[VtLe67WR]

I apologize if this post isn't very lucid and hard to follow. I'm wrestling with concepts and trying to express something without going too far into personal details.

Basically I feel my life is good. I say this in comparison to those who I know are truly suffering. I really have to look at my life in a vacuum before I can recognize the suffering I do in fact experience.

So yes that's the First Noble Truth. I recognize I am suffering.

The Second Noble Truth purports that suffering comes from craving, desire and longing.

A lot of my suffering I realize is because I am not living up to what I desire in life.

Like I said, my life is good. I am fortunate enough to have the time to wrestle with philosophy and have the time to also wrestle with depression. One of the symptoms of depression is sleeping too much.

I'm just going to quote from here http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Tal...T-MAR03-TS.htm the following

And that is the Third Noble Truth. That's 'the Cessation of the Suffering'. It only happens for a moment, and then, your mind will go right back to it. But, when you start to see this as part of a process, instead of tightening down around it and trying to control it, you start letting the process to go the way it's going to go. The moments that you let go and relax and come back to your meditation object, the feeling of happiness, making a wish for your happiness, will begin to last for a little bit longer.

At first , your mind is going to keep running back very, very quickly and that's suffering and that's hard. But, as you persist, as you continue to see that this is what your mind is doing and this is what your body is doing and you relax into it, and come back, then you'll begin to stay on your wholesome object for longer periods of time.

And it starts to change your perspective. It starts to change your view of the world. You start to see that mind closes down around some feelings, and, mind being what it has been from time immemorial, likes to think about those feelings. I slept too much today. The difference is though I woke up and felt good. I didn't care that I wasted the day sleep. I experienced a happiness and not a depression because I wasn't desiring anything except to simply my body do what it wishes.

So I have my own struggle and my own personal suffering. I can look out around me and trivialize my suffering - but it's still very real to me.

I've been realizing the first noble truth. I recognize that a desire not to sleep only causes me suffering (thus the Second Noble Truth).

I've been recognizing the Third Noble truth as highlighted in what I just quoted.

I have days like today where I slept too much but I wake up and simply don't care. I enjoy my time with my family. I enjoy the sunshine. I enjoy the beauty of life.

Like in the quote I'm having moments where my suffering ceases to exist.

I recognize that for me to attain what I want in life I need to deal with my suffering and my depression.

The main question I have though is - I desire the end of suffering but the source of suffering is desire.

I desire not to sleep but this desire to not sleep causes me suffering so I just went with the flow of it.

Is this simply the battle between learning to stop your thoughts and learning to simply accept your thoughts?

I know this is probably a rookie contradiction and you're probably tired of hearing it - but to desire the end of suffering - does that not cause suffering in itself?

[Rqqneujr]

There is a lot of peace in acceptance. In my experience acceptance is often accepting how
our suffering arises, then this helps with the letting go.

[syncFisee]

There is a lot of peace in acceptance. In my experience acceptance is often accepting how our suffering arises, then this helps with the letting go.

Thanks.

I'm learning to accept the way things are. I think the path to truly be where I want to be can be found in accepting my limitations, accepting my shortcomings, accepting my personal struggle and seeing what it is I can do within my own realm of personal power.

[CefGemYAffews]

Yes, timing and the old F & P ... faith ( as in confidence ) and patience plays an important role also ... especially when I don't " feel " it.

[Corryikilelet]

I first read that as faith and "practice" and for me right now I need to make patience a practice.

I have ambitions through the roof and patience is what I need to practice.

[timgillmoreeztf]

I know this is probably a rookie contradiction and you're probably tired of hearing it - but to desire the end of suffering - does that not cause suffering in itself?

hello GT

my answer to your question is "no"

there are two kinds of desire: (1) craving, which is the subject of the 2nd Noble Truth; and (2) right intention, which is the 2nd factor of the Eightfold Path

a metaphor about renunciation can help us understand the two kinds of desire. a person has a spear, sword or other kind of weapon in their hand. it takes a large & forceful amount of desire to thrust that weapon to harm or kill. or it takes a small & gentle amount of desire, to open up one's hand and let that weapon go, to lay down that sword & shield

everything we do requires an act of desire or intention. some intentions lead to suffering while other intentions lead to freedom

kind regards

[LoloLibia]

Is this simply the battle between learning to stop your thoughts and learning to simply accept your thoughts?

I know this is probably a rookie contradiction and you're probably tired of hearing it - but to desire the end of suffering - does that not cause suffering in itself?

Maybe that's the wrong battle? Maybe the right battle ought to be learning which thoughts bring you closer to enlightenment and which thoughts take you away from it?

[stoneeZef]

hello GT

my answer to your question is "no"

there are two kinds of desire: (1) craving, which is the subject of the 2nd Noble Truth; and (2) right intention, which is the 2nd factor of the Eightfold Path

a metaphor about renunciation can help us understand the two kinds of desire. a person has a spear, sword or other kind of weapon in their hand. it takes a large & forceful amount of desire to thrust that weapon to harm or kill. or it takes a small & gentle amount of desire, to open up one's hand and let that weapon go, to lay down that sword & shield

everything we do requires an act of desire or intention. some intentions lead to suffering while other intentions lead to freedom

kind regards

That's actually a good metaphor. Really made me think. I can still argue though that letting go of the weapon is still a struggle in itself. Letting go of our attachments is a journey.

Maybe that's the wrong battle? Maybe the right battle ought to be learning which thoughts bring you closer to enlightenment and which thoughts take you away from it?

This is a good idea. I just need to be careful to not be suddenly dividing and conquering everything as beneficial towards enlightenment and not - and not just simply accepting my thoughts as they are and not labeling them.

[Elelaytet]

Hi Gerrardthor,

There's a resource 'Handbook for Mankind' by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu which you might find helpful .

http://www.buddhanet.net/budasa2.htm

with kind regards

Aloka