[Markdogas]

Hmmm, to name and shame your ex-students?

http://www.junseiryu.org/tsuihousha_.html

Especially from a school with such a prestigious and long lineage:

Lineage (click on image for a closer look)

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Would you name/shame an ex-student for crimes of insubordination and disrespect?

[popillio]

It looks like a long lineage but if you look closely, Brian Wrightson is the founder of Hankyo Kenpo; Dr. Ash McKee is the founder of of Junsei Ryu...and there are other founders in there. I don't know anything about kenpo, from what I can see, this looks like modern art at best.

[Xfxhbcxp]

I am fully aware of the 'lineage'...

[lidya-sggf]

This reminds me of the forums for the World of Warcraft... "XYZ is a dirty ninja hackzor,...and is without clan or purpose."

To answer your question though, the only legitimate reason I could see for naming/shaming an ex-student is if they were trying to teach or in some way use the name of the group that they were rejected from and as a result cause harm to that group's reputation. I definitely wouldn't go into the detail that these guys did though... A simple, "XYZ is not affiliated in any way with ABC Dojo" would be sufficient in my opinion.

[DariushPetresku]

Oh dear. Posting a translation software version (i.e. gobbly crap) of their illustrious lineage on the official HP. I thought only Japanese did that (in reverse of course)...

淳精流は何であるか。 淳精流は淳精流武術連盟または指導の下に来る準の組織の何れかの略称である。 一流の淳精流は「純粋な形式の"として日本語から緩く翻訳する; " 純粋な流の" または" 知見の"の純粋な伝達; そして各分け前共通の家系および好戦的な理想従来の戦闘の多数の学校の合併を示す。 淳精流は本質的に現代武術(日本の戦士の芸術によって創設されるポスト1869年)のシステムであるが現代 社会が割り当てると淳精流家族の内のすべてを日本のKoryuの方法に同様に密接に教えるあらゆる淳精流の 教官の目標である。

[KignPeeseeamn]

Unfortunately, budo is not genetic. Doing up lineage charts like that one is even more useless than doing up the family history to see if you can get back to royalty somewhere... (and end up stalled at a nightclub in Soho in 1973).

Budo lineage charts are suitable for explaining the origin and development of a school, but to stick your own name down there at the end of it, as if you are the inheritor of the kingdom of England or the five schools of sword of Japan and the seven fists of Southern China is just a bit fanciful, unless you really are the inheritor of all that stuff.

Individuals would do much better to list their instructors if they are trying to indicate their potential skills (like I said, budo is not genetic and even the best breeders will tell you about horrible sports that need to be put down) and to simply name the school they're studying. With perhaps a lineage chart for their school, of the headmasters only.

As for naming ex-students, I hereby declare that all those students who no longer come to my classes are not my current students by reason of not being my current students. Lists of names available upon request. Ex-students can have their names removed from said list by showing up for class.

Kim.

[vNZsk39B]

Looking at the lineage, I guess we're all related in some way, so let's just be nice...

[Gulauur]

I am struggling to understand why they post a name on their 'outcasts' page and then name his dojo, thus giving him free advertising to anyone who thinks this samurai wannabe stuff is just a tad too much and want another option...

[Qauunet]

...although, why anyone would turn this down is beyond me. Sojutsu in yoroi rocks.

[dxpfmP0l]

I was trying to be nice, just in case. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. what a relief.

[effebrala]

Well, it's not proper jujutsu.

"Junsei Dachi kata!"

Any of the Kendo World forumites done any karatedo? (Scott, I know you have done some in the past.) These are name for name, karate postures.

Oh and..... wait for it....... (snigger) Tessenjutsu! But it's just a karate type kata with a tessen in your hand.

As someone who has trained in tessen from a koryu that is affiliated with the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai and Nihon Kobudo Kyokai while living in Japan, this is NOT tessenjutsu in any way, shape or form.

[kertUtire]

But it's just a karate type kata with a tessen in your hand. And a pretty crappy rendition of a karate type kata at that!

Does anyone else find this troubling? Do you mean the silly "outcasts" thing, or do you mean the whole "We desperately want to be a Japanese art without having to go through that whole irritating years of study with Japanese koryu or organizations" thing?

[defenderfors]

I think the last paragraph (pasted below) handles everything nicely if they really feel the need to do anything at all.

"Reece Sutton Phillips has now gone on to found his own martial arts association named "Valor Ju-Jitsu Association". We stress that this group is in no way associated with the Junsei Ryu or any of its affiliate associations. Techniques taught and demonstrated within this group should not in any way be considered to be techniques of the Junsei Ryu."

[Singukil]

And a pretty crappy rendition of a karate type kata at that!

Amen!


Do you mean the silly "outcasts" thing, or do you mean the whole "We desperately want to be a Japanese art without having to go through that whole irritating years of study with Japanese koryu or organizations" thing? I think that's spot on.

[ensuppono]

Do you mean the silly "outcasts" thing, or do you mean the whole "We desperately want to be a Japanese art without having to go through that whole irritating years of study with Japanese koryu or organizations" thing?

Originally the former, but I don't see the outcast thing as anything siller than the rest of the site, TBH.

I was going to ask about the heritage of their sword arts, but I guess they are just another group with a dead chief instructor who can't tell us where he learned his mighty skillz.

[Ruiceara]

This is brilliant, it's just like the film Ninja that I watched not so long ago. Clearly the disgraced Reece Sutton Phillips and his newly formed Valor Ju Jitsu Association are going to start bumping off members of the Junsei Ryu Bujutsu Renmei in a series of gruesome assassinations, then there will be an open war between the two schools in which the good guys' senesi gets killed, and finally a big showdown between Reece and his equivalent on the goody side. The goody will win but let Reece live, but then Reece will pull some dirty trick or other and the goody will kill him, cop off with his sensei's horny daughter and become head of the renmei. I can't wait for it all to unfold.

Wish my dojo had a Tsuihousha.

[ZZtop]

In case there was any doubt over my true opinion, airing your dirty laundry in public like this shows an utter lack of dignity and does not fit in to my idea of budo.

[diegogo]

Hmm, outcasts hey? This shows promise; although I think it's been done before: http://www.uclkendo.org/pmwiki/TopTrumps/TopTrumps (but with more style)

[Draftcasino.com]

My favourite page on the entire UCL site. Even more than the Batman lunacy.

[Tamawaipsemek]

I would say something but I fear that if they found out I'd be declared Tsuihousha and have to start a life of miserable wandering.