[tramadolwithall]

I am new here,
trying to discern if Buddhism is for me or not.

I posed this issue on my intro but this is possibly the place for a debate.

One thing that has stopped me exploring Buddhism in the past is the concept of celibacy. But this I am confused about.

I read a couple of days back that in Tibet, Vajrayana is happy to permit an unusual degree of sexual license among the members of its sangha community of monks, and Ching Tu in China rejects celibacy [Michael Jordan]

Aloka-D response in the introduction was that "In the modern world, those who profess to be Buddhist monks and nuns whist having sex with others, are breaking the Vinaya Vows of the Buddha" something like what I thought before a trip to China a few years back.

So is MJ wrong in his assertions about cellebacy and sexual license in those particular schools?
Was he perhaps intending to say this past tense rather than present? or is it Ok for some schools to break the Vinaya Vows?

[Xzmwskxn]

Hi Andy,

Your thread has been moved to General Buddhist Discussions Forum. Buddhism for Beginners's aim is for giving general information and advice.

Please, go ahead posting...

Thanks

[Breilopmil]

So is MJ wrong in his assertions about cellebacy and sexual license in those particular schools?

Hi Andy,

Can you give a link to the article you're talking about, please, because it will be difficult for anyone to comment otherwise.

with kind wishes,

Aloka.

[GentlieGant]

I'm celibate, for over 2 years. When sexuality ends all that energy gets focused, elsewhere, other than sex, which is alot. And I don't watch tv.

[griddle]

Hi Andy,

Can you give a link to the article you're talking about, please, because it will be difficult for anyone to comment otherwise.

with kind wishes,

Aloka.

Alas I am not able to do that as it is from a book. Buddha. His life in images by Micael Jordan

For any one who has this book or sees it in a library etc. The aspect on Tibet is on page 149.
In retrospect this was past tense however the fuller text saying: "Padmasabhava had brought with him a distinct form of Mahayana Buddhism known as Vajrayana. One of the more liberal disciplines, Vajrayana leaned toeards ritual and the majic of Tantrism and was happy to permit an unusual degree of sexual licence among the members of its sangha community of monks."

Regarding the aspect on Ching Tu its on page 176.
"Ching Tu, which is closely allied to Zen, focusses on the Amitabha dhyanibuddha as the main object of worship through which to reach paradise and generally tends to be more popular with lay people, not least because it rejects monastic life and celibacy."

[toyboy]

I'm celibate, for over 2 years. When sexuality ends all that energy gets focused, elsewhere, other than sex, which is alot. And I don't watch tv.

Yes I realise the degree of distraction! But of course we all come here when seeking to understand with different views on sexual matters.

What I am interested in clarifying though is what to me seems like an apparent difference in philosophy between the various schools buddhism on this point and indeed if it is how does do the schools view other schoolswith such different views? For that matter how do monks or bodhisattvas or other enlightened parties view these different schools of thought in relation to this kind of issue?

[suiviouse]

"Padmasabhava had brought with him a distinct form of Mahayana Buddhism known as Vajrayana. One of the more liberal disciplines, Vajrayana leaned toeards ritual and the majic of Tantrism and was happy to permit an unusual degree of sexual licence among the members of its sangha community of monks."

Hi Andy,

Padmasambhava(Guru Rinpoche) took Tantric Vajrayana Buddhism to Tibet around the 9th Century. The Tibetan Buddhism practised in the Chinese ruled Tibet of the modern era is not the same, and is monitored very closely by the government.

I don't know anything about 'Ching Tu', because I've never heard of it, sorry.

.

[NETvoyne]

Hi Andy,

Padmasambhava(Guru Rinpoche) took Tantric Vajrayana Buddhism to Tibet around the 9th Century. The Tibetan Buddhism practised in the Chinese ruled Tibet of the modern era is not the same, and is monitored very closely by the government.

I don't know anything about 'Ching Tu', because I've never heard of it, sorry.

.

Yes Ching Tu similarly appeared in China 960 - 1279 CE. I am not quoting any kind of government corruption here.

I realise things are not as we would have them in Tibet or indeed elsewhere in China. Nothing remains the same however so we know this fear of the government will pass eventualy. So are you saying that the modern view in Tibet is different about premitting an unusual degree of sexual license in Tibet and if so, it is the case because the government has interfered with the religion?

[socialkiiii]

.

I realise things are not as we would have them in Tibet or indeed elsewhere in China. Nothing remains the same however so we know this fear of the government will pass eventualy. So are you saying that the modern view in Tibet is different about premitting an unusual degree of sexual license in Tibet and if so, it is the case because the government has interfered with the religion?

I think that what people in Tibet do now, is likely to be very different from their culture before the 1950's, other than that I wouldn't like to speculate, sorry.

.

[elects]

Hi Andy,

In accordance to the teachings of Buddha, celibacy is a consequence of the practice of meditation; it is a normal result of an ease mind that has given up the entanglements with ordinary sensual pleasures.

A lay practitioner chooses the monastic life because a needed stage in his evolution toward full awakening.

To chose monastic life -because celibacy- is done (or at least should be) on account of deep meditative experiences and deep penetration of how things are.

But the Buddha allow sexual practice to lay practitioners anytime she or he refrains fully from sexual misconduct.

Also, many lay practitioners can find celibacy as something that fulfils the realization of the path.

A meditative mind can find the end of craving, even, for the sexual drive.