[tooratrack]

How do you regard atheistic Buddhism? In terms of infinity is this seen as a perpetual growing that entails the nuances of "good" and "evil". While suffering can be roughly determined from the secular, mundane, illusionary? level any morality ensconced within an ever evolving spiritual ethic must be gauged only through personal experience, with doubt always a strong factor. As for Nirvana, do you see this as an absolute state or a series of seemingly absolute states, but always in a state of flux. Can Karma be seen as a "perfect" system. thank you~~~~~~~~~~Murchovski.

[vigraxtru]

Hi Murchovski, Lots to think about there, only time to make one brief coment right now ..... for me, Buddhism is non theistic - there is no need to have or not have belief in God or Gods to practice. Over time practice has helped me move from a self focused perspective toward a life focused outlook - in which all actions are interdependant and there is no room for a God ( as I understood God from living in a Christian country and practicing as a Catholic, many years ago ).

[PhilipBartew]

Murchovski, there's a lot packed into that one post! Wow! Maybe if you unpacked it a bit, separating and giving more details about each of the questions, we would be better able to respond with on-target ideas.

[Nurfzerne]

Yes it is all a bit convoluted.A more pointed question! Do you see the law of karma as an ethical metaphysical version of physical evolution.
Thanks ~~Murchovski

[HaroTaure]

Yes it is all a bit convoluted.A more pointed question! Do you see the law of karma as an ethical metaphysical version of physical evolution.
Thanks ~~Murchovski

Monster question... and I'm about to de-construct it, if you don't mind Firstly, an in-depth look at Buddha's teachings reveals that he rejected metaphysics outright. This comes as a bit of a shock, considering most people think that Buddhism is replete with that kind of thing.

This is quite a challenge because if Buddha wasn't pushing a metaphysical line, then what was he doing? It takes some investigating to uncover that but it is radical and quite liberating when you do.

Secondly, karma is considered to be a 'just-desserts' kind of mechanism, whereby bad guys get their comeuppance and we all get to go someplace nice. Buddha taught a more profound truth than that. He taught "becoming". Well worth taking time out to investigate the implications of that too.

[Misebeita]

Namaste,

My own opinion is to leave trying to label parts of Buddhism and just practise. Andyrobyn is right - Buddhism is nontheistic, belief or non belief in God/dess is not necessary to practise so why worry about it?

In metta,
Raven

[Enrobrorb]

Yes it is all a bit convoluted.A more pointed question! Do you see the law of karma as an ethical metaphysical version of physical evolution.
Thanks ~~Murchovski

No, I don't, because Darwin's work on natural selection and evolution was done many, many centuries after kamma was conceptualized. There's no possible connection between them, unless you believe in time travel.

[Slchtjgb]

Monster question... and I'm about to de-construct it, if you don't mind Firstly, an in-depth look at Buddha's teachings reveals that he rejected metaphysics outright. This comes as a bit of a shock, considering most people think that Buddhism is replete with that kind of thing.

This is quite a challenge because if Buddha wasn't pushing a metaphysical line, then what was he doing? It takes some investigating to uncover that but it is radical and quite liberating when you do.

Secondly, karma is considered to be a 'just-desserts' kind of mechanism, whereby bad guys get their comeuppance and we all get to go someplace nice. Buddha taught a more profound truth than that. He taught "becoming". Well worth taking time out to investigate the implications of that too.

Thank you, I like the "becoming" aspect.

[IRMartin]

As for Nirvana, do you see this as an absolute state or a series of seemingly absolute states, but always in a state of flux.

Can Karma be seen as a "perfect" system. thank you~~~~~~~~~~Murchovski.

