[CULTDIAMONDS]

Sure, but who actually decides to do it to random everyday objects??? Anyways, I never actually meant for people to take this the least bit serious. I mean, come on, a flashlight gun? I didn't think it called for any real deliberation

http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/03/09/shotgun-flashlight/

[MyLeva]

Sure, but who actually decides to do it to random everyday objects??? Anyways, I never actually meant for people to take this the least bit serious. I mean, come on, a flashlight gun? I didn't think it called for any real deliberation

Anyone with enough alcohol, and free time has probably gone and made some stupid thing like that...

[dgdhgjjgj]

Self defense=ninjitsu. End of thread

[blogwado]

I have had countless friends and family question me about why I take it, they say whats the point? It's very simple ... just tell them you hate golf!

Anyone with enough alcohol, and free time has probably gone and made some stupid thing like that... Yeah, but we have to quit when we start accumulating responsibilities .... sigh ....

Self defense=ninjitsu. End of thread. Afraid not. Real ninja never have to defend themselves as they always kill their opponent first, before they have a chance to attack!

[UTHZzJ6f]

Self defense - very hard to beat a set of fleet feet, and basically in most places the law requires retreat if possible.
Being aware of surroundings is probably the best defense, do not look like a potential victim.

The problems arise when others are involved, kind of difficult to beat the feet leaving wives/girlfriends or kids behind, so really the defense part is for others not ones self.
Historically one only needs to go to the KWF post on historical use of swords to see even then throwing rocks down on them created more casualties than swords, and in the Samurai vs Knight the knight got boiling oil as well as rocks, probably made their bogu very uncomfortable.

Also somewhat awkward carrying any weapon around in public, shotguns stand out, handguns take a lot of practice for proficiency, even a Jo staff will get looks unless it appears that you need it for mobility.
As for your house, replacing the exterior doors with something that will withstand a decent kick would be a good first step, a yappy pooch works well too. No surprises, and something substantial twixt them and thee.

Kendo provides more exercise in 30 minutes than golf all day (how long does 72 suburi take really?) , a much better use of time.

[Inenuedbabnor]

... in most places the law requires retreat if possible. I am SO glad I live in Texas!

Being aware of surroundings is probably the best defense, do not look like a potential victim. That was so good, it needed to be read again!

[Dxwlxqvg]

I began my martial arts "journey" looking for self defense over 14 years ago, and I am now a kendoist and not a self-defensist.

In my very heavily kendo-influenced opinion, I no longer believe that "self-defense" actually exists, and that there is only "offense" and "retreat". Which in my opinion causes a problem, simply that people who initially seek "self defense" training (such as my self at the time), have a real hard time accepting that in order actually adequately defend, you must learn how to mount a credible offense. Which means you have to learn how to dominate and control a situation through the threat of or application of real force.

At the time, my instructor told all of us that "martial arts is lousy self defense", and I either didn't understand him or refused to accept his view. Now after doing kendo for several years I think I understand him better. So for me, Kendo has been good to learn self-defense. Kendo has taught me that "self-defense" is a polite fiction and does not exist, in that there is nothing to defend and such a "self-defense" mentality already puts you at a disadvantage against an assailant.

Second, again heavily influenced by my kendo training, my opinion is that "in real life", a person who is very motivated to do you injury can move much faster than most people who do "self-defense" training train at, for obvious reasons for safety.

Lastly, Kendo has also begun teaching me about "seme", and particularly the "application of seme without a shinai". One consequence of learning about "seme" is that I am also becoming aware of when I'm in trouble. I can tell now, even in some non-kendo situations, when my situation is not ideal. I think that paying attention to what is going on around you constantly and learning when to avoid obvious traps is a good thing to know in terms of "self-preservation".

Do I say this to people who ask about kendo as self-defense? No, never.

[sasquatch999]

I began my martial arts "journey" looking for self defense over 14 years ago, and I am now a kendoist and not a self-defensist.

In my very heavily kendo-influenced opinion, I no longer believe that "self-defense" actually exists, and that there is only "offense" and "retreat". Which in my opinion causes a problem, simply that people who initially seek "self defense" training (such as my self at the time), have a real hard time accepting that in order actually adequately defend, you must learn how to mount a credible offense. Which means you have to learn how to dominate and control a situation through the threat of or application of real force.

At the time, my instructor told all of us that "martial arts is lousy self defense", and I either didn't understand him or refused to accept his view. Now after doing kendo for several years I think I understand him better. So for me, Kendo has been good to learn self-defense. Kendo has taught me that "self-defense" is a polite fiction and does not exist, in that there is nothing to defend and such a "self-defense" mentality already puts you at a disadvantage against an assailant.

Second, again heavily influenced by my kendo training, my opinion is that "in real life", a person who is very motivated to do you injury can move much faster than most people who do "self-defense" training train at, for obvious reasons for safety.

