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**JRixlcvF** · 08-22-2006, 03:46 PM

Lou Reed isn't even in the same universe as the Dead and Tull, never mind being mentioned in the same sentence.

**jyhugikuhih** · 08-22-2006, 03:49 PM

Lou Reed isn't even in the same universe as the Dead and Tull, never mind being mentioned in the same sentence.

Hahaha...I thought I'd get to you there. Mentioning Lou in the same breath as Journey is a heinous crime, I agree.

**derisgun** · 08-22-2006, 04:56 PM

ok, I know I'm not an old geezer like you lot, but I seriously love Neil for championing Lou Reed. Even if he never did get anywhere as good as when he was in the Velvets.

**joanbertis** · 08-22-2006, 04:57 PM

No I think Paikea had a point. The Grtfl Dead, The Velved UnderGround and Tull were all aquired tastes, same with Dylan. The Dead because they were a complete mix of country folk and acid rock, with a very unique form of musical talent. The Underground because of there adherence to simplicity and because Reed had a poor sining voice and Niko sounded like a man in falceto. Tull because of the mix of classical and heavy influence of blues and Jazz, and the flute solos. Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music.

And I would argue they are all as equaly enjoyable/hateble as each other. Listen to Lou Reed's synth experiments if you think he is 100% genious.

**mv37afnr** · 08-22-2006, 04:59 PM

Here's one for Neil--Great Speckled Bird. I always thought Amos Garrett was one of the best guitar players ever and I especially liked them doing Crazy Arms in French, well French Canadian but close enough.

Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music.

Lots of people who "can't sing" sound really good because they know how to phrase. In Dylan's case he can also write a freaking song.

**SaamanthaSterlyng** · 08-22-2006, 05:04 PM

No I think Paikea had a point. The Grtfl Dead, The Velved UnderGround and Tull were all aquired tastes, same with Dylan. The Dead because they were a complete mix of country folk and acid rock, with a very unique form of musical talent. The Underground because of there adherence to simplicity and because Reed had a poor sining voice and Niko sounded like a man in falceto. Tull because of the mix of classical and heavy influence of blues and Jazz, and the flute solos. Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music.

And I would argue they are all as equaly enjoyable/hateble as each other. Listen to Lou Reed's synth experiments if you think he is 100% genious.

I guess that depends on how you define good, for me, the chorus of Like A Rolling Stone is as good as it gets. I do prefer my VU without Nico though.
Also, reed may not have a "great voice", but he does more than alright.

**jimbomaxf** · 08-22-2006, 05:06 PM

I'm not saying Dylan was bad, I love him too, he was a genious poet (most of the time), but he didn't have a good voice.

I like VU without Niko too. But I'm not an old geezer, I turned 18 on saterday

**ådrrraj** · 08-22-2006, 05:45 PM

Hmmm... Bennosuke... guess I was wrong... looks like you started a 70s prog rock love-in rather than World War Three...

I just have to chip in the lyrics of my fave VU track... still find it funny till today: http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/th.../the_gift.html

Poor Waldo....!

**konanoileaski** · 08-22-2006, 09:15 PM

well, to be fair, I dislike all 70s prog rock that is not King Crimson. As the 70s go, I'm much more a fan of that great american creation that is punk.

**Rounteetepehryn** · 08-22-2006, 11:49 PM

Isn't punk blamed on the Who (my favorite band) making punk a UK thing. Most of the "good" punk bands were from GB anyways, think Sex Pistols or more popular today Flogging Molly.

**RogHammon** · 08-23-2006, 12:05 AM

I just love the way everybody tries to explain "music" in 2 or 3 lines....

Continue please

**Hervams** · 08-23-2006, 12:54 AM

Bennosuke... I think that Lloromannic is trying to stir up a transatlantic storm...

He knows very well that Punk started in the UK '76 - '77 (Pistols, Clash, London, Sham '69 etc...) and that the US developed a diluted version which was basically Rock 'n Roll (same as it ever was) with slightly more spaced out, dodgy lyrics and hair (Ramones, Television, Mink DeVille etc...)...

Most successful East to West crossover was probably Generation X / Billy Idol. The most successful West to East transatlantic Punk crossover (and I am sure that this is contentious) was Blondie.

I saw them in concert last year... took the wife and kids ... couldn't understand why all the old people were there with their walking sticks, Zimmer frames and hearing aids... then I realised that this was my generation.... and I was one of them...(aaaagh!). Generation X turns Ex-Generation...! First concert where they had to turn up the volume 'cos the people at the back couldn't hear...

