[QiuCIOdO]

I'm a relatively new starter in Kendo/Kumdo, about 3-4 months back I started in a Korean Dojang.

Since Uni started I've joined the University Kendo Club, but during tonights practice in the dojang having spoken to one of the senior people I'm told that I must not be going to two different places to train at the same time.

Perplexed, I asked why and got the somewhat vague answer of how my instructor at the Uni club would "treat me as their student, rather than the Master's student" the Master in this case being the Korea equivalent of the Sensei at the Dojang.

I understand why they take this position to a degree. My mum comes across the same thing in Ballroom dancing; instructors don't like their students getting confused when they come across different teaching methods or even instructions at other places...

however I really want to do more training >

[mGUuZRyA]

Whether the club promotes training at different dojo or not really depends on which club you go to.

For me, I was lucky to be able to train with 3 different clubs at the moment and my sensei(s) are happy for their students to train at other clubs too. At one time, I was crazy enough to go to 5 different clubs in one week - including your club - and trains 7 time.

I really enjoy the experience of training with kendo like-minds in other dojo and appreciates that I was given this kind of opportunity. I am able to experience and learn from different styles (found out what I am good at / not good at by exposing my kendo to many different styles) and absorb ideas from people who have experienced different things.

[Tryphadz]

That's great.

I was kind of hoping for some kind of advice on how to convince my korean dojang master to let me to go attend my uni kendo club though.

[illiderob]

I think the general idea, beyond someone thinking of you as "their student" and not "someone else's student" which is dumb to me because that doesn't really matter unless you get into wierd conflicts of which dojo to represent at a tournament if both go, but the real problem is the conflicting teaching methods that was mentioned. I have heard that many clubs support training at other places, but don't ask beginners to do so until they reach a certain skill level or time frame. It is understandable that beginners can get confused with different teaching methodologies and gradually with some experience they can sort through that in a much better way because they possess a certain amount of basic knowledge to assimilate different teachings in more productive manner. The gist of it is that you are the student of any dojo you go to... unless you are the sensei... You either need to sort out a proper time frame when your sensei will not worry about you confusing instruction methods and thinks it is fine to go out and learn from other teachers. OR if it really is an issue of "who's student your are" then you can find a way to designate your home dojo that you use as your home base and the others are just supplementary. Usually your zekken designates what dojo you "belong to" while still allowing training with others and no confusion over home dojos. Maybe one of these two issues are the case and can fix the problem. Maybe you need to wait a little longer, or you need to clearly select a home dojo that will make sensei's ego happy. I apologize too for the potentially rude comment, but unless there are tournament representation issues that I mentioned earlier, you are a student of kendo in every dojo except the one you are the sensei of which means that it feels like an ego issue to me. I hope that makes sense.

[sniskelsowwef]

That's great.

I was kind of hoping for some kind of advice on how to convince my korean dojang master to let me to go attend my uni kendo club though.

As you improve in kendo it is generally accepted that you will, in fact, train at other places. We call this Shu Ha Ri. It is used as a term which explains the levels of training in Kendo. SHU is the level where one obeys the principles of a particular style (school) and learns them solidly. HA is the level where one does not simply adhere to the style one has learned, but through interchange with other schools, expands and deepens one's own techniques. RI is the level where one further develops one's art and establishes a new, personal style.
The idea put forth in many martial arts, "you can only train here because we are the best", simply does not hold in Kendo. That being said, as a beginner it would be easy for you to get confused in trying to learn basics at two places so it might make more sense to pick one at your level.
There are some subtle differences between Kendo and Kumdo that are too complex to explain here but they deal a lot with basics. So, I think, at this point you will have to make a choice. Life is a series of choices, you choose one thing or the other or choose not to choose.
I will offer you this one bit of advice, if your dojang master is of the mind that you can never train at another school, regardless of your skill level, you should choose the University club. Ask the teacher(not other students) what the policy is and make your choice accordingly. But convince your teacher to change his policy? I doubt it.

[6Rexw51X]

I will offer you this one bit of advice, if your dojang master is of the mind that you can never train at another school, regardless of your skill level, you should choose the University club. Ask the teacher(not other students) what the policy is and make your choice accordingly. But convince your teacher to change his policy? I doubt it.

Wise words. Thanks a bunch Ignatz. I'd though of something of my own too (namely telling the dojang master that I swear to keep his teachings in mind at the uni dojo and would only be there for practice). However what you said also sounds very right. I shall ask him whether he intends me to ever only stay at his Dojang. If it is so, I will have to suspect that it's a stupid ego issue and quit the dojang.

[Frierlovene]

As there is difference between kendo and kumdo, I can understand if he wants you to reach a certain level of proficiency before training at other dojos, but if it is as Ignatz theorises, that you can never train at other dojo's, I would probably stick to the Uni club.

I use to practice at up to 4 different places, (now it's just 2 and a bit) and I think that the moment you get reasonably comfortable doing ji-geiko, you should venture out and experience other dojos.

Jakob

[P3bWjm1j]

The beginner is hard to hold on their basics. It is better be patient to train at one place until you have a sharp good basics before training at several dojo.

[Clarissa]

Do self training. Actually, I'm in a similar situation because I'm somewhat of a Kendo whore (will train anywhere). Back in November one of my senseis said something about one of the other dojos I train at. I offered to stop going and he said it was okay so long as I kept stressing what my home dojo taught. Maybe I haven't been doing too good of a job at this because last night he mentioned that it might be more beneficial to me to do self training on the nights my home dojo doesn't meet. Ask your sensei for suggestions on what to do at home. Then maybe after you get shodan (or whatever the equivalent is in Kumdo) you can ask if you can go back to the uni club.

And to add to Ignatz's comment... one of my sempai told me that a hachidan sensei (I think it was Chiba sensei) told him that there is shu-ha-ri within shu-ha-ri and that he (the sensei) is only at the ri part of shu. So be patient and definitely don't approach your sensei with the question of "whether he intends me to ever only stay at his Dojang." My suggestion is to try to be as humble and self-effacing as the hachidan sensei.

[RIjdrVs3]

As you improve in kendo it is generally accepted that you will, in fact, train at other places. We call this Shu Ha Ri. It is used as a term which explains the levels of training in Kendo. SHU is the level where one obeys the principles of a particular style (school) and learns them solidly. HA is the level where one does not simply adhere to the style one has learned, but through interchange with other schools, expands and deepens one's own techniques. RI is the level where one further develops one's art and establishes a new, personal style.

I once heard an 8 Dan Kendo Sensei say that in his opinion, Shu lasts roughly through 4 Dan, Ha is 5 and 6 Dan, Ri is 7 and 8 Dan.

[DrBrightonone]

... one of my sempai told me that a hachidan sensei (I think it was Chiba sensei) told him that there is shu-ha-ri within shu-ha-ri and that he (the sensei) is only at the ri part of shu.

Very true but I don't think that a beginner would easily understand this, I'm not sure that I completely do, even after 16 years.
One piece of advice that my sensei gave me when I went out on my own was "when you go to another dojo, pay attention and do things the way that they do them, don't say, this is the way we do it at my dojo." I must admit that I have not always followed that advice but I should.
As for talking to your master or sensei, of course you should be humble but, this is not 12th century japan or korea. I have trained at many, many dojos with very, very good teachers and I don't recall ever having one that was not warm and friendly and concerned and helpful outside of training. During training, some were brutal some less so.