poor manners on our part. Just to re-assure you... there was no problem with you wearing a karate gi (as indeed you did today...)...

Let's move forward... put this thread behind us... you will see that we are a very welcoming Dojo... I hope (on behalf of all at Portsmouth) that you will continue to attend and that you will enjoy Kendo as much as we all do...

If there is anything that you want to know, please do not hesitate to ask... you are very welcome in the Portsmouth Dojo.

Just to clarify one final point... Please be assured that we (as with the majority of Kendo Dojos) do not aim to make a profit from monthly fees... these fees are to cover the hall rental and also to cover the cost of ordering beginners' shinais, tenegui etc...

Cheers

Hope to see you on Wednesday / Saturday...

[verybigf]

Thanks for the support,see you wednesday.

I have posted an opology in case i have offended anyone, i must admit i felt very humbled today in class, once agian i feel like im starting and new and exciting journey and it feels great.

[FelikTen]

Hi Matthew...

You've offended no-one... please regard this as a closed chapter...

In fact, your openess in recounting your perspective will certainly help us.

Look forward to seeing you soon

[pirinosa]

I love happy endings.