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Old 12-21-2005, 11:44 AM   #1
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Default Singapore Scum
This was pulled from ProfessionalMuscle.com:


12-02-2005, 11:31 PM
Big A vbmenu_register("postmenu_146135", true);
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O/T Singapore Scum!
I have never seen Australia united as it was today.

To any of you that do not know, today an Australian national was hanged in Singapore.

Australian born Van Nguyen, was a typical, normal young man.
His brother, got involved with the wrong crowd, and he surmounted some debts. He was threatened with harm unless he paid the money back or would do one act as a drug mule. He didn't, but his twin brother Van, wanting to save his brother from harm, decided to smuggle a package of drugs from Cambodia to Australia, as such paying off the brother's debt.

While he was in transit through Singapore airport, travelling between Cambodia and Australia, Van's metal rimmed sun glasses triggerred a metal detector. This subjected him to a search. The drugs were found, he was arrested and eventually sentenced to death.

Regardless of the mitigating circumstances, including that the drugs were not from Singapore or destined for Singapore, he was still sentenced to die!

Every politicain, religious leader, business leader and countless legal minds travelled to Singapore and appealed in every possible way to obtain clemency for Van. The scumbag Singaporean's would not do it.

As such, the poor young soul was hung this morning at 6am local time.

His mother was only allowed to hold his hand before he was killed.
She was not even allowed to give her son a hug!
What kind of animals are these people?

Fuckin' scumbags, lowest lives on this Earth these people!
And if you are Singaporean and offended by what I say, fuck yourself! You voted your fucked up goverment in place who instilled these laws! Bunch of fuckin' dogs!

Actually, I am sorry. Didn't mean to offend dogs. You are much, much lower than that!

I do regularly 7 figure business each year with Singapore.
As of this moment, that has stopped for ever!
Also, with all other business people I know, we are all boycotting Singapore. Fair enough, all of us combined, we only represent about 8 figures annually, but it is a start.
We will not be buying any more Singapore exports, we will never visit that place or even stop in transit through there and we will be boycotting all Singapore products including their Airline.
And we are growing the list of businesses that will immediately stop doing business with anyone in Singapore.

Here Singapore, this is your face of shame:

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#2
12-03-2005, 12:55 AM
PHIL HERNON vbmenu_register("postmenu_146145", true);
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YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
I have never seen Australia united as it was today.

To any of you that do not know, today an Australian national was hanged in Singapore.

Australian born Van Nguyen, was a typical, normal young man.
His brother, got involved with the wrong crowd, and he surmounted some debts. He was threatened with harm unless he paid the money back or would do one act as a drug mule. He didn't, but his twin brother Van, wanting to save his brother from harm, decided to smuggle a package of drugs from Cambodia to Australia, as such paying off the brother's debt.

While he was in transit through Singapore airport, travelling between Cambodia and Australia, Van's metal rimmed sun glasses triggerred a metal detector. This subjected him to a search. The drugs were found, he was arrested and eventually sentenced to death.

Regardless of the mitigating circumstances, including that the drugs were not from Singapore or destined for Singapore, he was still sentenced to die!

Every politicain, religious leader, business leader and countless legal minds travelled to Singapore and appealed in every possible way to obtain clemency for Van. The scumbag Singaporean's would not do it.

As such, the poor young soul was hung this morning at 6am local time.

His mother was only allowed to hold his hand before he was killed.
She was not even allowed to give her son a hug!
What kind of animals are these people?

Fuckin' scumbags, lowest lives on this Earth these people!
And if you are Singaporean and offended by what I say, fuck yourself! You voted your fucked up goverment in place who instilled these laws! Bunch of fuckin' dogs!

Actually, I am sorry. Didn't mean to offend dogs. You are much, much lower than that!

I do regularly 7 figure business each year with Singapore.
As of this moment, that has stopped for ever!
Also, with all other business people I know, we are all boycotting Singapore. Fair enough, all of us combined, we only represent about 8 figures annually, but it is a start.
We will not be buying any more Singapore exports, we will never visit that place or even stop in transit through there and we will be boycotting all Singapore products including their Airline.
And we are growing the list of businesses that will immediately stop doing business with anyone in Singapore.

Here Singapore, this is your face of shame:


I WAS FOLLOWING THIS STORY ALL DAY YESTERDAY. TRULY SAD AND DISGUSTING!
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#3
12-03-2005, 01:03 AM
HITHARD vbmenu_register("postmenu_146148", true);
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HMMM....
I TRIED TO TYPE SOMETHING TO REPLY TO THIS STORY......I AM LOST FOR WORDS.........DAMN!!!



#4
12-03-2005, 03:20 AM
Just_Joe vbmenu_register("postmenu_146159", true);
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Well
I "had" a business relationship there as well consider them boycotted.
Thanks for the info.



#5
12-03-2005, 03:26 AM
Conan21 vbmenu_register("postmenu_146162", true);
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fuck
was only doing this in fear of what would happen to his brother and they still killed him. absolutely horrible.





#6
12-03-2005, 03:30 AM
Snarf vbmenu_register("postmenu_146164", true);
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The senseless loss of life is tragic. Obviously this man made a tragic mistake and paid the ultimate penalty for that mistake.

