[Enrivaanonock]

Thanks for the explanation Imouto. It would seem then to be the infamous "Olympic Spirit" which is the corrupting influence, and not something inherent in fencing. It's just a pity that fencing's biggest stage has become an arena for displaying the worst behaviour, rather than the best.

b

No problem.

Though I could name a number of sports where I saw abhorrent behaviour. I find the professional athletes to be much worse with behaviour than that of amateurs.

I don't think the Olympic Spirit is a bad thing, well not the ideals of it. I honestly believe it's the individual athlete. Perhaps it's with all the pampering that they receive that causes them to be self-centred toddlers. I've seen some interviews with athletes where they thank their entire support crew and families rather than talk about their achievement. Unfortunately, they don't get aired as much as the athletes who talk about their win. Just something I noticed with the telecast of this particular Olympics.

[Arratherimi]

I think the Olympic ideal is great too, but how it works in practice is another thing altogether. And also I think the motto "Faster, Higher, Stronger" leads to the worship of youth. That's the other great thing about kendo: it's not obssessed with that pseudo-classical ideal of the youthful body and what it can do, but rather the totality of the human 'body-mind', which includes the experience of age.

Elite athletes by definition have to be indulged to an incredible degree. Their families have to make sacrifices, both emotional and financial. Imagine growing up the sibling of an Olympian, it would be like seeing your parents admit every day that they have a favourite and it's not you. And frequently in order to excel at this one thing, athletes sacrifice the kind of balanced emotional development that the rest of us take for granted. They are frequently self-centred, arrogant and out of touch with anyone around them that cannot cater to their needs. Later on, when they retire, they realise that they don't know much. I think it was Susie O'Neill, the Australian swimmer who lamented (something like): "when I retired in my mid twenties I found that all of my friends from school were becoming doctors, lawyers, plumbers, parents. They all had skills and careers. All I knew was how to swim fast."

So yes, toddlers indeed. I think it is what the Olympics demand.

b

[errolespopume]

why is kendo not an olympic sport when water polo and pellet gun shooting is?

You answered your own question.

But the traditional answer is: because kendo is not a sport. Winning is not the most important thing. There is far more to it. And for these things you cannot give people medals.

[soprofaxel]

It would seem then to be the infamous "Olympic Spirit" which is the corrupting influence, and not something inherent in fencing. It's just a pity that fencing's biggest stage has become an arena for displaying the worst behaviour, rather than the best.

That's exactly what I think.

Why would everything, but kendo be exempt from having ettiquite?

That's not what I meant. As Imouto explained, etiquette does exist and is exercised in fencing (I cannot tell about other sports, but a certain spirit does exist there, too, I think). But, as you certainly enjoy the reiho in kendo, you cannot expect other sports to be exactly the same. Kendo encourages etiquette through strict reiho, this is a part of it. And just because fencing doesn't encourage etiquette in the same way and with the same intensity that doesn't mean it doesn't encourage it at all. If reiho is a reason why you enjoy keiko so much, be happy that you found kendo, but don't expect every other sport to be like this and don't dismiss every other sport because it doesn't suite your picture, I would say.

[movlabc]

So yes, toddlers indeed. I think it is what the Olympics demand.

The Olympics also demand that it be good TV. The emotional responses, the in-your-face attitude, the broadcasters lap that up. What the hell are they going to do with a kendo match where if it weren't for the flags, nobody could tell who won? You won't get it from the competitors - sonkyo, rei, pack up your stuff, win or lose.

[FotoCihasWewb]

In England a 'fencer' can be someone who erects 6' x 6 ' wooden larchlap panels around someones garden to make a fence.

Wouldn't be just wunnerful if one of those turned up at the Olympics and thrust a big eff-off wooden panel at some ponce with a toothpick.

A boy can dream can't he?

[cl004]

I have never practice fencing so I cannot judge their poor etiquestte nor I care. Only thing I care at this time is doing my suburi.... use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..use my left hand..

[Aswdwdfg]

In England a 'fencer' can be someone who erects 6' x 6 ' wooden larchlap panels around someones garden to make a fence.

Wouldn't be just wunnerful if one of those turned up at the Olympics and thrust a big eff-off wooden panel at some ponce with a toothpick.

