[sanddrareyk]

What is the Buddhist perspective of self?

I have always looked at self as being the naked ape.

In that we tend to take various Ideas/Beliefs/Knowledge and view them as being self, when in fact these ideas delude self.

As such I have always looked at discovering self hood not as finding something new, but as coming to realize and see beyond that which is not ourselves.

Untying knots so to speak.

I would be most grateful for input on this issue.

[illiderob]

What is the Buddhist perspective of self?

I have always looked at self as being the naked ape.

In that we tend to take various Ideas/Beliefs/Knowledge and view them as being self, when in fact these ideas delude self.

As such I have always looked at discovering self hood not as finding something new, but as coming to realize and see beyond that which is not ourselves.

Untying knots so to speak.

I would be most grateful for input on this issue.

Hi Bobo,

In Buddhism we acknowledge that we don't have a permanent and unchanging "self".

'Not-self' is known as 'anatta'.

You might like to read what the Buddha had to say in Sutta SN 22.9 :


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....059.than.html


with kind wishes,

A-D

[casinobonusa]

bobo, I think developing insight and wisdom is somewhat like untying knots, too, in the sense that much of the most important things to do is to un-do what has already been done. That is, the way society has taught us to habitually view and think about the world, as well as ourselves, is deeply flawed. The idea or perspective that we are beings who are born, live some number of years and then die, all the while embedded in an outside universe, is a flawed perspective. It doesn't match observation and experience. There is nothing about the newborn that is identical to the child, the adult or the dying person. No supernatural spirit, no ghost of any sort in the machine has ever been observed, so why believe in it?

Ultimately, it's up to the individual to develop insight into what it means to be, and how it is what it is. Fingers (words) can point you in the right direction, but be careful to to fixate too much on the fingers. Head off in the direction they point and see for yourself what's there.

[Bigroza]

I have always looked at self as being the naked ape.

In that we tend to take various Ideas/Beliefs/Knowledge and view them as being self, when in fact these ideas delude self.

hi Bobo

the Buddha taught "selfing" is a mental tendency each human being is born with

as you expressed, this tendency of mind "takes" or "appropriates" things and views those things as being "self" & "belonging to self"

for example, a child does not do anything to bring about its existence. a child is born from the genetics and activity of its parents. yet when a child reaches a certain age, it naturally views its body as "me", even though the body is just composed of genetic material

the body continues to grow due to be nourished by external physical food, such as rice, corn, wheat, bananas, apples, oranges, etc

although the body is growing due to external physical matter, the mind thinks: "I am growing; I am getting fat", etc

so "self" or "selfing" is a tendency of mind that identifies with things it did not create itself

selfing thinks "my mother", "my father", "my house", "my computer", "my body", "my mind", "my wife", "my husband", "my job", etc

this is a natural part of life because individual & social life naturally requires such identification, otherwise there would be chaos

so Buddhism encourages the individual to investigate this selfing process, to see it is only a convention rather than ultimately true

why? because the mind's grasping & appropriating of things as "I", "me" and "mine" is the root of suffering

when we regard something as "us" and "ours", when this thing changes & is lost, the mind will suffer, just like your possessiveness is possibly due to an underlying fear of loss

kind regards


Element

The Buddha said:

Now, how is one afflicted in mind?

There is the case where an uninstructed person assumes form (the body) to be the self or the self as possessing form or form as in the self or the self as in form. He is seized with the idea that 'I am form' or 'Form is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his form changes & alters and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

He assumes feeling to be the self or the self as possessing feeling or feeling as in the self or the self as in feeling. He is seized with the idea that 'I am feeling' or 'Feeling is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his feeling changes & alters and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

He assumes perception to be the self or the self as possessing perception or perception as in the self or the self as in perception. He is seized with the idea that 'I am perception' or 'Perception is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his perception changes & alters and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

He assumes (mental) fabrications to be the self or the self as possessing fabrications or fabrications as in the self or the self as in fabrications. He is seized with the idea that 'I am fabrications' or 'Fabrications are mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his fabrications change & alter and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over their change & alteration.

He assumes consciousness [including what is seen, heard, smelt, tasted, touched, etc] to be the self or the self as possessing consciousness or consciousness as in the self or the self as in consciousness. He is seized with the idea that 'I am consciousness' or 'Consciousness is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his consciousness changes & alters and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

This, householder, is how one is afflicted in mind.

Nakulapita Sutta: To Nakulapita

[lorryuncori]

So self is that part of us that is not one, does not change, does not suffer and does not die?

[TerriLS]

the Buddha taught it was the selfless state of mind that does not change, does not suffer and does not die

The Buddha said:

'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow. And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.'

Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said?

'I am' is a construing. 'I am this' is a construing. 'I shall be' is a construing. 'I shall not be' is a construing.

Construing is a disease, construing is a cancer, construing is an arrow. By going beyond all construing, he is said to be a sage at peace.

Furthermore, a sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die, is unagitated and is free from longing. He has nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not aging, will he die? Not dying, will he be agitated? Not being agitated, for what will he long?

It was in reference to this that it was said, 'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow. And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.'

Dhatu-vibhanga Sutta: An Analysis of the Properties