However, maybe he should have checked out the punishment for the crime he was committing before he did it. There seems to be no question that he was guilty, and Singapore is simply enforcing its own laws.

I am also guessing that there might have been some better alternatives to solving his problems than smuggling drugs. I wonder if he had taken an ad out in an Australian newspaper saying "Please give me $50,000 to pay off my brother's debts so I don't have to smuggle drugs and be sentenced to die in Singapore" if anyone would donate money? I doubt anyone who is now outraged at his death would have given a dime.

While truly sad, this punishment sends a strong message internationally to would be drug smugglers. If you had to pick a country to smuggle drugs through, I bet Singapre is pretty far down your list now and that is probably exactly the affect they wanted.

A few years ago some spoiled, American brat was going to school in Singapore and got caught vandalising some property (I think it was graffiti). The punishment was a public caning. People were outraged here saying it was barbaric, too severe a punishment, etc. The media was all over it and we had politicians trying to intervene. The end result was the little shit got his caning - probably the best thing that ever happened to him. I am not trying to compare the severity of the two events, but when you are in a foreign country you play by their rules. If you don't like their rules, don't visit that country.
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#7
12-03-2005, 03:46 AM
dr. livingstone vbmenu_register("postmenu_146168", true);
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It is obvious that this kid didn't disserve to die. But, how cruel as this may sound, you can not make exceptions for individual cases. A policy stops being a policy when you makes exceptions.The punishment is based on the crime that is committed and the reason why it is done has only limited effect on the sentence.

I can understand your anger but I don't understand why it is focused towards Singapore. Most juridical systems work this way, although the penalties may be lighter in some countries.

Not long from now Tookie Williams will be killed by the American state. Although Tookie killed people and Van Nguyen didn't, Tookie condemned violence after his sentence and did a lot of good for the community. However he will be executed because the US state doesn't make execeptions. So is the jurisdiction of the USA that much different than that of Singapore ?
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#8
12-03-2005, 03:59 AM
Just_Joe vbmenu_register("postmenu_146171", true);
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Doc
I am speechless at your response! Tookie Williams took two peoples lives by choice no one made him pull the trigger. If you know the story about those people you would know how much of a tragedy it truly was. Quite frankly that post (sorry if I offend anyone ) takes away from the point Mr. A is trying to make with this thread and the two do not even remotely equate as being the same type of justice.

Glad to be here.
Last edited by Just_Joe : 12-03-2005 at 04:27 AM.



#9
12-03-2005, 04:07 AM
dr. livingstone vbmenu_register("postmenu_146172", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Joe
I am speechless at your response! Tookie Williams took two peoples lives by choice no one made him pull the trigger. If you know the story about those people you would know how much of a tragedy it truly was. Quite frankly that post (sorry if I offend anyone ) takes away from the point Mr. A is trying to make with this thread and the two do not even remotely equate as being the same type of justice.

Gald to be here.


Nobody made Van Nguyen smuggle heroin. It was his own choice, just like it was Tookies own choice to kill these people. So for the law they both committed a crime for which they disserve the death penalty. So any anger should be towards those laws, not focused towards the fact that no exception is made for these men.
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#10
12-03-2005, 05:05 AM
jawbreakerkid vbmenu_register("postmenu_146177", true);
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I agree with Dr. Livingstone 100%. The law is the law. The punishment does not fit the crime, however, it is the law. Maybe Singapore is onto something, this country is riddled with drug problems, people go to prison, then they get back out and resume their drug activities. Same with rapists, and numerous other criminals. If we were harsher in our laws crime would be greatly reduced. Instead we give people second, third, fourth chances to ruin their lives and the lives of others.
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#11
12-03-2005, 05:07 AM
BIGSHERM vbmenu_register("postmenu_146178", true);
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That is ABSURD!!! They are two totally different scenarios...............I am absolutly appauled with singapores govt...........FUCK them!
Last edited by BIGSHERM : 12-03-2005 at 11:03 AM.



#12
12-03-2005, 05:36 AM
jawbreakerkid vbmenu_register("postmenu_146181", true);
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so if someone from Iraq came here and raped your wife, said they had no choice but to rape your wife because she looked sexually deprived and on the verge of suicide due to her sexual deprivation, be sent back to his country which has relaxed rape laws (if any at all)?

Now that is an absurd example, however relevant, becuase we must obide by the laws of the country we are in. Steroid laws are absurd, but we make the decision whether to obide by them or not.
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#13
12-03-2005, 07:06 AM
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that's is just plain HORRIBLE!

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#14
12-03-2005, 07:27 AM
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The blame also lies with the foreign nationals own Country

As far as I am concerned if some shit hole Country decideds to execute on of your citizens then your Country needs to intervene

Now I know they don't always intervene but they should

Tell Jerk of Country that you consider executing one of your Citizens an Act of War

Then if they execute him drop a fucking bomb on there ass

Seriously your Goverment State department should have been involved

Yes They suck but why didn't his own Country come to his defense?



