Myo Sim Kendo - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**polleroy** · 09-29-2006, 08:00 AM

"Myo Sim Kendo was also founded by Grand Master Sung Hong, and is based on traditional Japanese sword fighting. Myo Sim Kendo is distinguished from some of the more traditional aspects of pure Japanese Kendo. For example, Myo Sim Kendo is more combat-oriented and has less of the formality associated with beginning and ending a technique."

http://www.student.virginia.edu/~myo...ndo/index.html

a "style" found by one person....hum..be careful

**Suvaxal** · 05-19-2008, 04:32 AM

Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor?

My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences.

My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts.

**diundasmink** · 05-19-2008, 06:38 AM

Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor?

My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences.

My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts.

Notwithstanding that this is a four year old thread and most of the people you are addressing do not post here any more, I did some research:

http://myosim.com/images/lineage.gif

According to this chart on their website, their only link to Japanese martial arts is through Shudokan and Shotokan karate. Where's the kendo?

Right at the end of a short history of the art, it says that the founder studied "Japanese kenjutsu and kendo... from which he founded Myo Sim Kendo" (http://myosim.com/karate/index.html). Interestingly there is no mention of this on the lineage chart nor is there any mention of what style of kenjutsu was studied (there is no such thing as generic 'kenjutsu'). There is also no mention of what rank he attained in kendo, if any.

According to http://myosim.com/karate/WhatMSKKis.pdf, kendo was not taught at this dojo until 1999, even though Myo Sim was supposedly founded in the sixties.

As you recommended observing a class, I did the next best thing and found some videos of their 'kendo' on youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4hbXcKIq3KQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sgooNVhcdZU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7ZK6r8hRt-E
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZixViWNygT0

My judgement, based on the facts observed in these videos and on their website, is that the dojo in question is teaching made-up twirly sword dancing that bears no similarity at all to kendo, nor any other Japanese sword art.

Now this might be fine for some people, but it's of no interest to anyone who wants to practise kendo - such as the originator of this thread.

**GZFL2tDA** · 05-19-2008, 07:10 AM

Why does the guy in the videos keep saying "chumbi", which mean "ready" when they are bowing instead of "kyunge" ...

What's the little pokey thing after the chiburi? Would it be that the strawberry kool-aid wouldn't come off the blade in practice (due to the weak/improper chiburi) so whomever made this up stood there and did that and at least some of it ran off the blade ...

At 2:30 in the 4th video what's the guy on the right doing with his head/neck?! ("come on, betcha can't hit me, come on!")

I like that sliding attack at 1:30 in the second video. Maybe I will try that in class as a surprise attack against my Sensei when we are lined up for jigeiko! (or maybe I should wait 'till there's a visiting sensei and then try it!)

Well, at least it brought a smile to my face this morning.

**Pharmadryg** · 05-19-2008, 07:42 AM

It was a move out of Mortal Combat!

**Guaranano** · 05-19-2008, 09:28 AM

Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor?

Nobody here is saying that. The people who made the negative comments about Myo Sim have seen the videos and, as I understand it, have spoken with a couple of those people and have formed their opinions based on fact.

My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago.

What dojo?

Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences.

See Oroshi's post for their "interesting" history.

My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts.

Practice what you preach. If you had done a little digging you would have found what Oroshi posted.

**Anykeylo** · 05-19-2008, 01:49 PM

I can't remember the thread, but I'm pretty sure we already gave it to these guys...thoroughly. Actually, I'm pretty sure some guy offered me a plane ticket to fight him. I'm still waiting for that ticket.

**nerohedfrs** · 05-19-2008, 03:09 PM

It's alive, ALIVE, Whohahahaha

**Idorsearogele** · 05-19-2008, 05:19 PM

Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor?

My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences.

Hello!

Welcome to the forums.

So, as Shinkenshi-san asked, what "traditional" kendo dojo did you attend? If you have attended a real AUSKF dojo you'd know the stuff they do is not even kendo and certainly wouldn't be sticking up for these guys who made it all up. Yes, it's fake stuff... Sorry.

And, I can't see an AUSKF dojo member even wanting to practice at a McDojo like this one. It doesn't even compare... I take it you are not an AUSKF dojo member. Right?

My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts. Please start training in a real AUSKF dojo before you start defending this group so you can learn the difference between correct and incorrect kendo.

Until then, I'd suggest not saying stuff like this. No offense of course.

