[Amirmsheesk]

Recently someone shared an article which really drove me to start seriously learning about Buddhism. It was an article with graphic pictures of a horrible act of animal cruelty by a couple of kids which I won't share the details of here. It greatly disturbed and upset me and, when I contemplated why this was so, I realized it was because I felt helpless to help the poor animal. That really pushed me to want to learn more about Buddhism to one day gain the power to stop such suffering.

But it also presented another problem for me. It was easy to feel compassion for the animal, but I struggle to feel any true compassion for the kids who did it, when they did so solely for amusement. Yes, I am aware that it will leave a nasty karmic imprint, but as much as I want to, I cannot feel sorry for it. I feel justified that they will eventually get what's coming to them so to speak, I want them to need to deal with the karmic implications of the act as a sense of justice. I don't want to harm the kids personally myself, but I want them to feel the consequences of their actions, and that in turn creates some anger in me (which is a dead give away that this isn't a good way to feel).

Does anyone have any advice on how to develop compassion for people who perform such acts? It's the same for child abuse or anything else I consider a truly horrific act. It's difficult as, while I acknowledge that a person is not the act, they are still the ones who performed the act and should feel the consequences of such a thing. Any help someone could provide would be greatly appreciated, this is something that has bothered me for quite some time and when I try to meditate on it I just go around in circles and wind up making myself angry both at the act and at myself for not being able to figure it out.

[gkruCRi1]

You can practice Metta meditation as shown in this youtube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3_lqd4Sgfc.

I personally think it's helpful to look at why they might've done this. You said they did it solely for amusement. I doubt this is the whole truth. People who do things like this have usually suffered a lot already in their life. They could've been victims in the past, people do what they know. The action of animal cruelty also shows that they have no understanding of what will actually help themselves and make them happy. They're misguided and you should pity them.

[corriffuniee]

Thanks for the link, he explains things really clearly! I'll have to check out the other videos when I get home, and shall try that meditation tonight as well.

I think my biggest problem is while I can intellectually understand that and, to some extent I can even fool myself into thinking that's what I believe, when I look deeper I find that this still isn't the case. Maybe it's an issue of separating the act from the person. When I say they did it for amusement, that is what they told the police when questioned about it, and were laughing as they explained it, still finding it funny even after the animal had to be put down. The act itself would not have been an impulsive thing and would have required some thought and planning before hand. I pity that they don't seem to understand the consequences of their actions but I don't pity that they will eventually feel the consequences... if that makes sense. It's sort of hard to describe when the feelings themselves are conflicting. I generally find it easy to feel compassion for the vast majority of people, it only seems to be things like this that set me off.

I will try the meditation though, and let you know how it goes, see if I have any aha! moments. Thanks

[cakaeroryrere]

Thanks for the link, he explains things really clearly! I'll have to check out the other videos when I get home, and shall try that meditation tonight as well.

I think my biggest problem is while I can intellectually understand that and, to some extent I can even fool myself into thinking that's what I believe, when I look deeper I find that this still isn't the case. Maybe it's an issue of separating the act from the person. When I say they did it for amusement, that is what they told the police when questioned about it, and were laughing as they explained it, still finding it funny even after the animal had to be put down. The act itself would not have been an impulsive thing and would have required some thought and planning before hand. I pity that they don't seem to understand the consequences of their actions but I don't pity that they will eventually feel the consequences... if that makes sense. It's sort of hard to describe when the feelings themselves are conflicting. I generally find it easy to feel compassion for the vast majority of people, it only seems to be things like this that set me off.

I will try the meditation though, and let you know how it goes, see if I have any aha! moments. Thanks

We have to know what compassion is. And in your case, there are two sides of your compassion; one side is for the animals you are talking about, and the other side which is the more difficult one is for the kids who are acting very cruelly toward the animals.

You might as well do the same to the kids...Then what is holding you from this is the compassion...

http://www.buddhanet.net/ans57.htm

With compassion,

[77chawzence]

By inflicting suffering and harm, the inflicter is also harmed and in this way the individual doing this action can also be seen as a victim - the laughing shows how distorted their understanding is. Hope this is of some help.

[boltondd]

Reading this thread, I was just musing and I hope these musings may help...

I've been thinking in the past about the justice system. These thoughts had been prompted by numerous debates about "responsibility" of the criminal (was the criminal "free" to act, or was s/he "led by the trauma of past abuse"), where proponents of a rather "vengeful" justice were opposing proponents of "he was not responsible because his actions were determined by abuse he suffered in the past, hence he should not be punished".