#15
12-03-2005, 09:42 AM
Big Ian vbmenu_register("postmenu_146228", true);
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That's some bad shit



#16
12-03-2005, 09:49 AM
Vander_V vbmenu_register("postmenu_146231", true);
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GAD DANM SHAME
This really pisses me off beyond rage its almost like im irrate and disgusted at the same time , these sick ass demonic goverments and leaders fuck singapore and the middle east .
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#17
12-03-2005, 09:51 AM
dr. livingstone vbmenu_register("postmenu_146232", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespa103
The blame also lies with the foreign nationals own Country

As far as I am concerned if some shit hole Country decideds to execute on of your citizens then your Country needs to intervene

Now I know they don't always intervene but they should

Tell Jerk of Country that you consider executing one of your Citizens an Act of War

Then if they execute him drop a fucking bomb on there ass

Seriously your Goverment State department should have been involved

Yes They suck but why didn't his own Country come to his defense?


So you are saying every time the USA executes a foreigner they should be bombed ? Or does it only work the other way around ?
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#18
12-03-2005, 10:02 AM
Extreme vbmenu_register("postmenu_146235", true);
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I'm not so sure...
I have a very good friend who resides in Singapore, my Dad and Sister have both paid him a visit over the past 2 years, returning impressed with how clean and virtually crime free the city was. Now if you enter another country you must abide by their rules. If not then obviously there is a penalty to be paid. Surely with all the press over the years about the harsh penalties paid by drug smugglers you would have a solid idea on what risks you were taking! Then you have to assess whether the gamble was worth it... if not then don't do it. If you do then you know what to expect.

I sit on the fence whether death was right or wrong, but what I do know is if he had gotten away with it many more lives would have been effected... in a negative dire sense. After Shapel Corby's ordeal - which we are all more than familar with - you would have to be crazy to put your life on the line to smuggle anything in or out of these countries. Yet people have this false sense of security, believing they will be the ones to get away with it!

Come now, that is like sticking your head in the sand. Playing with a loaded gun will more than likely end up killing you... as will playing cat and mouse with a system that has a NO DRUGS rule firmly in place. No matter what the reasons there will always be a high risk factor attached, so when caught you can hardly blame the authorities for enforcing their laws. That isn't to say I don't believe he should have been saved and re-taught the dangers of drugs and he might have led a successfully, rewarding life. All I am saying is being harsh on places where crime is low and respect is high may not be the best outlook.



#19
12-03-2005, 10:26 AM
tattoojr vbmenu_register("postmenu_146239", true);
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I'm speechless at the tie ins that this thread has . Iraq, a Gang Killer , what??? I think Big A has the right as a business owner to boycott, and if you mourn what has happened your human, I also beleive that if you get caught doing something illegal you do your own time, no bitchin. All this other stuff is just retoric(sp) and has no place here. J.R.



#20
12-03-2005, 11:07 AM
massmonster32 vbmenu_register("postmenu_146240", true);
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I agree things like this happen right here in good ole mexico you go to jail you dont eat unless someone brings you food. Americans often think we are better than everyone else and try to enforce our values on other countries for some reason. I dont agree we need to clean our own back yard first before looking down on others.

I do not think he should have been put to death but they have diffferent penalties than us. Hopefully at least the debt is at least now foragaven. Just like US in Saudi Arabia/Iraq who is to say that their religion and laws,culture are bad. We have 3 times the crime. Sad indeed I feel for the guys family everyone should be weary of going to singapore though as they show no mercy. MM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf
The senseless loss of life is tragic. Obviously this man made a tragic mistake and paid the ultimate penalty for that mistake.

However, maybe he should have checked out the punishment for the crime he was committing before he did it. There seems to be no question that he was guilty, and Singapore is simply enforcing its own laws.

I am also guessing that there might have been some better alternatives to solving his problems than smuggling drugs. I wonder if he had taken an ad out in an Australian newspaper saying "Please give me $50,000 to pay off my brother's debts so I don't have to smuggle drugs and be sentenced to die in Singapore" if anyone would donate money? I doubt anyone who is now outraged at his death would have given a dime.

While truly sad, this punishment sends a strong message internationally to would be drug smugglers. If you had to pick a country to smuggle drugs through, I bet Singapre is pretty far down your list now and that is probably exactly the affect they wanted.

A few years ago some spoiled, American brat was going to school in Singapore and got caught vandalising some property (I think it was graffiti). The punishment was a public caning. People were outraged here saying it was barbaric, too severe a punishment, etc. The media was all over it and we had politicians trying to intervene. The end result was the little shit got his caning - probably the best thing that ever happened to him. I am not trying to compare the severity of the two events, but when you are in a foreign country you play by their rules. If you don't like their rules, don't visit that country.







12-03-2005, 11:12 AM
Big A vbmenu_register("postmenu_146241", true);
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My views:

I am against death penalty anywhere because it is just a judicial system which can be abused, as it is anywhere in the world, and some innocent people will die.

That being said, I am 100% in the belief of eye for an eye. Which means, if soemone kills someone else and it is 100% proven for real (not made up), then that person deserves to die. Even better, the victims family should pull the switch/trigger/etc.

However, we are talking about drugs. Drugs which in some countries are leagl. So this person died because he broke some laws on paper. That is morrally incorrect, because drug laws are not morally correct laws.
I am all for maximum penalty even death, for rapes, murders, animal cruelty, etc.
But for beaurocratic laws it is a different scenario. Phil went to jail for steroids. In other countries they are legal. Van died because of drugs. In other countries he wouldn't have. What I am saying, is that he died because a piece of paper said so, not because he deserved to.

