[9mm_fan]

First, Sats isn't attacking anyone. We are brothers in many areas of thought and I would very much like to pay him a visit at this mythical pub someday...

Ah, I see your logic. Because someone has written something on Wikipedia then it must be true.

Come now, by now you should know me better than that. This is just a handy example of a well-worded and widely accepted definition of theory. Today, it is all too common to use "theory" when what is actually meant is "conjecture" or "belief". If people are going to challenge scientific theory, then they have to do it on a level playing field, which means using the same definitions. If you're coming to play, you are required to play on my field, with my ball. Redefining what is and is not theory to suit the argument is a non-starter.

Sorry Perry, this does not hold water. A Theory is something that can be tested but how it is tested i s not defined. Why must it be 'supported by objective, measurable evidence'? just because some person quoted by Wiki said so?

Please explain the difference between 'theories' and 'beliefs' in your view. I am genuinely interested.

Easily. A theory is a description of the way something works, supported by objective evidence that can be measured and verified. A belief is a construct of human emotion in which it is permissible to exclude contradictory evidence. Science doesn't let you do that. Science and religion are two very different things, and not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I am also intrigued by your tendentious comment "everyone (at least here in the US) has the right...blah blah" are you implying that only people in the US have the right to believe anything? Curious.

Oh no, not at all. Sorry if it read like so much of that "America is bestest" crap. I mean that in some places not everyone is free to express their beliefs openly. All are welcome to do so, but please do not confuse religious belief and the scientific method. Please do not try to use the offices of government to indoctrinate my children, either.

As it turns out, in science (and like Nobel, for this bit of the argument I am prepared to exclude Mathematicians) there is really very little that can be expressed as "fact" - only well-supported theory and hypotheses.

[Smalmslobby]

Do they know the world is round? No? shh don't tell them it will be our little secret!

Not "round", so much as "oblate spheroid".

[FreeOEMcheapestPHOTOSHOP]

Are there any scientists out there that can enlighten on this?

How am I doing so far? Like I said, there are damn few "facts" in this world.

[kSmica]

Excellent Perry,

not sure I concur with all of it but I like the cut of your gib.

Thanks for explaining the bit about the definition on 'Theory@

Lee

PS will probably come back to you on this when my brain hurts less

[Roorseprate]

Anyone else is fair game though. I usually get "show me the cow that gave birth to a sheep then I'll believe in evolution" which just shows ignorance of what evolution is.

Technically, this is possible.

[Lypepuddyu]

Not "round", so much as "oblate spheroid".

Okay smarty pants. Behave.

How am I doing so far? Like I said, there are damn few "facts" in this world.

I'll give you 8 out of 10 for effort

[ClapekDodki]

Do they know the world is round? No? shh don't tell them it will be our little secret!

I think they've got that one - but I daren't ask!

[Jenisoisy]

I tell you what, won't we get a bloody shock if we are wrong!

[Casyimipist]

Technically, this is possible.

Only if you implant a fertilised sheep egg in a cow's womb and make them both immunodeficient and you manage somehow to attach the placenta in the right place etc. But it still be 100% sheep, conceived by sheep parents. If you could get a ram to shag a cow (just imagine that for a second. The ram goes to a club, gets drunk and wakes up next to a cow. Imagine what his friends would say. "Jeez, that one you shagged last night - she looked like a real cow") then nothing would happen. And the poor old ram would need a high chair to stand on to achieve such an act.

Did I really just type all that rubbish? It must be time for bed.

[9Goarveboofe]

I tell you what, won't we get a bloody shock if we are wrong!

You know that transatlantic cruise you were planning? Be very, very careful. The US fell off the edge of the world a long time ago!

[qilmuz6v]

I tell you what, won't we get a bloody shock if we are wrong!

No, not really. If someday, we find real evidence that a supernatural being is at the heart of everything, then I'll take a good look at it, ask lots of questions and (if it all checks out) accept that as a well-supported hypothesis as well. At this time, we can only fail to reject the hypothesis that God is real, and that all of the things we have learned about the universe have been made that way to test our belief.