Kaoru

**LomodiorCon** · 05-19-2008, 06:31 PM

Anyone interested in practicing sanctioned AUSKF/FIK kendo would be welcome to join us at Northern Virginia Budokai in Alexandria, VA located not far geographically from the particular group mentioned in this thread.

www.capitalareabudokai.org

**soryalomop** · 02-03-2009, 06:59 PM

Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks.

**DoctorNelsonOnten** · 02-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks.

Have you read the previous posts in this thread? Oroshi did a bit of digging and presented facts that exposed some major holes in the history of Myo Sim. Read the sources he cited, think about it, and then ask yourself again if you really are learning something legitimate.

Also, you might want to check the dates on the previous posts before practicing thread necromancy.

**envenonearo** · 02-03-2009, 08:57 PM

You can't blame somebody for wanting to defend their dojo, even if the thread is old, he's probably thinking that anyone who runs a search on myo sim will see this and get the wrong impression. However, hopefully after talking with members for a bit he will realize that what his McSoke has been feeding him about this style doesn't remotely resemble reality, find himself an actual kendo dojo and the resurrection will still have been worthwhile.

**Weislenalkata** · 02-04-2009, 08:35 AM

Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks.

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*takes breath*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No.

Seriously, comparing that crap to real kenjutsu is like me comparing some crippled kid in special ed, to a pro football player.

**Ferrotoral** · 02-06-2009, 09:59 AM

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*takes breath*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No.

Seriously, comparing that crap to real kenjutsu is like me comparing some crippled kid in special ed, to a pro football player.

What the hell is your problem?

**freddyujnf** · 02-06-2009, 10:05 AM

You can't blame somebody for wanting to defend their dojo, even if the thread is old, he's probably thinking that anyone who runs a search on myo sim will see this and get the wrong impression. However, hopefully after talking with members for a bit he will realize that what his McSoke has been feeding him about this style doesn't remotely resemble reality, find himself an actual kendo dojo and the resurrection will still have been worthwhile.

Exactly!!! I understand your argument but it is a good Dojo with very good teachers and students and I like my dojo very much and while some of you are politely questioning its legality which I can respect others are just plain badmouthing it.

**goatteatromiag** · 02-06-2009, 10:14 AM

Just keep drinking that kool-aid sir.

**sykanaxer** · 02-06-2009, 10:54 AM

Exactly!!! I understand your argument but it is a good Dojo with very good teachers and students and I like my dojo very much and while some of you are politely questioning its legality which I can respect others are just plain badmouthing it.

I'm sure the people are respectable individuals but looking at the information available from their own sources calls into question the legitimacy of the entire school. Being a good instructor of something that isn't legitimate makes you wonder if they knowingly are scamming people.

This brings me to my questions for you: would you continue practicing something knowing you've been practicing a made up martial art? What specific kenjutsu school does your school claim influence? Why does your kendo look so different from kendo that the rest of the world practices?

Also, Annonymous may be blunt but he does have a point. What you do is hands down nothing like anything real kenjutsu looks like. Look at kata from Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, Kashima Shinto Ryu, or Owari Kan Ryu just to name a few.

Please understand, I'm not trying to antagoize or belittle you. I ask these specific questions because I want to know exactly what is being taught to students of this particular school.

**irridgita** · 02-06-2009, 11:17 AM

What the hell is your problem?

I think that he ran out of breath.

Other than that he has a valid/legitimate point.
We've been here before.
I can predict how this thread will go. People will come up with scientific proof that your Kendo is not Kendo is not Kenjutsu is not Iaido is not Iaijutsu is not Batto Jutsu and so on and so on. You will reply that your Sensei is a sacred saint and we should all bite our tongues for disagreeing. Scientific proof will add. Nasty words will fly, death challenges pop out of the wood work. And when it becomes too funny the mighty Spaminator will restore order in the virtual universe.
Now it's up to you to proof me wrong.

**Dwencejed** · 02-06-2009, 01:24 PM

Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo.

1. What style of kenjutsu has Mr. Sung H. Hong studied?
2. What rank did he achieve in it?
3. What rank did he achieve in kendo?
4. Isn't naming a style one thing when it's more like something else rather underhanded?

It is not fake.