OK, so Singapore will kill you if you smuggle drugs. Surely mitigating factors (not his brother's predicament as that is not a legal mitigating factor) such as he was in transit through Singapore and the drugs did not originiate or were destined for Singapore, so Singapore would not have been affected in any shape or form by these drugs, should have been very strong mitigating factors that should have made sure that he didn't end up with the death penalty, but life at the worst.

If they kill in Singapore for drugs, fair enough, I am not saying that they should make exceptions just because he was a foreign national, but the mitigating factors of this case did not deserve for him to die.

Also, he was caught before Chappelle Corby for who mentioned her.

And no, don't start saying that drugs are bad for society so he deserved what he got! Alcohol and cigarettes kill many more people each year and are a much greater cost to society, yet they are accepted because they are legal and are not demonised by the goverment departments in order to increase their yearly expenditures.
I am not pro rec drugs, as I despise them because I believe that only weak minded people use them, as only weak minded people smoke and drink as well. But certainly I beleive that punishment for rec drugs should not be any higher than that for alcohol and cigarettes.
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#22
12-03-2005, 12:00 PM
STEVO 47 vbmenu_register("postmenu_146252", true);
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I myself don't really know where to go with this one. I feel too that
if someone was to be exacuted then it should be because he or she
had taken someone elses life. But sometimes you have to look at this
in the long run. In the USA, every single one of our cities in each state
of the union has been decimated with murder, rape, armed robberies
all in the name of crack and herion and some of these murders are of
innocent people. So you really have to turn the page and read the other
side on this one.



#23
12-03-2005, 01:26 PM
BALDNAZI vbmenu_register("postmenu_146268", true);
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Play by the rules
I remember the kid that was caned for spraying graffiti in Singapore,I wish they had a law like that in the US.If you spit on the street in Singapore,throw garbage on the ground,you will pay for it in some harsh way.And if you smuggle drugs you will be killed.I have no problem with their laws.Look at their major cities,clean,crime free,none of this bullshit we in the US have to deal with everyday.

There are countries in this world where if you steal,you will have your hand cut off.I have no problem with that.Its a fact that stealing,is not done so much in these countries.Who the fuck am I to impose my laws on another sovereign nation?

If you don't like their laws,don't go there,don't live there.

We think we are so great here in America,well I have news for you,It fucking sucks.The crime,3rd world immigration,drugs,the list goes on and on.It will never change because there is no accountability.You kill someone,ohhh its not my fault,its because my parents beat me as a kid,ok you get 15 years.What the fuck?People need to have a sense of responsibility in their actions.In America they do not.Its someone elses fault,someone elses problem.

I tell you what I do...public executions.This Tookie monkey motherfucker,I cut his balls off on national TV.Let people see what happens when you murder 4 people.I guarantee crime would go down exponentialy.The reason the death penalty is not a deterent in this country is because you can appeal 600 times and it takes years before anything happens if at all.

People need to see the harsh reality,and it needs to be done publicly.For example,they are debating now in NY whether to show the full graphic images of September 11th in a memorial display they are planning.Imagine that,debating if they should show WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.They claim that it will make people angry at Muslims,and foster racist views.Are you fucking kidding me?American people need to see what happened on that day,over and over again.They need to feel rage inside,they need to teach it to there children.They need to HATE the people and religion that caused this.

My point is,we live in a sensitized society where lions and lambs live together in a peaceful forest.Reality is far different my friends.I do not feel bad for this kid,I do feel bad for his mother.He knew the penalties involved in that country and took a chance.Wrong place wrong time........
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#24
12-03-2005, 01:41 PM
BIGKIWI vbmenu_register("postmenu_146276", true);
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I don't think people desreve to be put to death for drugs it is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Just as Big A says alcohol, cigarettes kill and harm 100,000 people each year but the people that import sell them are looked upon with respect !! The government cannot tax the drugs so the make it illeagal
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#25
12-03-2005, 01:44 PM
callgolf vbmenu_register("postmenu_146278", true);
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Gear is Legal In Singapore
I have been to Singapore many times, I like the place, not a whole lot to do there, but a nice place nonetheless. Last time I was there I went into a pharmacy to check it out, you could buy gear over the counter, they had test, deca, anavar and NordiTropin GH. So, they have a good thing going in my mind, prosecute the drugs that are the real problems and leave the gear alone. I think this sends a message to the drug smugglers that they shouldn't bring their drugs through that country, or try to distribute them there. I don't agree with the death penalty, but I feel that they could have locked him away for many years, or put him in a work camp for years and make him work off his crime. This is something we don't do enough of here in the US, if I were in charge the criminals would not be sitting around watching cable and sodomizing each other. I would have those bastards up in Alaska building a pipeline to bring us some of that black gold. I was going to say, Singapore isn't the only country that executes drug criminals. They do this in China, Iran, Turkey.