I always enjoyed the Ramones and Television (still listen to them quite a lot)... but don't really classify them as Punk... more American New Wave...

Now don't get me started on UK New Wave... Depeche Mode, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran, Orhestral Manouevres in the Dark, Ultravox....

**gooseCile** · 08-23-2006, 10:30 AM

...The Cars, Elvis Costello (although he was punk at first or harder rock at least)...

**IronpumpedLady** · 08-23-2006, 10:40 AM

I just love the way everybody tries to explain "music" in 2 or 3 lines....

Continue please

It's easy, really. "Smart people think like me". Johnny Cash, anyone?

**Kolovorotkes** · 08-23-2006, 11:23 AM

He knows very well that Punk started in the UK '76 - '77 (Pistols, Clash, London, Sham '69 etc...) and that the US developed a diluted version which was basically Rock 'n Roll (same as it ever was) with slightly more spaced out, dodgy lyrics and hair (Ramones, Television, Mink DeVille etc...)...

You've got the chronology wrong. The New York scene that spawned the Ramones, Television and others predated English punk by several years. The Ramones' first album was 1975.

**teentodiefows** · 08-23-2006, 11:40 AM

Iggy and the Stooges, circa. 1967 Ann Arbor Michigan
and
MC5, circa 1964 Detroit Michigan (proto-punk)

**Fksxneng** · 08-23-2006, 11:43 AM

Who was Sham?

**Meowmeowz** · 08-23-2006, 11:53 AM

You mean Sam the Sham?

**Rufio** · 08-23-2006, 12:12 PM

You've got the chronology wrong. The New York scene that spawned the Ramones, Television and others predated English punk by several years. The Ramones' first album was 1975.

Not contesting the chronology... but in terms of style, the US Punks were far too melodic and musical to be classified in the same group as the UK Punks...

**Mediconlinee** · 08-23-2006, 12:23 PM

What you said is that the US "developed a diluted version" which implies that the influence went from UK to US. In fact, the influence was the other direction. No denying the UK punks were grittier but they took their initial cue from bands like the Ramones, who in turn were propelled by the Stooges and the MC5.

08-22-2006, 03:46 PM	#21
JRixlcvF Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 505 Senior Member	Lou Reed isn't even in the same universe as the Dead and Tull, never mind being mentioned in the same sentence. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-22-2006, 03:49 PM	#22
jyhugikuhih Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 452 Senior Member	Lou Reed isn't even in the same universe as the Dead and Tull, never mind being mentioned in the same sentence. Hahaha...I thought I'd get to you there. Mentioning Lou in the same breath as Journey is a heinous crime, I agree. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-22-2006, 04:56 PM	#23
derisgun Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	ok, I know I'm not an old geezer like you lot, but I seriously love Neil for championing Lou Reed. Even if he never did get anywhere as good as when he was in the Velvets. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-22-2006, 04:57 PM	#24
joanbertis Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	No I think Paikea had a point. The Grtfl Dead, The Velved UnderGround and Tull were all aquired tastes, same with Dylan. The Dead because they were a complete mix of country folk and acid rock, with a very unique form of musical talent. The Underground because of there adherence to simplicity and because Reed had a poor sining voice and Niko sounded like a man in falceto. Tull because of the mix of classical and heavy influence of blues and Jazz, and the flute solos. Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music. And I would argue they are all as equaly enjoyable/hateble as each other. Listen to Lou Reed's synth experiments if you think he is 100% genious. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-22-2006, 04:59 PM	#25
mv37afnr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 412 Senior Member	Here's one for Neil--Great Speckled Bird. I always thought Amos Garrett was one of the best guitar players ever and I especially liked them doing Crazy Arms in French, well French Canadian but close enough. Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music. Lots of people who "can't sing" sound really good because they know how to phrase. In Dylan's case he can also write a freaking song. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-22-2006, 05:04 PM	#26
SaamanthaSterlyng Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 362 Senior Member	No I think Paikea had a point. The Grtfl Dead, The Velved UnderGround and Tull were all aquired tastes, same with Dylan. The Dead because they were a complete mix of country folk and acid rock, with a very unique form of musical talent. The Underground because of there adherence to simplicity and because Reed had a poor sining voice and Niko sounded like a man in falceto. Tull because of the mix of classical and heavy influence of blues and Jazz, and the flute solos. Dylan, because like Lou Reed (who I love) couldn't sing, and because of the simplicity of the music. And I would argue they are all as equaly enjoyable/hateble as each other. Listen to Lou Reed's synth experiments if you think he is 100% genious. I guess that depends on how you define good, for me, the chorus of Like A Rolling Stone is as good as it gets. I do prefer my VU without Nico though. Also, reed may not have a "great voice", but he does more than alright. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-22-2006, 05:06 PM	#27
jimbomaxf Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 421 Senior Member	I'm not saying Dylan was bad, I love him too, he was a genious poet (most of the time), but he didn't have a good voice. I like VU without Niko too. But I'm not an old geezer, I turned 18 on saterday Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-22-2006, 05:45 PM	#28
ådrrraj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 492 Senior Member	Hmmm... Bennosuke... guess I was wrong... looks like you started a 70s prog rock love-in rather than World War Three... I just have to chip in the lyrics of my fave VU track... still find it funny till today: http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/th.../the_gift.html Poor Waldo....! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-22-2006, 09:15 PM	#29
konanoileaski Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	well, to be fair, I dislike all 70s prog rock that is not King Crimson. As the 70s go, I'm much more a fan of that great american creation that is punk. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-22-2006, 11:49 PM	#30
Rounteetepehryn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 349 Senior Member	Isn't punk blamed on the Who (my favorite band) making punk a UK thing. Most of the "good" punk bands were from GB anyways, think Sex Pistols or more popular today Flogging Molly. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-23-2006, 12:05 AM	#31
RogHammon Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 598 Senior Member	I just love the way everybody tries to explain "music" in 2 or 3 lines.... Continue please Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-23-2006, 12:54 AM	#32
Hervams Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 511 Senior Member	Bennosuke... I think that Lloromannic is trying to stir up a transatlantic storm... He knows very well that Punk started in the UK '76 - '77 (Pistols, Clash, London, Sham '69 etc...) and that the US developed a diluted version which was basically Rock 'n Roll (same as it ever was) with slightly more spaced out, dodgy lyrics and hair (Ramones, Television, Mink DeVille etc...)... Most successful East to West crossover was probably Generation X / Billy Idol. The most successful West to East transatlantic Punk crossover (and I am sure that this is contentious) was Blondie. I saw them in concert last year... took the wife and kids ... couldn't understand why all the old people were there with their walking sticks, Zimmer frames and hearing aids... then I realised that this was my generation.... and I was one of them...(aaaagh!). Generation X turns Ex-Generation...! First concert where they had to turn up the volume 'cos the people at the back couldn't hear... I always enjoyed the Ramones and Television (still listen to them quite a lot)... but don't really classify them as Punk... more American New Wave... Now don't get me started on UK New Wave... Depeche Mode, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran, Orhestral Manouevres in the Dark, Ultravox.... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-23-2006, 10:30 AM	#33
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	...The Cars, Elvis Costello (although he was punk at first or harder rock at least)... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 10:40 AM	#34
IronpumpedLady Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 544 Senior Member	I just love the way everybody tries to explain "music" in 2 or 3 lines.... Continue please It's easy, really. "Smart people think like me". Johnny Cash, anyone? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 11:23 AM	#35
Kolovorotkes Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	He knows very well that Punk started in the UK '76 - '77 (Pistols, Clash, London, Sham '69 etc...) and that the US developed a diluted version which was basically Rock 'n Roll (same as it ever was) with slightly more spaced out, dodgy lyrics and hair (Ramones, Television, Mink DeVille etc...)... You've got the chronology wrong. The New York scene that spawned the Ramones, Television and others predated English punk by several years. The Ramones' first album was 1975. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 11:40 AM	#36
teentodiefows Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 558 Senior Member	Iggy and the Stooges, circa. 1967 Ann Arbor Michigan and MC5, circa 1964 Detroit Michigan (proto-punk) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 11:43 AM	#37
Fksxneng Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 477 Senior Member	Who was Sham? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 11:53 AM	#38
Meowmeowz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 475 Senior Member	You mean Sam the Sham? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-23-2006, 12:12 PM	#39
Rufio Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 502 Senior Member	You've got the chronology wrong. The New York scene that spawned the Ramones, Television and others predated English punk by several years. The Ramones' first album was 1975. Not contesting the chronology... but in terms of style, the US Punks were far too melodic and musical to be classified in the same group as the UK Punks... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-23-2006, 12:23 PM	#40
Mediconlinee Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	What you said is that the US "developed a diluted version" which implies that the influence went from UK to US. In fact, the influence was the other direction. No denying the UK punks were grittier but they took their initial cue from bands like the Ramones, who in turn were propelled by the Stooges and the MC5. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote