[yK2VgoEI]

Hi all,

A recruiter has just called to discuss opportunities in Tokyo. It sounds very tempting, especially with the ability to live and train in Japan.

Supposedly, the pay is quite good - except that I have no basis for comparison as I have no idea what the typical salaryman is paid. So if anyone knows how much a salaryman, say of "bucho"/middle-manager level, is typically paid, I would be very grateful for the information. I won't be working as a salaryman, but it will be a good basis for comparison.

In addition, I am also interested in finding out what the typical living costs are like in Tokyo. Could anybody help me to get an idea of how much it typically costs to, for a given month:

• rent a 1 to 2 bedroom flat at somewhere "central" (e.g.inside of the Yamanote line?) and close to a subway/train station;

• the likely living costs, such as food, utilities etc (excluding entertainment/drinking, of course); and

• any other "hidden costs" that may not be readily apparent to a person that have not lived in Japan before.

Also important is the tax situation. I understand that income tax and ward tax must be paid, but there is a possibility to opt-out of the national health insurance (if you have private insurance) and pension contributions?

Any help would be much appreciated!

[cafeviahe]

I'm not sure I can answer your questions fully, so I thought I'd help you find some resources that can help guide you. Below is just a few links and resources. There are a lot more on the net if you look. Books and travel guides also help, and I' recommend buying a few.

Resources:
http://jguide.stanford.edu/site/movi...apan_2117.html
http://www.gaijinpot.com/resources_l.php
http://www.daijob.com/en/support/dailylife

[GooogleGuy]

Cool. Will have a look. Thanks very much.

[simmons latex mattress]

"A recruiter has just called to discuss opportunities in Tokyo. It sounds very tempting, especially with the ability to live and train in Japan."

First, make sure you are realistic in how much training you can fit in. Depending on the hours of your work and how much you will be expected to participate in after work social drinking, you may not fit in as much training as you might think. Granted, there are dojo all over the place with different schedules, but I am sure you know that life tends to get in the way of kendo. Work being one of those things. Be diligent though and you can squeeze in lots of practice.

"In addition, I am also interested in finding out what the typical living costs are like in Tokyo. Could anybody help me to get an idea of how much it typically costs to, for a given month:

rent
the likely living costs, such as food, utilities etc (excluding entertainment/drinking, of course)
any other "hidden costs" that may not be readily apparent to a person that have not lived in Japan before.
the tax situation.
the possibility to opt-out of the national health insurance (if you have private insurance) and pension contributions? "

And now for some budget information:

If you have a choice and don't mind a half an hour commute, you might want to consider living outside of Tokyo. Yes its nice to be right there if you want to be a big city dweller, but there are many nice suburbs around there that will significantly cut your costs. Here's a rough figure, SMALL Tokyo apartment rent will be around 110,000 yen. Live about 30 minutes from Tokyo by express train, your rent can be as low as 50,000 to 60,000 yen. Add in an 10,000 yen train pass and you've saved a ton of money. Learn to sleep on the train and wake up at your needed stop and the commute is just part of your daily sleep.

Food is cheap, SUPER cheap, if you live like a japanese person. Don't be stubborn and buy food to live like you do now. Foreign, imported food is pricey. Also, don't shop from expensive grocery stores at the depato. Find local small grocery stores. Also, shop for different food at different stores. Getting some food from the depato groceries is fine, but definitely not produce. Even the big depato will have separate little produce shops that sell produce at half the price. Little grocery stores here and there do the same. Learn to shop at multiple stores and you save a ton.

Utilities are expensive unless you use the right ones. Electricity is mega expensive. Learn to get a cross wind in your apartment in summer. Run the AC for a few minutes to cool things off, and then shut it off. Heating through the electric AC unit is mega expensive. Get a touyu heater. Electricity heating is like 15,000 a month. Touyu (kerosene) is like 3000 yen a month.

Drinking can be cheap if you find nomihodai (all you can drink, within a certain time frame, usually like 2 hours or something like that). Otherwise you will drink your salary away because liquor is expensive.

Tax is based on your previous years income, so your tax will be cheap for the first year since your Japanese income is 0. Depending on your country of origin, you may still have to pay tax on your foreign earned income in your home country. Some have minimum salaries where this kicks in, and some just make you do taxes no matter what. Not fair to steal money you earned elsewhere, but this ain't gonna change.

Depending on if your company in Japan forces you, you can opt out of National Insurance by not signing up. Once you sign up, you cannot opt out. However, private insurance will be hit or miss as to who accepts it. Different private insurances work differently too so do your homework. Also, I loved national Japanese insurance. Medical care in Japan was cheap and everyone takes it so it makes life easier. It may just be worth doing it. It is in my opinion but our situations are different.