#26
12-03-2005, 05:54 PM
terryd5150 vbmenu_register("postmenu_146299", true);
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Shouldn't this thread be on DiscussWorldIssues.com and not on PM?
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#27
12-03-2005, 08:50 PM
dr. livingstone vbmenu_register("postmenu_146312", true);
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I do agree with Big A and Bigkiwi that drugs should be legalised. In a mature democacracy the choice if people want to use drugs should be made by the people themselfes not by the authority. If they kill or rob because of their drugs use, they should be punished for these actions, just like non drugs users.
As much as I condemn the execution of this kid I believe we have to accept the rules this democracy lives by.
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#28
12-04-2005, 09:58 AM
huge-inc vbmenu_register("postmenu_146380", true);
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Fuck NO
If drugs where legal the gov't would get all the money..No he shouldn't have been killed....but he should have known the laws...As an american I understand this..some countries don't fuck around period....I would not step out of line in Singapore or Turkey....I don't think F Lee Bailey could get you out of that...maybe only Bill Clinton could



#29
12-04-2005, 10:54 AM
Ivan vbmenu_register("postmenu_146391", true);
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You know what?!
It is fucking WRONG PERIOD!!!!!!!! TO kill, to MURDER, to take another's life over smuggling drugs. This is just another sad example of humanity embarassing itself again and demonstrating primitive ways of thinking/living...

Here is Van's defense statement:

VAN NGUYEN

MEDIA STATEMENT

The news that the Singapore Government intends to hang our client, Van Nguyen, is devastating for him, his family and friends and for anyone who values humane treatment of their fellow human beings.

Death by hanging is hideous. Further, it is grossly out of proportion to the crime committed. The mandatory nature of the execution represents a gross unfairness to our client and all others who have never been given the chance to say to a judge why such a final penalty should not be applied to them. Our client has always admitted his guilt and given constructive help to authorities including the Australian Federal Police. The decision appears to pay no heed to the provisions of the Singapore Constitution that make specific reference and provide for clemency to those who assist the authorities with information which can be used to prosecute others. The only people who will take comfort from this result will be those who exploited Van for their own purposes to profit from drug trafficking and who now know that with the death of our client their criminal conspiracy will go unpunished.

We call on the Singapore Government to reverse this decision. We make this call in the name of fairness and justice. The rule of law in Singapore and the effectiveness of the Constitution will be diminished by the execution of Van Nguyen.



LEX LASRY QC JULIAN McMAHON JOSEPH THESEIRA
Counsel for Van Nguyen
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#30
12-05-2005, 01:01 PM
adrenaline vbmenu_register("postmenu_146553", true);
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There are stupid laws all over the world. I think its insane to be put in jail for smoking weed or using steroids. It's no different than drinking alcohol or getting a nose or boob job... but that just my opinion. I don't agree with hanging that guy no matter what his reason was.. it sounds like it was his first offence and in that case should get a 2nd chance. If he was a career criminal then i wouldnt care less, he would deserve it then. I think the laws should be harsh but only to those who obviously deserve it, and this poor kid doesnt qualify based on the information i read. Not only that but it looks bad on the people of Singapore even though they had no say in it, this was a government decision and it's only going to hurt them on the international stage.

Since this came up i did some research on this and came across this info on the BBC:

He was convicted three years ago of carrying nearly 400g (14 ounces) of heroin at Singapore airport while travelling from Cambodia to Australia. The amount of heroin involved would have been enough for 26,000 individual doses.

Singapore has some of the strictest drug trafficking laws in the world, and anyone found with 15g of heroin faces a mandatory death penalty.

According to Amnesty International, about 420 people have been hanged in Singapore since 1991, mostly for drugs offences.
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Last edited by adrenaline : 12-05-2005 at 01:07 PM.



#31
12-05-2005, 01:21 PM
Magnum vbmenu_register("postmenu_146558", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
My views:

I am against death penalty anywhere because it is just a judicial system which can be abused, as it is anywhere in the world, and some innocent people will die.

That being said, I am 100% in the belief of eye for an eye. Which means, if soemone kills someone else and it is 100% proven for real (not made up), then that person deserves to die. Even better, the victims family should pull the switch/trigger/etc.

However, we are talking about drugs. Drugs which in some countries are leagl. So this person died because he broke some laws on paper. That is morrally incorrect, because drug laws are not morally correct laws.
I am all for maximum penalty even death, for rapes, murders, animal cruelty, etc.
But for beaurocratic laws it is a different scenario. Phil went to jail for steroids. In other countries they are legal. Van died because of drugs. In other countries he wouldn't have. What I am saying, is that he died because a piece of paper said so, not because he deserved to.

OK, so Singapore will kill you if you smuggle drugs. Surely mitigating factors (not his brother's predicament as that is not a legal mitigating factor) such as he was in transit through Singapore and the drugs did not originiate or were destined for Singapore, so Singapore would not have been affected in any shape or form by these drugs, should have been very strong mitigating factors that should have made sure that he didn't end up with the death penalty, but life at the worst.

If they kill in Singapore for drugs, fair enough, I am not saying that they should make exceptions just because he was a foreign national, but the mitigating factors of this case did not deserve for him to die.

Also, he was caught before Chappelle Corby for who mentioned her.