Lastly, Kendo has also begun teaching me about "seme", and particularly the "application of seme without a shinai". One consequence of learning about "seme" is that I am also becoming aware of when I'm in trouble. I can tell now, even in some non-kendo situations, when my situation is not ideal. I think that paying attention to what is going on around you constantly and learning when to avoid obvious traps is a good thing to know in terms of "self-preservation".

Do I say this to people who ask about kendo as self-defense? No, never.

Good points. Your comments reflect what others are missing out by focusing on waza whether they are learning self-defense waza in empty hand arts or practicing kendo. Cultivating that mindset through understanding of seme and awareness is what you need for self-defense and not a collection of 500 different possible scenarios.

Likewise if you have that understanding, you can apply it to other martial arts even if you don't have the same level of skill in waza.

[kanchouska]

Its funny you should mention the "toolbox" approach to martial arts, as I was just thinking of that this morning.

I've been in martial arts that advocate such an approach, and I've also watched demos of groups more recently that advertise such things. I never say this directly to them, but I no longer believe this is a very good way of approaching martial arts training, particularly in a "self-preservation" senario.

The way that I was taught in these martial arts systems was to have the attitude of "well if technique A doesn't work, move to technique B, then to technique C, then to technique D", and then do some sort of crippling technique while their down and run away. Philosophical consequences aside, it seemed reasonable enough at the time, and I went away thing "wow I know a lot", and the idea that I would overwhelm them with my "knowledge of waza".

After doing kendo for longer now, I am pretty sure I don't believe its a good idea, based on the premise that if your opponent (and not your "partner") is actively resisting and is also attacking, you have to consider two additional factors.

Simply from a stastistical point of view, each technique executed has some probability of success or failure against an actively resisting and attacking opponent. If you also take into consideration that every technique you do also provides openings and vunerabilities for attack by your opponent, one can easily arrive at a point in a chain of waza where the probability of successful execution of your waza is very small and the vulnerability towards your opponent is very very high.

I think its one of the reasons why in kendo, oji-waza are quite difficult to execute, and most oji-waza or even shikake-waza that are combinations are normally only in the range of 2-3 waza. In my experience, the more combinations and the more complicated the waza I do, it is less likely that I will be sucessful and more likely that my opponent will be.

[MasTaBlau]

Kendo is only good for self defense once you make 8th-dan and you learn how to deflect bullets with your bokken.

[b91ZmxzX]

I've been in martial arts that advocate such an approach, and I've also watched demos of groups more recently that advertise such things. I never say this directly to them, but I no longer believe this is a very good way of approaching martial arts training, particularly in a "self-preservation" senario. I disagree. I think that this is just as good as any other way to approach martial arts. The thing that has to be considered is that the main benefits of any martial arts training is NOT what most people think they are learning. The main benefit of martial arts, in my experience, is the increase in confidence and awareness of what's going on around you. This is a benefit that can be accrued from practicing any martial art. Other side benefits are better physical fitness and a general increase in one's sense of responsibility. Whether someone could actually defend themselves in a street combat environment is totally irrelevant to the vast majority of martial arts practitioners as they'll never find themselves in that situation. Therefore, it is my opinion, based upon my experiences only, that any martial art, when pursued diligently, is just as good as any other as far as self-defense is concerned.

[BorBitExatini]

Great insights, enkorat.

There is only one thing that I would add, which is that I think there is an aspect to practical "self-defense" that is not offense or retreat but people overlook because it has nothing to do with fighting. In addition to being aware, you have to be able to defuse the situation. The thing is that sometimes violence comes about because of ego, and in those situations you don't want to provoke any further escalation. Being aggressive and trying to dominate is very often going to cause an escalation. But backing down can sometimes also get you into trouble. It's even more complex if there is more than one person involved.

I think what kendo has helped me understand through learning about seme is that the fight is not between weapons and techniques, it is between the people. Victory or defeat is determined by the interaction between you and your opponent. So being able to read and manage the situation with the other person is the most important thing.

[sPncEjF7]

Do you think that some people underestimate Kendo as a self defense martial art because of the fact that it requires more than just your hands? I have had countless friends and family question me about why I take it, they say whats the point? You would have to carry a stick around with you at all times, do you agree or disagree.

I agree with you friends and family, I see nothing "defensive" in kendo. I think it's more of an offensive martial art. You are not taught to block or dodge, and if you are it's only to set up for your strike. In my dojo, blocking is frowned upon. Our mindset is to attack not to defend. So IMO kendo is not a defensive martial art.

You can block 100 times and you will never hit your opponent, but if you strike 100 times, you are surely to land hit.

[SannyGlow]

pgsmith, I would unfortunately have to strongly disagree with you in the specifics of your view.

First, I do not believe that a 1001 toolbox approach is at all beneficial. In addition to the purely tactical issues, there is the issue of pedagogy. While 1001 waza sounds impressive and seems to give the impression of "depth" and "sophistication" to the art, a very practical consequence of the approach is that often times you will practice one specific technique once in three years. I mean no exaggeration, I specifically remember saying once that I had last practiced a particular technique three years ago. The direct consequence of that was that I spent a relatively large amount of my college career training (11 hrs/week), and never really getting good at anything.

A direct consequence of "not getting good at anything" was the reverse of building confidence, it actually damaged my confidence, particularly since the response of my sempai and instructors was the very Asian "you're not getting good because you aren't good enough" and that it was a personal failure of dedication on my part. It didn't help that I was a very timid person at that point in my life, and naturally lacked confidence. Naturally because I had low self-confidence and was generally fearful of "the world" I gravitated towards "self-defense", and naturally I expected after spending 11 hrs/wk for 5 years to at least get some handle on this self-defense malarky.

After all, what I was doing was heavily advertised as such, and also advertised as building confidence, discipline, and everything else kendo is associated with. But in reality it was the reverse. It taught me very little about self-defense, perpetuated my timidness in my personality, and made me highly cynical of the type of "discipline" that was taught, which was the "I'm senior to you, you will obey me without question" kind of thing.

After seeing kendo for the first time, I had a crisis where I realized that everything that I had been taught in my previous martial art was a misrepresentation of the truth. I had not been taught self-defense, I was less confident of myself after willingly putting up with a bad environment, I had become completely cynical about the benefits of martial arts, and I had spent so much time training that it had hurt my academics and delayed my chances in my post undergraduate career.

While I understand and generally support your view as an adult and as a kendoist doing kendo, my belief is that there are certainly groups and organizations which advertise these benefits and in reality do not deliver on any of it, and thus it is a mistake to apply all of these qualities across the board to all martial art groups.

[kristloken]

While I understand and generally support your view as an adult and as a kendoist doing kendo, my belief is that there are certainly groups and organizations which advertise these benefits and in reality do not deliver on any of it, and thus it is a mistake to apply all of these qualities across the board to all martial art groups. Very well said. I withdraw my earlier statement, and will amend it in the future to specify decent martial arts training. What you went through sounds like quite a terrible ordeal really, and points out how an average person can be taken in by a lousy instructor/school. I'm really sorry to hear of your past trials, but I am very glad that you seem to have learned from them and have gone on in a positive direction.

Cheers!

[CarmenSanches]

Sorry enkorat, I can't give you +rep twice in one thread! But thanks for your candour. Your story is a very important one for all serious kendoka and instructors to think about. b

[Muhabsssa]

If you carry an air about you that shows you know how to handle yourself, or you can cultivate the ability to be aware of your surroundings you are less likely to be a target than someone who is staring at the ground.

hi78 get's it!

[XarokLasa]

While 1001 waza sounds impressive and seems to give the impression of "depth" and "sophistication" to the art, a very practical consequence of the approach is that often times you will practice one specific technique once in three years.

It needn't even be 1001 to be confusing. In judo we have 65 throws just in the main curriculum, and another 40 or so in other sets, in addition to a pile of ground-fighting waza. I don't know anyone locally who can use the whole set effectively. Judo Canada insists on yellow belts knowing 20-some of these throws, which is just ridiculous. Most people settle on 2 or 3 tokui waza in reality.

Reduce the set further with kendo - if I added up all the combinations, maybe I'd come up with 50 waza. How many guys do you know who are conversant in all of them? I've been to seminars where the sensei has decided to go through lists of waza just for fun, and even our national team guys can't do them all in drills, never mind in reality.

Introducing people to the toolbox is cool - but pick a few tools that suit you well and get really good at those. Asking people to use them all equally is silly.

[dupratac]

but pick a few tools that suit you well and get really good at those.

I think, even one tool is too much, if you (sometimes literally) shit your pants in an "self defense" situation.
Defusing doesn't work all the time, either.
To be able to defend yourself with above average odds, I think it takes daily practice and constant exposure to dangerous situations (police, security, army - each in their own field - maybe professional fighting - MMA or Boxing, less the 'olympic' stuff that sticks too very restrictive rules).
Everything else - including Martial Arts and even self defense courses - is probably just some form of nice ballet - so I wouldn't say Kendo is underrated, I'd rather say many other things are overrated.

[Trotoleterm]

Sorry folks, I didn't mean to express my point of view so strongly, I guess it touched a nerve.

I don't know if it was a horrible situation. Even though it was not ideal, I made some good friends during that time, learned how to control my body a little better, and learned that the reality of martial arts (and life) is very different from the ideal. It also made me much more aware of the kinds of people who pursue training, and what to look for in a good training environment. It also made me deeply appreciate my kendo senseis very much.

Neil, I completely understand that in the everyday practical reality of martial arts such as judo or kendo, we're talking about a good solid set of wazas. While in graduate school demoing kendo, on a few occasions I watched other martial arts groups do their demo as well, and the narrator of another demo literally said "we will teach you 1001 techniques to deal with any situation". Its possible that it was simply a zealous beginner overselling, but that phrase just stuck with me as something that would have completely won me over when I was a completely new beginner in any martial arts training, but now as a kendoist just made me highly skeptical.