A boy can dream can't he?

hehe "Where do you want this luv?"

[Natashasuw]

In England a 'fencer' can be someone who erects 6' x 6 ' wooden larchlap panels around someones garden to make a fence.

Wouldn't be just wunnerful if one of those turned up at the Olympics and thrust a big eff-off wooden panel at some ponce with a toothpick.

A boy can dream can't he?

Wasn't it the scots walking around with those big poles?

Could be used for fencing too, just wack them once and you have a knock out:-))

[Enfotanab]

hehe "Where do you want this luv?"

Of course the etiquette could be the 'giving of the estimate'. that ancient and honourable tradition of the unskilled tradesman which involves;

Pacing
Scratching of the head
Sucking of the teeth
and the well rehearsed kiai of 'it's gonna cost yer'

Wasn't it the scots walking around with those big poles?

Could be used for fencing too, just wack them once and you have a knock out:-))

Do you refer to the 'caber' or are you referring to Scots of the homosexual variety who have met well endowed friends from Warsaw and Krakow?

[portoskins]

Wasn't it the scots walking around with those big poles?

Do you refer to the 'caber' or are you referring to Scots of the homosexual variety who have met well endowed friends from Warsaw and Krakow?

Oh my goodness . . . Sats . . . you always seem to find the silver lining in things

[Wrencytet]

Greeting and respect to all of you. If your reading this I can belive you have studyed a sword fighting style.
As I have. I am a high school sabre coach. I have been teaching for 13 years. I was a competing fencer in my 12 to 39 years of age, I won many medals and took 18th place at summer nats. div and sectionals champion many times.
I learned how to fence and made many friends from around the world, I spent a year in japan and had a friend who had a black belt in kendo when I was in the marines. He was very nice and showed me his skill and gave me his friendship.
His name was sgt Deheart I belive he marryed a lady in Japan. I wish him great happyness.
As to the display of rude behavior in fencing. Some of it is true, we have people who display shameful behavior and great skill. We have coaches who do the same. We do not give rank belts for pure knowledge, it is your abilty to win that gets you rank an A rating or B rating and so on down to E, and then U unrated. A being the highest, and then you get points for getting on a us team for where you place in Nat meets. As a adult and a coach I train my students to be respectful and honest. Is there cheating going on in fencing sure - a judge who likes one fencer more than an other could give him a point or match. We catch them once in a while and they get hell for it up to being remove as a judge, Do fencers get call
on unappropriate behavior, yes they can get yellow red and black card, which are warning, point for the other fencer and a black card gets them removed from the meet. or if it's real bad out of the u.s.fencing assoc for life.
As for the yelling Sabre is the most active loud weapon We yell. we get excited and we scream for our guys and get happy and sad and boo and do all that. I am very proud of my team boys and girls. Hugs are part of our makeup. Our kids cry and shead tear of happyness and sadness, But My friends I think they would be your friends too They would love to fence you and share a coke or icecream with you, They can see and know skill when they see it. They are proud of their sport as you are. you show respect as they do. I get hugs and tears and my fencers get mad as anyone when they think they are disrespected. yes we have fencers who do nuttey things like toss their mask but did you know you get a black card if you do and you are out of the meet then. and If I am your coach your in deep dodo. don't shake hand at the end of a bout black card out you go and again your walking in the smelly stuff. But if you think you should have won a match and the judge was wrong and you have tears in your eyes and your mad and your 16 years old I am going to give your some space and try to get you talking and back to normal. We are human and we fence because we love it and in sabre I want my kids to be excited and have fun. your style is for combat and you train for it ours is a game with game rules and we
plan to get the kids up for the match and bout. if you were fighting my guy you would have 79 other kids yelling for our guy to win thats a lot of stuff coming at you. your fighting our support and our guy. get your own guys yelling for you.
and at the end of the day on the way home on the team bus they talk and bond for life when they are 89 they will talk about the championship they help our team win. and when I die I can see all the faces of my kids an smile.
cause they bring life to our fencing, i share tears and smiles on their way to college. and they came back and see me ever year. I have them then their kids. I hope you have a bond as strong as ours.
I saw a video of a kendo disarm in sabre it would be called a bind. we would do it with one hand your use two cause you hold your sword with two same move. I would yell my head off if you were my guy and did that. great job.
in the video the people who were watching did too. So maybe we are not so different, we fence because we love it and we make friends and fight hard. And if you look for rudeness you will find it but if you look for friendship it will be there.
we have good fencers with hot tempers and we have good fencers with golden hearts. we are people like you.
Godbless you all
Coach gandy

[gSjQEEmq]

"Studyed" "Happyness"

Chaucer flashbacks...