And no, don't start saying that drugs are bad for society so he deserved what he got! Alcohol and cigarettes kill many more people each year and are a much greater cost to society, yet they are accepted because they are legal and are not demonised by the goverment departments in order to increase their yearly expenditures.
I am not pro rec drugs, as I despise them because I believe that only weak minded people use them, as only weak minded people smoke and drink as well. But certainly I beleive that punishment for rec drugs should not be any higher than that for alcohol and cigarettes.



I agree 100%!!!!! This world is a fucked up place and Singapore ranks at the top. BTW, I have always held this opinion of Singapore, this just confirms my beliefs.



#32
12-05-2005, 10:07 PM
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...
I'm with Big A on this one. Just as some are pro capital punishment, others are well within their rights to question the practice, particularly because of the finality of the justice when some of us are only too aware of how wrong the justice system and the proving of guilt can be.

the war on drugs is a nonsense and was a political tool trumped up by Reagan. Where there is deman, there will be supply. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol and it won't work with narcotics. But this doesn't gain anyone any political mileage and just exposes how complicated the issue is. Far better to fall back to scary, archaic approaches. Clearly, since capital punishment is supposed to work as a deterent, death row jails should be empty by now. They're not. People don't commit a crime believing they will get caught.

And hanging... barbaric. IronMike
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#33
12-05-2005, 11:43 PM
lionel vbmenu_register("postmenu_146589", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BALDNAZI
I remember the kid that was caned for spraying graffiti in Singapore,I wish they had a law like that in the US.If you spit on the street in Singapore,throw garbage on the ground,you will pay for it in some harsh way.And if you smuggle drugs you will be killed.I have no problem with their laws.Look at their major cities,clean,crime free,none of this bullshit we in the US have to deal with everyday.

There are countries in this world where if you steal,you will have your hand cut off.I have no problem with that.Its a fact that stealing,is not done so much in these countries.Who the fuck am I to impose my laws on another sovereign nation?

If you don't like their laws,don't go there,don't live there.

We think we are so great here in America,well I have news for you,It fucking sucks.The crime,3rd world immigration,drugs,the list goes on and on.It will never change because there is no accountability.You kill someone,ohhh its not my fault,its because my parents beat me as a kid,ok you get 15 years.What the fuck?People need to have a sense of responsibility in their actions.In America they do not.Its someone elses fault,someone elses problem.

I tell you what I do...public executions.This Tookie monkey motherfucker,I cut his balls off on national TV.Let people see what happens when you murder 4 people.I guarantee crime would go down exponentialy.The reason the death penalty is not a deterent in this country is because you can appeal 600 times and it takes years before anything happens if at all.

People need to see the harsh reality,and it needs to be done publicly.For example,they are debating now in NY whether to show the full graphic images of September 11th in a memorial display they are planning.Imagine that,debating if they should show WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.They claim that it will make people angry at Muslims,and foster racist views.Are you fucking kidding me?American people need to see what happened on that day,over and over again.They need to feel rage inside,they need to teach it to there children.They need to HATE the people and religion that caused this.

My point is,we live in a sensitized society where lions and lambs live together in a peaceful forest.Reality is far different my friends.I do not feel bad for this kid,I do feel bad for his mother.He knew the penalties involved in that country and took a chance.Wrong place wrong time........



I agree with baldnazi on this one.. i feel hanging for drugs may be a lil bit too serious but if thats how singapore wants it and if its not a rule you'd wanna abide to, don't go there!

Singaporeans on a whole agree on the death penalty but what they feel can be worked on is that the court should take into account mitigating factors. Ok, the law says anything over 15g and you're dead.. the judge can't step in and take into account the reasons he did this. The rule is in black and white and as clear as can be. What singaporeans feel could be done better is to let ngyuen fight his case and let the judge have a say in his sentence instead of going by the book and sentence the guy to death.



#34
12-06-2005, 04:16 AM
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All drug laws are senseless. The reason for the black market drug trade is nothing more than supply and demand. If the demand for illegal drugs did not exist, no one would smuggle drugs. Our government, as well as other governments around the world, are too stupid to realize this, and waste resources fighting an unbeatable market. If the market was legitimized, drugs could be taxed like cigarettes and alcohol. The additional taxes could then be added into the federal budget to offset any potential additional health care costs caused by this, and the rest of the money used to help balance the budget.



#35
12-06-2005, 04:19 AM
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BTW, any country that looks the other way when some shmoe tries to buy a 10 year old prostitute but wants to kill someone for buying/selling drugs has some pretty fucked up morals.



#36
12-06-2005, 09:35 AM
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I know his brother is probably torn inside from this tragedy. I cannot say what I would or would not do for my blood if I thought the ends justify the means. I do think he paid the ultimate price for attempting to do what he felt was his right at that time. I am just glad the young fellow didn't have to be torchered to death by his brother's debtors.



#37
12-06-2005, 04:07 PM
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Im not afraid of saying this...
..I am from Singapore. I am staying here and yes I do suffered the same thing with too many rules over here.

You can choose to stop your business with Singapore. You can choose to not speak to any Singaporeans from now on. Its your choice. You can use any vulgarities against the Singapore Government too.

But you cant deny the fact that the boy deserves the punishment. You cant change the fact drug kills and he brought a lot of drugs. In addition, he admitted that he knew that trafficking drugs through Singapore customs is illegal. You also have to note that this boy choose not to reveal where the drugs are going to exactly. There is no room for judgement to be placed on the real facts or not. Its like you are holding a knife and you knew who was the killer but you choose not to provide the exact details of it.