Nirvana is the element of absolute always existing stillness, which the always existing perpetual flux flows within

Karma means 'action', which is created by thought intention (becoming)

Because thought intention & becoming are subject to flux & diminishing appeal (unsatisfactoriness), karma cannot be perfect

But the karma of 'non-karma' or 'non-doing' (letting go) can bring a mental experience of Nirvana perfection

Buddha taught there are two elements: (1) conditioned-fluxed elements; and (2) the unconditioned non-flux element

Buddha taught one skilled in the elements is skilled in the Dharma

Kind regards

[HBPujWBe]

Okay, so there's no need to believe in a God, but do we have to embrace concepts like reincarnation and stuff? Cos I don't believe in ANYTHING that is supernatural.

[alfredtaniypnx]

Welcome to the group, torrente .....and no, you don't have to believe in anything supernatural in order to practice Dhamma !

with kind wishes,

Aloka -D

[BaselBimbooooo]

Welcome to the group, torrente .....and no, you don't have to believe in anything supernatural in order to practice Dhamma !

with kind wishes,

Aloka -D

That's odd because i was on e-sangha forums a year or two ago and they said it was an integral part of the practice. So I gave up on it. Now I'm back i guess.

[Dkavtbek]

That's odd because i was on e-sangha forums a year or two ago and they said it was an integral part of the practice. So I gave up on it. Now I'm back i guess.

Ah yes.....e-sangha.........

[FailiaFelay]

That's odd because i was on e-sangha forums a year or two ago and they said it was an integral part of the practice. So I gave up on it. Now I'm back i guess.

It may be an integral part of their practice. Doesn't necessarily mean it has to be part of yours.

"Buddhism" applies to a large variety of traditions and practices, some of which are more supernatural in their orientation than others. It might be useful to talk with people who share your perspective and ask them if they have found their practice beneficial even though they don't subscribe to such beliefs.

That way, you might have a better data set available.

[Ngwkgczx]

Ah yes.....e-sangha.........

You don't like them?

[DadaSeeva]

It may be an integral part of their practice. Doesn't necessarily mean it has to be part of yours.

"Buddhism" applies to a large variety of traditions and practices, some of which are more supernatural in their orientation than others. It might be useful to talk with people who share your perspective and ask them if they have found their practice beneficial even though they don't subscribe to such beliefs.

That way, you might have a better data set available.

Ok, so what kind of buddhist are you?

[jdynwa]

Okay, so there's no need to believe in a God, but do we have to embrace concepts like reincarnation and stuff? Cos I don't believe in ANYTHING that is supernatural.

Good News: I don't, and you don't have to, either. The Buddha's teachings don't have anything to do with beliefs in reincarnation and other superstitions.

[f29sXS07]

Okay, so there's no need to believe in a God, but do we have to embrace concepts like reincarnation and stuff? Cos I don't believe in ANYTHING that is supernatural.

Welcome to BWB torrente,

...then you can find the teachings of Buddha appropriate for you. The teachings of the Buddha do not need necessarily the believe in something supernatural to practice them.

[RgtrsKfR]

That's odd because i was on e-sangha forums a year or two ago and they said it was an integral part of the practice. So I gave up on it. Now I'm back i guess.

Whoever "they" is, "they" lied.

[UMATURLIN]

Okay, so there's no need to believe in a God, but do we have to embrace concepts like reincarnation and stuff? Cos I don't believe in ANYTHING that is supernatural.

The term reincarnation evokes wishful thinking for something to hold on. Something "permanent". Many Tibetan records do also use Incarnation in place of Re-Incarnation. Others again call it Re-Appearance.
Buddhism is not the only philosophy that struggles with these terms as we all are aware of. The terms are common in many pagan believes.
Maybe re-incarnation is not supernatural? No one knows for sure. It just may be as natural as any other phenomena that we can observe by studying the science of natural history. Who knows what a next generation of scientists discover about it?

We do not need to "embrace" anything when following the teachings of the Dharma. The Buddha asked his followers to be open minded and critical...even to the very teachings of the Buddha.

Important is that we are aware of our own minds confusion. Buddhism points at the mind of mankind as the source of all that matters.