However, failing to reject ain't proof by a longshot.

[WhileKelf]

No, not really. If someday, we find real evidence that a supernatural being is at the heart of everything, then I'll take a good look at it, ask lots of questions and accept that as a well-supported hypothesis as well. At this time, we can only fail to reject the hypothesis that God is real, and that all of the things we have learned about the universe have been made that way to test our belief.

However, failing to reject ain't proof by a longshot.

You gotta have faith, man! Because at the end of the day, that's all the creationists have!

[Giselle]

Okay smarty pants. Behave.

Can't help it...too much German in the background, I'm afraid.

[fount_pirat]

"Our life is like a journey on which, as we advance, the landscape takes a different view from that which it presented at first, and changes again, as we come nearer. This is just what happens--especially with our wishes. We often find something else, nay, something better than what we were looking for; and what we look for, we often find on a very different path from that on which we began a vain search. Instead of finding, as we expected, pleasure, happiness, joy, we get experience, insight, knowledge--a real and permanent blessing, instead of a fleeting and illusory one."

~Arthur Schopenhauer
(1788-1860)

[Crundaangerge]

Sorry Sparv it is NOT fact.

You are very hard with facts. I won't list the proofs. If you want, take a look at Al Gore's film (you can illegally download it if you don't want to buy it, or borrow it in a library). I don't like the film itself, nor Al Gore, but that's a good beginning.
Let's say that's a very well supported theory.

I'm calling this "fact" because it's far shorter than "very well supported theory". This kind of reflection about non-essential distinctions (because at one point or another, you have to think that very well supported theories are facts, or you don't do anything) was called "intellectual self-abuse" by one of my professor (who is a scientist in activity).

About my rude answer: I'm not drinking, I'm thinking in english, not my native language. I'm fed up with this type of argument, and it's late, BTW I go to bed.
You're right, it was way too agressive. I'm sorry and ashamed.

I don't even want real evidence for the supernatural being. I'm waiting for a supernatural being theory which is able to predict only one natural phenomenum. I'm still waiting.

[orillaVar]

The movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind.

Yep... I'd agree...

Texas was always marginal on the sanity side though wasn't it?

[vaalmerruutel]

Sorry Sparv it is NOT fact. Actually, global warming is very much a fact. There is a wealth of evidence supporting the fact that, not only is the temperature of our climate rising, it is rising very quickly. However, the cause of global warming is still very much in doubt (Al Gore's wisdom not withstanding! ). In fact, I read a very interesting theory with a large amount of supporting data just a couple of weeks ago. It ties our current global warming trend to decreased overall activity of the sun, which causes there to be much less cloud cover in the atmosphere. Needless to say that scientist is not very popular at the moment, despite having very good supporting evidence.
Let's say that's a very well supported theory. But no more well supported than several other theories. However, the "man-made" global warming theory is very popular since it resonates with the ordinary person, something that science rarely does. This causes it to be popular with the politicians also, since anything that allows them to stir up the people is good in their eyes.

Texas was always marginal on the sanity side though wasn't it? What exactly do you mean by "was"? We aren't dead you know.

[BoarmomorurrY]

Texan: “Where are you from?”
Harvard graduate: “I come from a place where we do not end our sentences with prepositions.”
Texan: “OK, where are you from, Jackass?”

[Heaneisismich]

my parents dont believe in fossils or dinosaurs. (even tho i have a troglodite fossil in my room. i collect rocks.)
i cant help but question their logic when there is so much evidence to prove otherwise.
all of those people that say that people vote/believe because of how they were raised arent 100% correct.

btw god is a flying spaghetti monster

[Wheldcobchoto]

btw god is a flying spaghetti monster

And the world is Flat... Its that Damn Nasa/Big Brother/Government Conspiracy who faked the moon landing who are faking the shuttle missions and the pictures of the earth as a globe. DAMN THEM!!! Won't they accept that some dude with a white beard simply created everything in 7 days???