Being empathy is good sometimes but being irrational isnt. Its the same thing as house rules. As long as the reason for entry is sensible, I always welcome my friends to visit me. But once you step into my house, you observe my rules. You do not steal or hurt any of my family members and if you do that, you get punished and by my house rules too. Got it?
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Last edited by denntit : 12-06-2005 at 04:21 PM.



#38
12-06-2005, 04:54 PM
denntit vbmenu_register("postmenu_146724", true);
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One more thing..
..let's say you met this guy who is holding some explosives that may explode anytime and he is standing in front of your house. (He is already in your property and you are in danger.) You do not know him at all and he claimed that he just needs to go through your backyard to bomb your neighbours place so that he has money to feed his hungry family.

Would you

(i) let him do so?
(ii) confiscate the explosives and punish him based on your house rules(given the fact that you have the right to do so)?
(iii) confiscate the explosives and give him money?

Think about it..
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#39
12-06-2005, 05:11 PM
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Dentit, your arguments don't apply. He was caught in no man's land (transit) with drugs that did not originate from Singapore and were not destined for Singapore. There would have been ZERO impact on Singapore.

And your argument that drugs kill - so do cigarettes and alcohol. Just because something is illegal on paper, doesn't make it morally correct.
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#40
12-06-2005, 05:12 PM
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We may not agree with Singapore's laws, but its their country. Plenty of people don't like many laws we have in the US and I don't see us changing them because some people in another country would like us to.

If you are really that upset with Singapore's laws, then move there, become a citizen and vote with your views in their governmental elections. Other than that my only advice would be to not smuggle drugs through Singapore which is a message I think they delivered quite effectively.

Also, I think this guy sat on death row for maybe 3 years? That is pretty swift justice considering we have piece-of-shit Tookie Williams who sat on death row for 20+ years after murdering 4 people and he aint dead yet. Not only is he not dead, but now some idiots want to give him the Nobel Peace Prize. I think I can hear Singapore laughing from here.
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12-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Big A vbmenu_register("postmenu_146728", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BALDNAZI
I remember the kid that was caned for spraying graffiti in Singapore,I wish they had a law like that in the US.If you spit on the street in Singapore,throw garbage on the ground,you will pay for it in some harsh way.And if you smuggle drugs you will be killed.I have no problem with their laws.Look at their major cities,clean,crime free,none of this bullshit we in the US have to deal with everyday.

There are countries in this world where if you steal,you will have your hand cut off.I have no problem with that.Its a fact that stealing,is not done so much in these countries.Who the fuck am I to impose my laws on another sovereign nation?

If you don't like their laws,don't go there,don't live there.

We think we are so great here in America,well I have news for you,It fucking sucks.The crime,3rd world immigration,drugs,the list goes on and on.It will never change because there is no accountability.You kill someone,ohhh its not my fault,its because my parents beat me as a kid,ok you get 15 years.What the fuck?People need to have a sense of responsibility in their actions.In America they do not.Its someone elses fault,someone elses problem.

I tell you what I do...public executions.This Tookie monkey motherfucker,I cut his balls off on national TV.Let people see what happens when you murder 4 people.I guarantee crime would go down exponentialy.The reason the death penalty is not a deterent in this country is because you can appeal 600 times and it takes years before anything happens if at all.

People need to see the harsh reality,and it needs to be done publicly.For example,they are debating now in NY whether to show the full graphic images of September 11th in a memorial display they are planning.Imagine that,debating if they should show WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.They claim that it will make people angry at Muslims,and foster racist views.Are you fucking kidding me?American people need to see what happened on that day,over and over again.They need to feel rage inside,they need to teach it to there children.They need to HATE the people and religion that caused this.

My point is,we live in a sensitized society where lions and lambs live together in a peaceful forest.Reality is far different my friends.I do not feel bad for this kid,I do feel bad for his mother.He knew the penalties involved in that country and took a chance.Wrong place wrong time........


As I said, eye for an eye is good - you murder, rape, abuse, you should be killed.
You break into my house, I will kill you.
You steal my shit, you should have your hand cut off.
That is all good.
All these are morally correct.

But it is morally incorrect to kill someone over drugs!
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#42
12-06-2005, 05:46 PM
denntit vbmenu_register("postmenu_146731", true);
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You have to prove that there is no impact my friend. Let me help you. Prove that by transiting, you are in no man's land. Then you prove that you are allowed to do anything illegal in no man's land. Then you prove that there is no impact on your neighbouring countries that has humans in it.

Lets get this right bro. He is not carrying medically helpful drugs. He is carrying health impending drugs. Not even steroids. You take once, you get addicted, your life is fucked up.

It isnt hard for someone who has the courage to traffick so much drugs to understand that, is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
Dentit, your arguments don't apply. He was caught in no man's land (transit) with drugs that did not originate from Singapore and were not destined for Singapore. There would have been ZERO impact on Singapore.

And your argument that drugs kill - so do cigarettes and alcohol. Just because something is illegal on paper, doesn't make it morally correct.


These are rules of a country. If he drug traffick in Malaysia or USA, the Singapore Government would have no control over it. But you stepped into the airport of Singapore, you have to obey the rules here. That's right. Here is an option for you: take it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
As I said, eye for an eye is good - you murder, rape, abuse, you should be killed.
You break into my house, I will kill you.
You steal my shit, you should have your hand cut off.
That is all good.
All these are morally correct.

But it is morally incorrect to kill someone over drugs!


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Last edited by denntit : 12-06-2005 at 05:48 PM.



#43
12-06-2005, 08:46 PM
IronMike vbmenu_register("postmenu_146737", true);
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...
I think the main - and irrefutable - point here is that the war on drugs does not work, has not worked and will not ever work.

Whether that be overt and covert government operations, policing operations, poitical moves, harsh penalties - including the death penalty - have clearly and obviously to all of us not done a bloody thing in stopping the spread of heroin and narcotics addiction. In our part of the world we are now flooded with massive amounts of extremely strong and cheap methamphs and derivatives. In Asia, where they are coming from, this carries the death penalty. Here, heavy sentences are being imposed. But guess what? While demand is high supply will always be there to fill the niche.

So who is the war on and how do you win it when both parties - the suppliers and the users - want to sustain the trade? The only way is to convince one party to stop the trade. And being that the supplier is hardly going to be convinced of that, we either need to look at educating potential and active users or trying some form of harm minimisation.

Also, and here's the thing that bothers me, even in my own country the narcotics trade I would estimate to be at about the equivalent of 50% of our country's GDP. I think in the US it is about 33%. That is a huge proportion of business being done which is not contributing to taxes, infrastructure, the future of communities or public good. A MASSIVE amount of money lining the pockets of suppliers. I'd rather see that money brought into the mainstream so we can all benefit from it - and put some of it to use in helping people stop taking narcotics.

IronMike

PS - an eye for an eye works fine for me - when justice is exacted by the victim (or someone close to them). Retaliating with lethal force is ok depending on the wrong done to you, but a stranger exacting lethal force on someone who has done him no wrong is outside those laws.
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#44
12-06-2005, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denntit
You have to prove that there is no impact my friend. Let me help you. Prove that by transiting, you are in no man's land. Then you prove that you are allowed to do anything illegal in no man's land. Then you prove that there is no impact on your neighbouring countries that has humans in it.

Lets get this right bro. He is not carrying medically helpful drugs. He is carrying health impending drugs. Not even steroids. You take once, you get addicted, your life is fucked up.

It isnt hard for someone who has the courage to traffick so much drugs to understand that, is it?



As opposed to cigarettes and alcohol??

Quote:
Originally Posted by denntit

These are rules of a country. If he drug traffick in Malaysia or USA, the Singapore Government would have no control over it. But you stepped into the airport of Singapore, you have to obey the rules here. That's right. Here is an option for you: take it or leave it.


Agreed there. But, killing a human being over drugs is still immoral! That is the argument here!
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#45
12-07-2005, 04:02 PM
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HE WAS JUST THEMULE
MULE


Remember guys the people actually carrying drugs through airports and customs are Mules

They are not dealers the drugs are not theirs

They are people in desperate need for money who are being used by the actual dealers

When given large amounts of drugs by a dealer their is usually some kind of insurance policy

Cooperation with authorities or running of with the merchandise would cancel that policy which could very well put your loved ones at risk

And Dr Livingston your some kind of fucking Canadian or something



#46
12-08-2005, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespa103
And Dr Livingston your some kind of fucking Canadian or something


I am from the independent state of Vatican City and we don't fuck.
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#47
12-08-2005, 03:06 AM
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100% Agreed Big A
Glad to be AMERICAN! Horrible tradgedy for this young man. God bless him and his family. wedge


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
As opposed to cigarettes and alcohol??



Agreed there. But, killing a human being over drugs is still immoral! That is the argument here!





#48
12-08-2005, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. livingstone
I am from the independent state of Vatican City and we don't fuck.


So you are a preist? I didn't think that non religious people can be citizens of Vatican City.
Nice tax haven BTW.
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#49
12-08-2005, 11:12 AM
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I have been following this thread since Big A originally posted it and I have read and observed everybodies views. There are compelling arguements for both sides but you have to realize while you may or may not agree with a countries laws, if you visit that country you have to abide by them. Maany americans (myself included) at times take out way of life here for granted and we sometimes fail to realize how lucky we really have, or in some peoples opinons dont have it.

Whatver your feeling on this subject matter is, the point that this all comes down to is that if you dont like it dont go to singapore but just becuase your from the US, england, austrialia or any other free country doesnt give you the right to just walk into any country you want, do what you please, and think its ok.

Whether the guy deserved to be hung or didnt is not the point. Point is he knew the penalty if he was caught in singapore and chose to smuggle anyway. He took his chances and his luck ran out.


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Old 06-16-2007, 03:10 PM   #2
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killing that kid over some drugs was plain fucked up...

but singapore is heaven on earth there is virtually no crime there...i dont agree with the kid being executed...but id move to singapore with a big smile on my face...

the kids brother should have gone to the police to report the threat on his brothers life and not go smuggle narcotics to pay off his bros drug tab or gambling debts...

im sorry the poor kid got executed over this i really am...
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