[VeniHemealm]

It amazes me that people think behavior in kendo is so much above other sports/arts. At a recent tournament I saw coaching from the sideline in english, japanese and korean. Certainly there was some celebrating as well. And the coaching was done by sensei who know it is against the rules.

You stay in kendo long enough and you will see the good, the bad and the ugly. Am I a saint, not by a long shot. At one time or another I have been guilty of behavior that should have been better. That's why I keep going, to try and better myself. Some day it will happen.

[9mm_fan]

Not showing emotion is a sort of cultural trope, as much as the Japanese say it is part of budo seishin and all that. It is as much of a trope of Japanese-ness as yelling, shouting, crying, etc are tropes of the passionate nature of fencing, especially the stereotypical Latin temperament.

However a martial art that was developed through the death of many thousands of people, i.e kendo, should be a serious and sober affair. Celebrating the death of another person is a low form of behaviour, and seeing it as a death rather than just a sporting victory honours those who gave their lives under the sword. b

[TXmjLW9b]

Just starting in Kendo, so am really excited about the whole thing, but I do feel that it should be part of the Olympics as well, in the end, it's still a sport.

Replying to what ben suggests that Kendo has roots in warfare, well there are many other sports in the Olympics which are also have paths leading to the battlefield, but I think we all moved on now where we can adapt Kendo and other spots to more civil matters where we can celebate arts and sports these in safe and honest sporting tournaments.

With all competitions, there is bad and good players.

[QQQQQ-Trek]

Just starting in Kendo, so am really excited about the whole thing, but I do feel that it should be part of the Olympics as well, in the end, it's still a sport.

Replying to what ben suggests that Kendo has roots in warfare, well there are many other sports in the Olympics which are also have paths leading to the battlefield, but I think we all moved on now where we can adapt Kendo and other spots to more civil matters where we can celebate arts and sports these in safe and honest sporting tournaments.

With all competitions, there is bad and good players.

The question of whether or not kendo should be in the Olympics has been beaten to death and I would recommend you take a look at the threads cited here. In summary, many feel having kendo in the Olympics would cheapen it as it would likely enter a downward spiral and become focused on who hit first and would toss out everything that is required for yukodatotsu. On top of that, we have the World Kendo Championships every three years already so why bring it to a venue where there would invariably be more pressure to win no matter the cost and become even further removed from budo?

[jakitula]

The question of whether or not kendo should be in the Olympics has been beaten to death and I would recommend you take a look at the threads cited here. In summary, many feel having kendo in the Olympics would cheapen it as it would likely enter a downward spiral and become focused on who hit first and would toss out everything that is required for yukodatotsu. On top of that, we have the World Kendo Championships every three years already so why bring it to a venue where there would invariably be more pressure to win no matter the cost and become even further removed from budo?

I'm not a fan of the olympic idea, but the only positive thing that I can think of which would come of it would be potentially more interest in kendo or more people taking it up. I am curious if the addition of TKD and Judo experienced a long term uptake in students or not. Anyone have any statistics on that for other martial arts/sports or other newly introduced events.

[Pharmaciest]

I'm not a fan of the olympic idea, but the only positive thing that I can think of which would come of it would be potentially more interest in kendo or more people taking it up. I am curious if the addition of TKD and Judo experienced a long term uptake in students or not. Anyone have any statistics on that for other martial arts/sports or other newly introduced events.

I doubt kendo would get the airtime/exposure, likely the only ones who would watch it are those that already do kendo.

[gWhya5ct]

I doubt kendo would get the airtime/exposure, likely the only ones who would watch it are those that already do kendo.

As said in earlier threads, they've even been talking about removing fencing because A) it's too fast to see what happens on TV B) It got a very small audience and hence little commercial value.
Given how much more popular and understood fencing is, why on earth, short of the Koreans bribing everyone, would the IOC put kendo in the Olympics?.