5. How would you know?

09-29-2006, 08:00 AM	#21
polleroy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 372 Senior Member	"Myo Sim Kendo was also founded by Grand Master Sung Hong, and is based on traditional Japanese sword fighting. Myo Sim Kendo is distinguished from some of the more traditional aspects of pure Japanese Kendo. For example, Myo Sim Kendo is more combat-oriented and has less of the formality associated with beginning and ending a technique." http://www.student.virginia.edu/~myo...ndo/index.html a "style" found by one person....hum..be careful Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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05-19-2008, 04:32 AM	#22
Suvaxal Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 515 Senior Member	Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor? My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences. My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 06:38 AM	#23
diundasmink Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 539 Senior Member	Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor? My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences. My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts. Notwithstanding that this is a four year old thread and most of the people you are addressing do not post here any more, I did some research: http://myosim.com/images/lineage.gif According to this chart on their website, their only link to Japanese martial arts is through Shudokan and Shotokan karate. Where's the kendo? Right at the end of a short history of the art, it says that the founder studied "Japanese kenjutsu and kendo... from which he founded Myo Sim Kendo" (http://myosim.com/karate/index.html). Interestingly there is no mention of this on the lineage chart nor is there any mention of what style of kenjutsu was studied (there is no such thing as generic 'kenjutsu'). There is also no mention of what rank he attained in kendo, if any. According to http://myosim.com/karate/WhatMSKKis.pdf, kendo was not taught at this dojo until 1999, even though Myo Sim was supposedly founded in the sixties. As you recommended observing a class, I did the next best thing and found some videos of their 'kendo' on youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4hbXcKIq3KQ http://youtube.com/watch?v=sgooNVhcdZU http://youtube.com/watch?v=7ZK6r8hRt-E http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZixViWNygT0 My judgement, based on the facts observed in these videos and on their website, is that the dojo in question is teaching made-up twirly sword dancing that bears no similarity at all to kendo, nor any other Japanese sword art. Now this might be fine for some people, but it's of no interest to anyone who wants to practise kendo - such as the originator of this thread. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 07:10 AM	#24
GZFL2tDA Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 351 Senior Member	Why does the guy in the videos keep saying "chumbi", which mean "ready" when they are bowing instead of "kyunge" ... What's the little pokey thing after the chiburi? Would it be that the strawberry kool-aid wouldn't come off the blade in practice (due to the weak/improper chiburi) so whomever made this up stood there and did that and at least some of it ran off the blade ... At 2:30 in the 4th video what's the guy on the right doing with his head/neck?! ("come on, betcha can't hit me, come on!") I like that sliding attack at 1:30 in the second video. Maybe I will try that in class as a surprise attack against my Sensei when we are lined up for jigeiko! (or maybe I should wait 'till there's a visiting sensei and then try it!) Well, at least it brought a smile to my face this morning. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 07:42 AM	#25
Pharmadryg Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 435 Senior Member	It was a move out of Mortal Combat! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 09:28 AM	#26
Guaranano Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor? Nobody here is saying that. The people who made the negative comments about Myo Sim have seen the videos and, as I understand it, have spoken with a couple of those people and have formed their opinions based on fact. My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. What dojo? Although I don't often practice with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them. Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences. See Oroshi's post for their "interesting" history. My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts. Practice what you preach. If you had done a little digging you would have found what Oroshi posted. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 01:49 PM	#27
Anykeylo Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	I can't remember the thread, but I'm pretty sure we already gave it to these guys...thoroughly. Actually, I'm pretty sure some guy offered me a plane ticket to fight him. I'm still waiting for that ticket. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 03:09 PM	#28
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	It's alive, ALIVE, Whohahahaha Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-19-2008, 05:19 PM	#29
Idorsearogele Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 435 Senior Member	Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions? It "seems" Korean? Some things "seem" suspicious? Why not visit the dojo, watch a class and talk to the instructor? My perspective is as a long time student of traditional kendo in a NYC dojo who moved to Charlottesville some years ago. *Although I don't often practice* with the Myo Sim folks, I know and respect them.** Yes, it's different from traditional Japanese kendo, but there is an intersting history behind the differences. Hello! Welcome to the forums. So, as Shinkenshi-san asked, what "traditional" kendo dojo did you attend? If you have attended a real AUSKF dojo you'd know the stuff they do is not even kendo and certainly wouldn't be sticking up for these guys who made it all up. Yes, it's fake stuff... Sorry. And, I can't see an AUSKF dojo member even wanting to practice at a McDojo like this one. It doesn't even compare... I take it you are not an AUSKF dojo member. Right? My advice is to keep an opinion mind and make your own judgements based on facts. Please start training in a real AUSKF dojo before you start defending this group so you can learn the difference between correct and incorrect kendo. Until then, I'd suggest not saying stuff like this. No offense of course. Kaoru Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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05-19-2008, 06:31 PM	#30
LomodiorCon Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Anyone interested in practicing sanctioned AUSKF/FIK kendo would be welcome to join us at Northern Virginia Budokai in Alexandria, VA located not far geographically from the particular group mentioned in this thread. www.capitalareabudokai.org Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-03-2009, 06:59 PM	#31
soryalomop Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 617 Senior Member	Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-03-2009, 07:55 PM	#32
DoctorNelsonOnten Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks. Have you read the previous posts in this thread? Oroshi did a bit of digging and presented facts that exposed some major holes in the history of Myo Sim. Read the sources he cited, think about it, and then ask yourself again if you really are learning something legitimate. Also, you might want to check the dates on the previous posts before practicing thread necromancy. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-03-2009, 08:57 PM	#33
envenonearo Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 464 Senior Member	You can't blame somebody for wanting to defend their dojo, even if the thread is old, he's probably thinking that anyone who runs a search on myo sim will see this and get the wrong impression. However, hopefully after talking with members for a bit he will realize that what his McSoke has been feeding him about this style doesn't remotely resemble reality, find himself an actual kendo dojo and the resurrection will still have been worthwhile. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-04-2009, 08:35 AM	#34
Weislenalkata Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. ShinKenshi what facts? It is not fake. So please do not insult my Dojo thanks. BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA takes breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. Seriously, comparing that crap to real kenjutsu is like me comparing some crippled kid in special ed, to a pro football player. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-06-2009, 09:59 AM	#35
Ferrotoral Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 542 Senior Member	BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA takes breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. Seriously, comparing that crap to real kenjutsu is like me comparing some crippled kid in special ed, to a pro football player. What the hell is your problem? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