I was puzzled because, personally, I have long be a proponent of "all our actions are completely determined by the context, events and thoughts that have preceded" (which does not prevent me from having a notion of freedom but this is another issue) and in this context, nobody should be condemned by justice if only "free people" should be condemned, which does not seem more "right" than vengeful people wanting the worst nightmares imparted upon criminals.

In the end, I decided that "vengeance" had no space in the justice system, but that seeking to define people who were "free and responsible" and people who were "led by past abuse" to decide who to condemn and who to absolve was also absurd. On the other hand, I decided that three things matter in the justice system:

- compensating the victim for what was suffered, if at all possible
- preventing harm to the broader public
- supporting, in as much as possible, a positive change in the person who committed those acts.

This does not tell us anything as to what sentence justice should give - maybe the sentence will be felt to be harsh by the criminal, but it will be devoid of a will to avenge oneself, as its purpose is threefold: helping victims, helping the criminal, helping the broader society.

Coming back to your story, and trying to make the link with the above, you may have a hard time feeling compassionate for these kids because (1) you do not see anything "lovable" in these kids, while we may feel compassion for other people who commit inappropriate acts if we can first feel love for them for what positive traits we recognize in them (2) positive feelings may seem to contradict your sentiment of justice (that they "should get their comeuppance for what they did").

If you think of these kids in another way, though, and feel "Oh, I really wish that these kids will change and become better people", for their good, the good of their victim, and the good of all other people at large, then this, I believe, will no longer feel like it is contradicting your sentiment of justice. Furthermore, it does not require you to see anything lovable in these kids or to wish that the rest of their life happens with no "karma" showing them what was wrong (nor does it mean that you should wish for "karma" to hit them)... It requires you, though, to wish what is best for them (and animals, and society), whatever it is, rather than wish to "avenge" anyone.

Actually, I was recently struggling to find any positive feeling in me for a colleague of mine, who is not just not very competent, but is also "very full of himself"... OK, his case is far less bad than that of these kids, but as I was thinking of what I may answer to you, I started thinking about him, and I feel I can feel at last more positive towards him, not by loving his positive sides (he certainly has plenty, but I do not generally see them) but by wishing him good - that is, wishing him that he will change for his greater good and that of others!

I hope this helps, and sorry, this may as well not be Buddhist philosophy, but for sure it is my thinking, and it may work.

Binou

[smirnoffdear]

Wow, I come back here to post an update and there are all these wonderful replies! Thank you so much! I attempted to meditate on this this morning without having read all these other replies and... well I can't say it was completely successful at first, my mind was going in all the familiar circles. And then I brought myself back to my friends. One friend in particular who I am very close to and has done a lot for me was also in the special forces in a war. During which time I know he killed a lot of people and took pride in his doing so.

Naturally I don't like that, but I don't hate the person and I know he's done a lot of good since and is still working on turning his life for the better and I wish him all the best for it. Then transfering that will on to the kids... well I can't say it worked completely, I still wanted them to feel the effects of their actions, but at the same time, I didn't hate or feel anger towards them for the first time. It'll take a bit of time and practice, but any progress is good progress.

Binou, what you wrote resonated particularly as it's thoughts I have often entertained in the past as well. There was a documentary on tv many years ago when I was still living with my parents. There was a Buddhist monk talking, I don't think it was the Dalai Lama himself but I could be wrong, it was some time ago. Anyway they were talking about a criminal, a rapist I think, who, instead of going through the normal justice system as we in the west would expect, he was sent to this monastery to be taught.

I remember dad vehemently saying that such an action was rubbish and would result in the criminal merely saying what he needed to to get out and become a repeat offender (which is similar to his thoughts on rehabilitation centres and the like). And I disagreed with him and believed that it was a fantastic idea since surely if he knew how his actions had an affect on the victim and the victim's family and friends, and his own family and friends, he wouldn't do it again.

It's something that's always been in the back of my mind but I had forgotten about. And transferring that wish for them to learn from their actions and become better people, maybe even work to prevent others from doing such things. It will still take time, but that helped a lot, so thank you!

[SHpuntik]

Moderator Note:

Dear Binou and emeraldeye,

I edited your posts so to separate long paragraphs making them easy to read. I hope this do not bother you.Some members like Aloka and myself suffer from migraine which makes it difficult to read large blocks of font on a screen

Please continue with the discussion...