[jeraveike]

I reckon that not every sport is suitable for the Olympics. It's well known that some of the judo people feel that judo has taken steps backward because of it. Even TKD is boring to watch...with people hopping around doing nothing (quite common as the competitors head to the final rounds). I've never liked fencing in the olympics too because I'd expected Zorro-style epic sword fight not the "you poke me I poke you" competition which is what it is now (I think in saber there's slashing action but I don't know for sure).

Without re-igniting the kendo in olympics issue, I believe that we're safe for now with FIK already taken defensive measures.

Unfortunately it's not like Zorro at all. I can't speak for kendo as I don't do that (yet) but I have tried Western fencing. Again, not an expert but the you poke me I poke you isn't quite correct (but not all that incorrect) but compared to iaido, which I do do, there's something missing and I suspect compared to kendo it would come up lacking with that missing something - I define it as "spirit" for want of a better word. After all, fencing is totally a sport and not so much a way of life.

You are right about the saber though - that does look much better but I was only allowed a foil and they were talking about years before I would be allowed to use a saber.

You can find places that use a rapier for fencing in the style of duelling or "real" fighting but they are few and far between but would seem more like Zorro.

Only my humble opinion though. It's horses for courses at the end of the day.

[AcecePesFeacy]

Maybe Im insane, but I think the Olympics should have Kendo. Yes, its traditional, and yes-- its constantly "growing" or changing. Kendo is not the same as it was 20 years ago, 50 years ago....its always changing.

Olympics is HUGE business that is for sure. What would they change--they would probably recongize the already established international regulations.
They would probably keep the scoring methods, tournaments the same--

About the only down side I see to including Kendo in the Olympics-- you would probably have the same "top players" for most of their life. It would probably be dominated by the same 7 & 8dan--for every nation, every Olympics.

Plus its much more entertaining as a "sporting" event rather than Olympic Fencing.

[payporanymn]

About the only down side I see to including Kendo in the Olympics-- you would probably have the same "top players" for most of their life. It would probably be dominated by the same 7 & 8dan--for every nation, every Olympics.
.

I agree with most of your post (Olympics could bring Kendo to a new level worldwide) but things do change in Kendo, if you look at the all Japan Championships there are a number of constant top players but they rarely dominate for more than a few short years, as it happens in any other sport.

I have been thinking about this for a while, after rereading "Kendo the Definitive Guide" by Ozawa sensei, I noticed he refers to Kendo as a "sport" in the introduction. Western sports are also a way of life for many people and a way of conducting themselves in life. We even have sports psycologists now that help athletes work on the mental aspects of training and competing.

Most Olympic athletes are hardly loaded (money-wise), it becomes a life time dedication for them (as they exit the competitive circuit they become coaches, etc...) so all in all, are we all that different from this people?, or all the guys that play footie regularly and train in amateur clubs, what about people at boxing clubs?. they also go through physical suffering and hardening in their training and is a big part of their life and friendships.

We keep thinking about different mentalities but they are also similar in many ways I think budo is a term that could describe just as well to the sporting spirit of the olympics (not to win but to try harder, to defeat yourself before defeating your opponents, etc...). isolated unsporting behaviour is not representative of this spirit as a whole

Just a thought really...

[lopaayd]

I have been thinking about this for a while, after rereading "Kendo the Definitive Guide" by Ozawa sensei, I noticed he refers to Kendo as a "sport" in the introduction. Western sports are also a way of life for many people and a way of conducting themselves in life.

I would agree with you in the sense that there are ways in which sports can be practiced that spouse values not that different from Budo. However, there are valuable elements of tradition in budo at risk of disappearing depending on the path that future generations will take.

I have to disagree with Kenshi’s statement. I do not think that the Westerners did anything to Judo that the Japanese had not started already. Even after the first decade or so that Judo was part of the Olympic Games, it id not change dramatically as budo other than to witness Westerners competing at high level. The problem with Judo is that, at some point in its recent history, the big people up there decided that Judo would use tournaments as a mean of gaining popularity (and memberships, and government aids, and…) and therefore begun to cater to an audience as massive as possible. In the process of making Judo “digestible” to the audience, they modified the standards of Ippon and forgot about the old rules of decorum. I watch a Judo world championship today and it feels like a circus to me. I cannot help to wonder: if rules of decorum can be enforced in tennis or golf, why cannot proper reihi be in Judo any more? Because it is exciting for the audience, no other reason. I do not think that this is the way to promote budo. There are other ways.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think that, as long as Kendo remains “distant” from the "excitement" of the large audience and keep the standards of ippon, it will evolve, of course, but in the good direction it seems to have evolved in the past decades. As much as it is fun to watch the pictures and clips of the pre-war Kendo, I am happy that it has changed to the refined and beautiful standards of today. If this is the case, I believe that whether kenshi across the world have a more or less positive experience with the words/concepts of budo or sport, Kendo will continue to be what it is today: much more than a mere physical activity.

[Bobdilan]

I can see where you are coming from there, but I am not sure if the result will be automatic show-off shiai and bad reigi. it's a question similar to living in a charming little village vs. living in an aparment in the big city, a lot of people will tend to have different opinions on that.

[TheBest-Host]

[slightly off tangent]
I think sumo as a professional spectator sport has survived pretty intact over the decades. By this I mean that the particularly Japanese cultural forces, rituals, and lifestyle, permeate sumo very deeply, even during the reign of non-Japanese yokozuna. As highly competitive as it is, you do not see any hooting and hollering by the wrestlers and no pumping of fists after a victory. Their rei at the beginning and end of each match seem very sincere to me.

I know that sumo is not in the running to be the next olympic sport, but I thought it might be a good example of how a "professional spectator sport" can still retain the reigi that we believe would be lost in kendo should it become primarily sport-oriented.

-michael

[ashleyjoseph]

It would be too bad if it converts into a olimpyc sport???

[Gskdmidd]

I can see where you are coming from there, but I am not sure if the result will be automatic show-off shiai and bad reigi.

No, not automatic at all, just the contrary. I am sure I did a poor job explaining my position. What I mean is that what we have in Judo today is not the outcome of the unavoidable rules of its alleged evolution from budo to sport, but the result of conscious decisions made by people who were in control of the future of Judo.

[6Rexw51X]

So,
If Kendo were to be an Olympic sport, how would you keep out the commercial aspect?

[wonceinee]

The main thing I'm worried about an Olympic Kendo is the way an ippon is given. Since it would have to be easier for the audience, they might take out the concept of zanshin and all that. Worse, electronic scoring system....

[RogHammon]

Well, then it isn't even kendo anymore. As cool as it would be to see kendo in the olympics....wait, this thread isn't even about kendo in the olympics. Oh, nevermind.zzzzzzzz

[constanyiskancho]

even the olympics itself has changed to a state that most people don't agree with. I don't watch Olympics because to me it's a circus now, not like how it use to be in the 70's and 80's. The 90's they start allowing all kinds of junk. So you know The Olympics wouldn't have Kendo in it's best interest. It would pimp it out to the world like it does the rest of its sports.

The only world event i watch now is the FIFA World Cup, The World Kendo Championships & AJKC(mostly I can only watch by video). That's all i need.

[GinaIsWild]

[slightly off tangent]
I think sumo as a professional spectator sport has survived pretty intact over the decades. By this I mean that the particularly Japanese cultural forces, rituals, and lifestyle, permeate sumo very deeply, even during the reign of non-Japanese yokozuna. As highly competitive as it is, you do not see any hooting and hollering by the wrestlers and no pumping of fists after a victory. Their rei at the beginning and end of each match seem very sincere to me.

I know that sumo is not in the running to be the next olympic sport, but I thought it might be a good example of how a "professional spectator sport" can still retain the reigi that we believe would be lost in kendo should it become primarily sport-oriented.

-michael

I agree with this point about sumo remaining a traditional sport with reigi, even with widespread commercialization and being a popular spectator sport. However, I'm not sure about sumo being a good comparison to kendo. Sumo is not an international sport, in terms of spectating and the vast majority of players. The governing body of sumo is very conservative and traditional, but only has to deal with the sport in Japan. Native Japanese sumo display reigi easily, because Japanese society teaches everyday Japanese to act with a certain degree of politeness and restraint. The foreign sumo in Japan are under immense pressure to conform to traditional Japanese values and norms (which stress a type of reigi both inside the sumo ring and in everyday life).

Kendo is different in that it has started to break out of Japan, and is gaining international membership. More and more Westerners (with their own views of competition, etiquette, and manners) are taking up kendo. Even if people around the world are taught what are polite manners in Japan and kendo, a kendoist will always bring their own cultural background to the way they approach competition.

Despite being taught how to act "right" in kendo (which of course is entirely influenced by what is "right" in traditional Japanese culture), some Westerners in the stress of competition break with the reigi that they are taught and slip into the reigi that they know and grew up with (which is Western-style competition that some may say places more emphasis on winning, getting even, and celebrating victory in comparison to traditional Japanese reigi).

I'm not saying that kendo will lose its traditional Japanese emphasis on reigi if it were to become an international sport, but I think it definitely will be a struggle to retain it in a global arena with so many views on how to properly carry oneself in competition.

[amehoubFomo]

There is more to Kendo than just tournament Kendo and if the Olympics get Kendo then people will just train Kendoists to fight and nothing else which will destroy the true essence of Kendo

[tiereenny]

I totally agree with Saigo, Kendo is more than what a competition has to offer. Maybe we would like to spread kendo like it´d happen if it gets to be olympic, but, having it casted on TV is different than making it olympic and it goes pretty much the same for me with the spote/MA thing... Having a competition doesn´t mean kendo is a Sport.