In summary, live like the japanese and you will live cheap. There are many tricks to learn and you can save a small fortune. The idea that living in Japan is expensive is a myth. It comes from people who drink their salaries away or try to maintain their old lifestyles instead of adapting to a new set of rules and living style.

Goodluck! Go for it because it is awesome there. Lots of it sucks too, but most of it is awesome. Sounds funny, but you will see what I mean over time if you go. I miss it.

[crestorinfo]

Do you speak Japanese? If not get learning. I met some Australians in Tokyo last time I was there, they had been there for 6 years and couldn't speak a lick of Japanese. Fair enough their work didn't require them to, but neither does mine!

If you want to have good relationships with kendo people then you need to speak Japanese. Many people think budo terminology is enough, but this is totally wrong. Its nice to know what a monouchi is, but if you can't understand 'raise your arms a little' then frankly you're screwed.

[THOUTHCAW]

Agreed. There is no excuse for not learning the language if you plan on living in another country. I met people who had been there for 20 years and still couldn't speak at all. That is just outright lazy and disrespectful. Although I would add that it is ok if you don't speak it when you arrive as long as you show an effort to learn to speak it while you are there. If you show an effort, people will appreciate it and be patient while you are still learning. Try to fit in some free or very cheap (100 yen per visit) language lessons at the International speaking lounges (Kokusai Koryu Lounges) if it fits your working schedule. They help a lot.

[strmini]

who needs training when you can go on after-work social drinking on a daily basis? >=)

[abossakon]

Thanks for the post nodachi. Since I'm making the move to Tokyo in August I got a lot of value from it.

One thing that people who haven't lived in Japan before might not now about is key money.

This is a nasty hidden cost. Most of my savings from JET will pay my key money for my future apartment in Tokyo. Basically its a payment made to your landlord, the value of which is a multiple of your rent. It's different on a case by case basis, but it can be refundable or partially refundable. There are places that have no key money but the rent is usually higher to compensate for it. For a 100,000 per month apartment in Tokyo, you can expect to pay 300,000 key money moving in.

[Moupponge]

key money.

Key money is evil. Its basically a bribe. Its also readily avoidable, more so if you are non-Japanese.

I cant imagine Tokyo being far different from Osaka, but you should easily be able to find no-key money flats without to much trouble. This can be going through agents that work with non-Japanese (check out ex-pat mags), or you can even find them at normal on-the-street estate agents.

Its because of this key money that there are so many people staying at home with there mummys, and that there are so many available flats in Japan. Its a highly competitive market and - rather than have it empty - many landlords do the no key, no deposit money.

Another option you should look at is moving into a "Gaijin House" for a couple of months and use that to a) find out where you want to live and b) actually find an apt. These Gaijin Houses are basically rooms to let. I stayed in one for 2 months (60% Japanese students who wont pay key money..) before finding my (no key money, no deposit, big, cheap, clean, fully furnished, near 2 stations, etc) flat.

[Storwaytozy]

key money.

Ouch. Thanks for the very helpful information. Hopefully the employer will be paying for my accommodation.

Thanks nodachi. Your post was extremely informative and helpful. I am a married man so chance are I won't be out and about drinking too much - unless it's for business of course .

An official Japanese government website said that the average monthly income for Japanese households is close to 900,000 Yen. Is this right? It's an amazingly high figure I thought, even for Japan.

I don't speak Japanese, but will definitely learn if I do decide to go.

[Diwokfkq]

An official Japanese government website said that the average monthly income for Japanese households is close to 900,000 Yen. Is this right? It's an amazingly high figure I thought, even for Japan.

900,000... whats this a married working couple in mid-career? Sounds a bit high to me.

Officially - if you go by the government - Japan is a land where:

* AIDS is almost unknown
* All the criminals are foreign
* All sex-workers are foreign
* There is no racism
* Women have equal rights
* Everyone is literate

Im sure someone will add more to this list.

If you go out drinking with your business buddies be prepared to test your marriage!!!

Japanese - start learning now. Books night courses... etc. Really. I too have met at least one person who lived in Tokyo for a crazy amount of time (27yrs) and couldnt speak a lick of it.

[sesWaipunsaws]

Ouch. Thanks for the very helpful information. Hopefully the employer will be paying for my accommodation.

Thanks nodachi. Your post was extremely informative and helpful. I am a married man so chance are I won't be out and about drinking too much - unless it's for business of course .

An official Japanese government website said that the average monthly income for Japanese households is close to 900,000 Yen. Is this right? It's an amazingly high figure I thought, even for Japan.

I don't speak Japanese, but will definitely learn if I do decide to go.

900,000 is a load of balls. I concede that the stats here aren't completely congruent with what you describe, but even so you can see that unless each household has 3 full time workers then 900,000 is never going to happen:

http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/figures/index.htm#o