02-06-2009, 10:05 AM	#36
freddyujnf Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 425 Senior Member	You can't blame somebody for wanting to defend their dojo, even if the thread is old, he's probably thinking that anyone who runs a search on myo sim will see this and get the wrong impression. However, hopefully after talking with members for a bit he will realize that what his McSoke has been feeding him about this style doesn't remotely resemble reality, find himself an actual kendo dojo and the resurrection will still have been worthwhile. Exactly!!! I understand your argument but it is a good Dojo with very good teachers and students and I like my dojo very much and while some of you are politely questioning its legality which I can respect others are just plain badmouthing it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-06-2009, 10:14 AM	#37
goatteatromiag Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	Just keep drinking that kool-aid sir. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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02-06-2009, 10:54 AM	#38
sykanaxer Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 390 Senior Member	Exactly!!! I understand your argument but it is a good Dojo with very good teachers and students and I like my dojo very much and while some of you are politely questioning its legality which I can respect others are just plain badmouthing it. I'm sure the people are respectable individuals but looking at the information available from their own sources calls into question the legitimacy of the entire school. Being a good instructor of something that isn't legitimate makes you wonder if they knowingly are scamming people. This brings me to my questions for you: would you continue practicing something knowing you've been practicing a made up martial art? What specific kenjutsu school does your school claim influence? Why does your kendo look so different from kendo that the rest of the world practices? Also, Annonymous may be blunt but he does have a point. What you do is hands down nothing like anything real kenjutsu looks like. Look at kata from Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, Kashima Shinto Ryu, or Owari Kan Ryu just to name a few. Please understand, I'm not trying to antagoize or belittle you. I ask these specific questions because I want to know exactly what is being taught to students of this particular school. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-06-2009, 11:17 AM	#39
irridgita Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 470 Senior Member	What the hell is your problem? I think that he ran out of breath. Other than that he has a valid/legitimate point. We've been here before. I can predict how this thread will go. People will come up with scientific proof that your Kendo is not Kendo is not Kenjutsu is not Iaido is not Iaijutsu is not Batto Jutsu and so on and so on. You will reply that your Sensei is a sacred saint and we should all bite our tongues for disagreeing. Scientific proof will add. Nasty words will fly, death challenges pop out of the wood work. And when it becomes too funny the mighty Spaminator will restore order in the virtual universe. Now it's up to you to proof me wrong. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

02-06-2009, 01:24 PM	#40
Dwencejed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 474 Senior Member	Its more of a Kenjutsu style than kendo. 1. What style of kenjutsu has Mr. Sung H. Hong studied? 2. What rank did he achieve in it? 3. What rank did he achieve in kendo? 4. Isn't naming a style one thing when it's more like something else rather underhanded? It is not fake. 5. How would you know? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote